Can anyone tell me anything about this military patch?

Hello. I don't know too much about the military or its patches (despite the fact that both my brother and my father are vets). I came across this and I'm curious if anyone can identify it or tell me something about its significance:



I am interested in this because it is very clear Christian symbolism and sentiments - which I thought the military was supposed to avoid. This leads me to belive it is unofficial rather than official, although that's pure guesswork on my part. Has anyone ever seen this? If so, do you know what branch of the military its from, who wears it, is it official or non-official, and what it means? I'm just curious. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

reply to post by Partygirl


I'd guess Medic patch alumni or some sorts, if I had to guess.
Maybe army medic?

It's for sale though

Patch sales link

Quoted from site " Some groups enjoyed this patch made long ago so with efforts with the original artist I've made it again to offer on up. A quick summary would be Saint Michael is viewed as the field commander of the Army of God. "

It is a patch for the army.
The symbol of protection in battle.

PLPL

I too was able to find it for sale at many sites, available in all the different cammo patterns for current and previously issued uniforms. Not an expert by any stretch, but it appears that these morale patches are non-regulation and are worn off base at the discretion of the commander. They are usually not worn on-base. Hope that helps!

EDIT: Meant to include that for many, St. Michel is the patron saint of warriors, the sick and the suffering so in context the patch makes sense.

Saint Michael, is the Patron Saint of Law Enforcement Officers, Firemen, Grocers and one of the patron saints of EMT's and Paramedics. A traditional Catholic gift that will protect all that serve.

As far as I can tell it has no official affiliation with any military group. However it is a symbol of protection as it asks for the blessing of St. Michael The Archangel who is viewed as the field commander of the Army of God. There are many patches you can get that say different things, but have no affiliation with any military unit. I can go down the road to the Smokey Mountain Knife Works and get one that declares I am a member of the Zombie Sniper Team. It is a good find all the same.

reply to post by Partygirl


I think the police use that as a good luck charm or protection...it's not necessarily a patch for the military but I could be wrong..I know my friend who's a cop has one in the shape of a coin

reply to post by Partygirl


I have never seen this as an official military patch. But I'm not an expert in military patches. This sounds (OK, looks) more like an individual patch with some obvious religious significance, Catholic I think. It would surprise me very much if this was issued as any standard designation in any US Armed Service branch.

People can have "home made" patch's put on uniforms but never if on active duty or as an active member of the US military. I'm sure exceptions can be made but that would be up to the appropriate unit commander. I can see someone getting into hot water at least in principle for allowing it.

The US Military is not prone to use specific religious do-dads on uniforms. You do of course have military chaplains, but that like the engineers or medical core just specifies what they do, and I've never seen this on any enlisted mans uniform, and I'm somewhat familiar with Army medics and Naval Corpmen.

But then again, there are always exceptions, particularly in a war zone. I could easily see some commander letting it slide to some extent under those environments.

reply to post by Partygirl


Many military patches are jokes and/or collectors items (like trading cards) amongst those in the military. They may not all be official. Many squadrons (at leas in the AF) create them for moral and for fun.

So the one you posted is probably not official, just one made for fun....

For example, for a now defunct squadron up in AK, they had one of a bare butt that said something like "we freeze our arses off so you dont have to".....it was not an official patch, just a fun one

It sure must be hard for the military to claim to locals in Afghanistan or Iraq that we are not Christian Crusaders...
All they have to do is look at a patch like this on the soldier and say "Your lying". Just an interesting point to make there...

Here is an interesting historical examination of the types of things the military of Rome wore. Look around and see for yourself the amount of similarity and compare.

Roman Military Clothing (3) AD 400-600

Check out the symbolism employed on military outfits, and find out "why" they put these particular symbols on their uniforms, and in what manners are they applied? You will see things haven't changed as much as we like to assume...

Originally posted by Partygirl
Hello. I don't know too much about the military or its patches (despite the fact that both my brother and my father are vets). I came across this and I'm curious if anyone can identify it or tell me something about its significance:

First of all I am no heraldry expert but I did serve 24 years in the Army.

A lot of the branches in this case Aviation have "awards" that they give to their community. These are not official awards from DOD or the Army. They usually are only worn at say the Aviation Ball or at Dining-in's or even Dining-outs for Aviation units. They are worn except on special occasions. This patch is sometimes worn by aviators on their combat flight uniforms to signify their membership in the organization.

See information below - Order of Saint Michael

The legend of Saint Michael defeating the dragon exemplifies the bravery and gallantry associated with the Aviation Soldier and the boldness and swiftness of Aviation on the battlefield. As a brave warrior and protector, Saint Michael is the embodiment of courage and justice and is an appropriate symbol of excellence in Army Aviation.

Established in 1990 as a joint venture between the AAAA and the U.S. Army Aviation Center (USAAVNC), the Order of Saint Michael recognizes individuals who have contributed significantly to the promotion of Army Aviation in ways that stand out in the eyes of the recipient's seniors, subordinates, and peers. These individuals must also demonstrate the highest standards of integrity and moral character, display an outstanding degree of professional competence, and serve the United States Army Aviation or civilian aviation community with distinction.

As for the religious nature of its symbolism - meh; you have to understand that the leaders (officers) in these organizations are very much a religious bunch. I'd say 90% Christian or some denomination. A good majority of the Soldiers serving also are Christian.

I am not; never was but I never was offended by having invocations and such before every meeting, meal or flight. Why - because religion has a powerful calming/unifying and comforting effect on those who believe it. You want those things in a military unit.

Since in large organizations you can't hit all the groups equally (never enough chaplains of different religions to go around – it’s not cost effective) you hit the one that has the most effect. In this case the Christians are the majority. I never took it personally - never had my opinion changed. Most Soldiers don’t really care one way or the other. Every once in a while you’ll get the squeaky wheel atheist or whatever who wants to make a stink. As a Commander I just told these types (usually a type of Soldier who doesn’t understand the need for respect in the first place) if they don’t want to participate either stand quietly and ignore the chaplain or feel free the leave earshot of the speaker. No offence will be taken.

I even had Chaplains at my Change of Command ceremonies despite my lack of belief; why? Because in a large organization it’s not only about you - it’s about the team.

I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about it.

reply to post by Golf66


Interesting thanks for the information.

I personally think it should be made illegal for soldiers to join orders or societies while they are in the service, such as the Order of Saint Michael or Freemasonry.

This reveals to me, an outsider, that there are ulterior motives and agendas afoot within our military establishment. Just like you said "its not official", it's "un-official". And the fact these "un-official" groups recruit members from within the military shows that the leadership of the military approves of such actions.

This is one of the main reasons our military is so screwed up, we have all of the cult groups in there contributing to the brainwashing and aiding and abetting the war effort directly.

The US Military is suppose to support and protect ME, the American Citizen. But instead the military obviously favors and supports these private fraternal orders above their own citizenry. They are so misled into this crap they probably think that the private fraternal order's agenda favors me! But nothing could be further from the truth.

All of this religious imagery and rhetoric should not be taking place at the same time you are attacking Muslim nations, can't you see how invigorating such a thing would be for the resistance? Can't you see that this is all the proof those people need to believe 100% that this is indeed a modern crusade seeking to eliminate their religion?

Sure we are actually there for other reasons in reality, like stealing their resources and strategic military base construction. I am just saying everyone is going to get the wrong impression due to this type of behavior.

Order of Saint Michael - WIKI

The Order of Saint Michael (French: Ordre de Saint-Michel) was a French chivalric order, founded by Louis XI of France on 1 August 1469,[6][4] in competitive response to the Burgundian Order of the Golden Fleece founded by Philip the Good, duke of Burgundy, Louis' chief competitor for the allegiance of the great houses of France, the Dukes of Orléans, Berry, and Brittany.[1] As a chivalric order, its goal was to confirm the loyalty of its knights to the king.

So the whole point was loyalty to the authority. That's why they created this organization, to control the loyalty of their best soldiers.

As would be expected, the first knights were among the most powerful nobles in France, close relatives of the king and a few from other royal houses in Europe. Originally, the number of members (called companions) was limited to thirty-five.[1] In 1565, during the Wars of Religion, when loyalties were strained and essential, Charles IX increased the membership to fifty but there may have been as many as seven hundred knights under Henry III in 1574.

Just like with other Knightly Orders, this one began with the nobility joining up then the ranks spread to a larger array of candidates.

The Order of St. Michael was abolished by Louis XVI on 20 June 1790.[5] After being revived by Louis XVIII on 16 November 1816[2] but the king took little interest in the order and no new knights were added after 1816. The Order was again abolished by the French authorities in 1830.[10] The Order's last member died in 1850.

So it went defunct, then returned, then went defunct again.

Anyone have any information on how exactly the modern Order is connected to the historical one? I would like to find out about that.

I have a very strong instinct that this Order answers to the Vatican like all other knightly orders, but due to the fact it went defunct 170 years ago I would like to look into it a little deeper before I conclude that it's a method for the Vatican to establish direct loyalty with US Servicemen/women.

That's only a christian patch if you define christian as a worship of St. Michael.

There is absolutely nothing, nothing, harmful about the military joining fraternities.

Hope that helps,

Mr medinet


Looks like Johova's Witness to me

Originally posted by Partygirl
Hello. I don't know too much about the military or its patches (despite the fact that both my brother and my father are vets). I came across this and I'm curious if anyone can identify it or tell me something about its significance:

I am interested in this because it is very clear Christian symbolism and sentiments - which I thought the military was supposed to avoid. This leads me to belive it is unofficial rather than official, although that's pure guesswork on my part. Has anyone ever seen this? If so, do you know what branch of the military its from, who wears it, is it official or non-official, and what it means? I'm just curious. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Not sure why everyone is assuming it's christian...since when do christian(s) worship St. Michael?

Would you be willing to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and test your hypothesis..otherwise your really barking up the
wrong tree.

Utter Fail.

Hope that helps,

Mr medinet

It must be hard for you period.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It sure must be hard for the military to claim to locals in Afghanistan or Iraq that we are not Christian Crusaders...
All they have to do is look at a patch like this on the soldier and say "Your lying". Just an interesting point to make there...

Here is an interesting historical examination of the types of things the military of Rome wore. Look around and see for yourself the amount of similarity and compare.

Roman Military Clothing (3) AD 400-600

Check out the symbolism employed on military outfits, and find out "why" they put these particular symbols on their uniforms, and in what manners are they applied? You will see things haven't changed as much as we like to assume...

Looks like something an Army Chaplain would wear.




Modern day battle priests.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Yes I thought it was a french badge. I believe the french paras use this badge. patron saint of french air bourne? Not certain but thats my guess.

Originally posted by mrmedinet
Not sure why everyone is assuming it's christian...

I didn't say it "was", I said the locals in places like Afghanistan would construe it to be a sign of Christianity committing to a "Crusade". They would interpret it as that because it has a "biblical figure" with a shield with a CROSS on it. To modern Muslims (and most other peoples on Earth), the "Cross" represents Christianity, Jesus on the Cross, etc. In the same vein the crescent moon is associated closely with Islam.

Of course these symbols are all ancient and can be traced back thousands of years before either of these 'religions' came into existence, they are just a modern iteration. That's beside the point though.

I find it to be provocative and either intentionally or unintentionally contributing to and reinforcing the resistance's claims.

At best, it's in very poor taste.

Originally posted by mrmedinet
That's only a christian patch if you define christian as a worship of St. Michael.

Just for fun, I will show how ill prepared you are for this debate.

Who claimed that anyone "worshiped" "St. Michael"? No body did, but I admit it is a sly retort meant to confuse the subject.

What is the History of the Christian Church?
Christian Church - History - Wiki

After legalization of the Church in the 4th century, the debate between Arianism and Trinitarianism, with the emperors favouring now one side now the other, was a major controversy.[12][13] On February 27, 380, the Roman Empire officially adopted the Trinitarian version of Christianity as its state religion, see also State church of the Roman Empire. Prior to this date, Constantius II (337-361) and Valens (364-378) had personally favored Arian or Semi-Arian forms of Christianity, but Valens' successor Theodosius I supported the Trinitarian doctrine as expounded in the Nicene Creed from the 1st Council of Nicea.

Christianity was legalized and turned into the "State Religion" of the Roman Empire.
What was the "State Religion" before Christianity? And why did they end up favoring the "Trinitarian doctrine"?

Roman Imperial Cult - Wiki
Pontifex Maximus - Wiki

The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest pontiff") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion

The word "pontifex" later became a term used for Christian bishops,[4] including the Bishop of Rome,[5] and the title of "Pontifex Maximus" was applied within the Roman Catholic Church to the Pope as its chief bishop. It is not included in the Pope's official titles,[6] but appears on buildings, monuments and coins of popes of Renaissance and modern times.

College of Pontifices - Wiki

Now review the Mithraic Mysteries - Wiki.
This explains exactly why the "Trinitarian doctrine" came to such prominence.

Now that we have established the official written history is that the Roman Imperial Cult transformed itself into the "Roman Catholic Church", let us examine the practice of "Sainthood" in the context of Michael the Archangel.

Saint Michael - Wiki

Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and Lutherans refer to him as Saint Michael the Archangel and also simply as Saint Michael.

By the way, Anglicans and Lutherans are "Protestant" because they desired to go against various "dogmatic doctrines" that the "Roman Catholic Church" promoted. They are all considered "Christian" however, despite the disputes.

So therefore, since it is only "Christian groups" that refer to the Archangel Michael as a "Saint", than it follows that symbolism depicting that (especially with a cross on the shield), are indicative of Christian religious ideology. Which is merely a modern iteration of the ancient Roman cult, which was also an iteration of a even more ancient system of cults that dates further back (Persian - Egyptian - Greek - Sumerian). To see this is true all you need to do is review historical documents, compare statuary and iconography, etc. Many prominent aspects continue to transfer from cult to cult throughout time, so closely that many could claim just the name changed.

The reason why I bring up the historical references to all of this, and place it into that context, is to show how this is merely a repetition of the same practice that has been going on for thousands of years.

Religious cults and their involvement in wars of empire, the way that the common people are misled into simplistic religious beliefs devoid of any historical context, and how these simplistic religious beliefs are used to turn neighbor against neighbor in a battle to the death. That's pretty much how the majority of the history of our current civilization has gone isn't it?

Shouldn't we start to get rid of this archaic and destructive system?
These are just questions I think that everyone should ask themselves.

It doesn't even matter about the silly patch itself, that's merely a symptom of the disease. The disease is far greater and it's called corruption of power.

Originally posted by mrmedinet

Would you be willing to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and test your hypothesis..otherwise your really barking up the
wrong tree.

Should I test the hypothesis that wearing a cross while invading and occupying Afghanistan would cause hostility from the locals towards me?

No thanks. What you think I should die to prove it to you?