Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


Not only that, but they quite often try to put you off, or they make stuff up (find a problem) to get you back to the hospital... I'm sorry but I do not trust them. Especially now after my experience!

I phoned them and told them she had given birth etc. I don't see why they would have any concerns about that. It certainly doesn't warrant coming round with the police to force their "care" upon you. Scaring my other kids in the process.

You are kind of right though, my partner has said if she were to do it again this time she would not involve them at all.

I'm not sure why you are so defensive towards us, we are only trying to give you another perspective.

Naturally you feel invaded by these people and betrayed by their lies, but since you were on their radar for a considerable amount of your partners pregnancy - not seeing the baby is bound to set off alarm bells.

Sometimes exams performed hurt a bit, it's natural. Babies lie in all sorts of funny positions and can make both internal and external examinations uncomfortable, this pain is only going to be exaggerated if you are already scared witless about germs and god knows what.

I'm not going to butt horns about homebirths, I couldn't care less if someone wants to squat under a tree during the full moon to the tune of their own mariachi band - but mother and baby needs a quick check over afterwards by a trained professional.

Obviously we have our wires crossed somewhere. In the UK women are entitled to have home births even hands off type (midwife is present but stays in the kitchen drinking tea unless she is called) and have a Doula to look out for her throughout her pregnancy and birth, usually these Doula's have undertaken some training themselves.
I have a friend that has had both hands off homebirths and unassisted (matter of fact the only time she came close to a hospital birth was with her first and she never got as close as the hospital car park), the children were still checked over after birth and a midwife popped around to check on them daily as is normal for the first week.

As bad as our midwife shortage is we still have small Midwife run birthing centers where Labour is as hands off as might be in a homebirth, and then there is the hospital...

The hospital though is a self contained maternity unit, you aren't mixing with sick people (unless you count pregnancy as a sickness which I'm sure you don't).

As for the examinations, internals here aren't performed nearly as much as they used to be, with my children I wasn't touched at all until labour. Externally I was only touched naturally during a quick dating tummy feel, scans and to check baby was engaged.

As regards to the SS, well over here you are fighting a losing battle to begin with.
Unless you comply and let them see you are doing the things they think you should, you are quite honestly knackered. Lawyers here cannot help in the slightest. As parent, you are not even allowed to know what goes on in their closed courts. SS staff are notorious for giving false information and you have no right to defend yourself or even know what has actually been said. Add the fact they get funding for every snatched newborn they rush through adoption and you see the problem....

Don't shoot the messenger...

reply to post by Suspiria


You don't know why I'm being defensive when you are making all sorts of judgments about our decision? Calling me irresponsible and the like... Of course I'm going to defend myself...

We were on the radar yes, but what this whole fiasco has done is made my partner not want to be on the radar at all next time! When I contacted the hospital to cancel the appointment and when I informed them that he was born already they didn't ASK if they could just come and check him over, they turned up hours later with the police! They had no right to do that!

Hurt a bit? She could barely walk for 2 days the pain was that bad! And for your information my partner isn't as up on things as i am. She isn't "scared witless by germs" (neither am I for that matter but I have a healthy concern about them, especially at a hospital where the worst types of infections are bound to congregate).

Now this whole "professional" BS really does get my back up. I do not trust someone merely because they are "professionals" and rightly so! Why would I when so many of them have lied to me for a start? Trust is earned, not just given away because they have been to college/uni! Not to mention the amount of "professionals that have abused that title. I rather think of us as all human beings.

We do not have our wires crossed, I did hours upon hours of research regarding birthing of all types! I'm well aware of these so called rights you speak of! I'm also well aware that many women have been lied to by their midwives, they act as though they are supportive but when the time comes they have all sorts of methods to get you into the hospital! Go to a site called "aims" you will get some good info there. If I had trust in the system I would, but to me the risks outweighed the benefits... Could something really terrible of happened? Yes! But the chances are remote! Also life threatening illnesses can strike at any moment! Also there are many cases where doctors and the like miss-diagnose! When I was at school there was 1 boy who complained of headaches, he saw many "professionals"! He died from a brain hemorrhage! I had another friend drop dead on the playing field! His father was a doctor! They called it sudden death syndrome! It was a real shame too because the boy was a genius! My point is tragedies happen sometimes! You mock me for being concerned about a place full of sick people with a multitude of viruses, where people have died due to them! But you have an irrational fear of very rare birth complications!

"The hospital is a self contained birth unit?" Are you referring to all hospitals here? The hospital we would have had to go to was not like that at all! You had to walk through main reception, various corridors up the stairs etc.. The whole time mixing with the sick people.

With our previous children, one being 2 years ago she had all sorts of crap done to here! Things shoved up her bits, injections, a really tight monitor strapped round her belly. Not only that when you arrive you are forced to wait in the reception, it is not exactly very inviting or comfortable. I mean if it was so wonderful, why wouldn't we go?

I agree with the last part up to a point, but it also confuses me somewhat... SS are trained professionals! Judges are also trained professionals! How on earth can you think they can be underhanded? They lie? Professionals do not lie! Ever! SS just want to take care and protect the kids! You are obviously totally irrational here!... See what I did there?

When the previous SS came round I did not let them in! They were not happy about that at all! They came back with the police! I still did not let them in! After that I did not hear from them for 2 months+! We had nothing to answer to, we had done nothing wrong! A policeman who was dealing with my complaint phoned the SS on my behalf and they told him they had no concerns! That's on file with the police too. I had explained my position to the SS manager after the first time they turned up. So I assume that did the trick? Why this has resurfaced I do not know!

In my opinion the whole system we live in is run on fear! "Oh we better do this or else!"... When quite often if we stick up for ourselves we can and do win!

I understand your position totally! I was there once! But life events and much research has certainly opened my eyes... I would love you to watch the first part of video, it will show you why perhaps we shouldn't always just trust professionals! The whole documentary is unbelievable!



I would also like to note that I do not believe ALL so called professionals are evil or something, mis-informed? Yeah I think a whole lot are! I wasn't about to risk that with my son. It's a toss up, possible rare birth conditions vs possible rare viruses (confined to one building)/Incompetent possibly malicious professionals.

reply to post by Suspiria


Sorry, one more thing which I feel is very important... The whole "they don't care about your rights! They care about the kids wellbeing" is very very dangerous and just plain wrong! What someone deems to be right for the kids is just their opinion! Who decides what is and isn't right for the kids? And in effect all of us...

Isn't it this mentality that has brought about the SS? When they come to steal children, do they not use that same excuse?

We have to tolerate each others opinions and wants! You may not agree and you can surely try to persuade. But you can not FORCE, it is immoral! Now don't get me wrong, children are being abused by some people, but some of those people are in the care system! So having the care system hardly solves the problem does it? Taking children off their parents for things like cleanliness or monetary worries is just not acceptable! Growing up I had many friends who lived in dives! They were still very happy kids and their parents still loved them dearly...

I respect your right to use the health care system, I also believe you that you have had great experience with it. All I ask is that you afford me the same respect.

You are doing it again, I'm not your enemy here.
If you don't care to listen then I have no idea what you are doing here.
Look after your baby, your wife and get off the PC. Seem's you already know what to do, in which case you go ahead and do it.

In all honesty I'd like to see your wife's take on all of this, you seem to have taken the lead in making most decisions for her in late pregnancy and now your crying about the outcome.

Originally posted by Doalrite

That's how I was born. Times have changed with NHS cuts, it's subdued lighting, classical music and nary a stirrup in sight.

Originally posted by Suspiria
You are doing it again, I'm not your enemy here.
If you don't care to listen then I have no idea what you are doing here.
Look after your baby, your wife and get off the PC. Seem's you already know what to do, in which case you go ahead and do it.

In all honesty I'd like to see your wife's take on all of this, you seem to have taken the lead in making most decisions for her in late pregnancy and now your crying about the outcome.

edit on 7-4-2012 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)

I'm doing it again? Oh I see only YOUR viewpoint is valid and I should "listen" to you because you know all, is that about right? How about we listen to each other? I have heard your views and I once held them myself! I have stated that very clearly. But see people like you always debate like this, or rather you do not debate at all. You cherry pick things and when it gets too much just ignore everything!

Why are you here if you will not listen? I've heard you out and I have stated my case, that is all... I don't see you as an enemy, I see you as being mis-informed and judgmental, but I do not hate you!

Now you want to tell me what I should and shouldn't do with my time! Come on now, really? Perhaps you should take your own advice?

I am not married, I'm not religious... You do not know her or me yet you presume quite a bit about our social dynamic.

Hopefully one day you will see the value of standing up for individual rights.

reply to post by Doalrite


Lol yeah this seems about right! I don't think too much has changed to be honest.. Perhaps they are a little less friendly now though. Nice one for the chuckle.