"Remember the Alamo" (but forget it was a Masonic treasure hunt in Mexico)

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by emberscott

 

This very discussion is evidence as to why Dign4it should not be allowed to post crap. ATS has higher standards than this. People don't just get to post outrageous opinions and make grandiose claims, and then never produce what they have promised. People also don't get to post outrageous opinions and then run out, refuse to support their opinions, and instead just open a new thread with new claims over and over again.

Maybe Dign4it should go start his own forum or blog somewhere, but the only place on ATS for his junk is the HOAX forum or the Creative Writing forum.

Well then maybe you should address that with those than operate this forum discussion site. Or disprove the original post so that it can be moved to the forum.

It is the OP's duty to prove his claims. NOT ours....sheesh....

reply to post by emberscott


I alerted on one already, and it was moved to Skunk Works. I don't plan to alert on every single thread he opens, because he obviously has more time to construct this fiction than I have to debunk every outrageous claim.

As to the notion of debunking or disproving anything he says, well that is impossible, since he always leaves out the key details. He doesn't tell us what the treasure maps are, or what the treasures are, or what the intended purpose for the secrecy is. He simply says something exists, without saying what exists or where it exists or how to identify it, so how the hell are we supposed to debunk him when he hasn't said anything?

Originally posted by emberscott
What exactly is written in the original post that you absolutely disagree with?

How about this bit?

The secret codes of the Catholic Church were taught to 33rd degree Masons who were initiated into the Illuminati.

First, the Catholic Church has a papal bull against any of its members becoming Masons. Any Catholic who becomes a Mason is in danger of being excommunicated by the church. SOURCE

Second, the Illuminati was founded in 1776 and dissolved around 1785 (or, more accurately, 1787, according to Terry Melanson, a formost authority on the history of the actual Illuminati)

Third, there was no 33° in Freemasonry until 1801. SOURCE.

See? Not too hard to, you know, back up claims and actually have credibility. People should try it more often!

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
It doesn't fall to others to disprove a negative; just to the OP to prove his point with something.....anything at all that would support his as-yet unsubstantiated claim.

Fitz

A 'negative'? That may require clarity.

So eliminate the "negative" component from my statement; it still falls to the OP to prove "something.....anything at all", not for others to disprove each and every wild-eyed assertion that comes along. As yet, the OP hasn't provided any substantiation. I would posit that we're all billygoats gruff on his bridge

Originally posted by emberscott
Burden of proof lies where exactly? Nowhere. This is not a court of law. There is no trial here.

Wrong. This is the court of public opinion and (framing this as positively as I think it deserves) the OP has submitted an assertion for consideration. The assertion is being tried in the minds of those who surf this particular subforum as well as the general membership of ATS.

They would be the jury.

Originally posted by emberscott
I can state that life is thriving on jupiter. I have been there. Must I be required to proffer proof because you do not believe my statement? Should you be required to proffer proof to disprove my statement because you do not believe my statement.

If you expect others to accept your word as proof? Yes; evidence in support would be helpful and a generally good idea. If you care not a whit? Nvrmnd

Fitz

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by emberscott

 

I alerted on one already, and it was moved to Skunk Works. I don't plan to alert on every single thread he opens, because he obviously has more time to construct this fiction than I have to debunk every outrageous claim.

As to the notion of debunking or disproving anything he says, well that is impossible, since he always leaves out the key details. He doesn't tell us what the treasure maps are, or what the treasures are, or what the intended purpose for the secrecy is. He simply says something exists, without saying what exists or where it exists or how to identify it, so how the hell are we supposed to debunk him when he hasn't said anything?

Should "WE ALL" just start sending him private messages that read: "STOP PISSING THE FORUM PEOPLE OFF!"

reply to post by Pinocchio




Would be entertaining, but I'm afraid that is just the sort of attention he craves anyway. The only solution I see would be to move all of his threads to Hoax until he actually participates in one and backs up his claim somehow, and then it can be moved progressively up from Hoax, to Skunk Works, to Gray Area, and eventually to the Secret Societies forum if he ever actually makes a decent case.

reply to post by emberscott

So if an OP can create a thread and make wild claims without ever providing a single shred of evidence? Do you not see how anyone could get annoyed that bandwidth is clogged with unproven accusations. The OP says he has evidence, but refuses to publish it. What else can we think other than to call "shenanigans".

The OP is a historical revisionist.

Originally posted by Destinyone
It is the OP's duty to prove his claims. NOT ours....sheesh....

Bull's Eye!

reply to post by JoshNorton

First, the Catholic Church has a papal bull against any of its members becoming Masons. Any Catholic who becomes a Mason is in danger of being excommunicated by the church. SOURCE

It is definitely clear that the catholic church is not fond of freemasonry as indicated by the catholic church in its own words

HERE

HERE

AND HERE

The authenticity of the source you cited is questionable in my opinion due to its statements HERE. Even if your cited source were authentic I see nothing negating the stated claim you excerpted from the original post.

Second, the Illuminati was founded in 1776 and dissolved around 1785 (or, more accurately, 1787, according to Terry Melanson, a formost authority on the history of the actual Illuminati)

Nothing in your cited source states the illuminati was dissolved. It states the illumati was outlawed in bovaria.

3) The final blow to the Illuminati occurred, not in 1785, but on August 16, 1787 when the Duke of Bavaria issued his third and final edict outlawing the system on pain of death.

Third, there was no 33° in Freemasonry until 1801. SOURCE.

This source you cite says your statement is true for

Then on May 31, 1801, the first Supreme Council of the Thirty-third Degree, the Mother Council of the World, declared its existence with a motto of “Ordo ab Chao” (Order from Chaos). It announced a new 33-degree system of high degrees that incorporated all 25 of the Order of the Royal Secret, and added eight more, including that of 33°, Sovereign Grand Inspector General. This new organization declared control of high-degree Masonry in America.

But that existence of 33ers predates the american

The Charleston Supreme Council had organized itself according to the “Grand Constitution of the Thirty-third Degree,” purportedly written by Frederick the Great of Prussia in 1786.

See? Not too hard to, you know, back up claims and actually have credibility. People should try it more often!

I see I suppose. I will leave that one alone.

reply to post by jazzguy


I am gonna be a little ruder. No links to back up this ridiculous story, no facts at at all except your opinion, and your assertion that all of these places have a map is just absurd. Quite possibly the dumbest thread I have seen in this forum.

www.historum.com... well he/she seems at it on a few sights but this one seems to have mroe comments from said individual or at least the same user name so i guess if people wanted to see a bit more where he is coming from their are more comments from him over there myworld.ebay.com... or hey if your looking for treasure maps he might sell them from his/her ebay account?



www.thehulltruth.com... or you can try to buy his viking convertible ship here...... so


forum.ooblada.com... might wanna pay those irs back taxes op or at least not confess to them on the internet good luck with the angry hubby from 2010 i know but those irs are sneeky

forum.ooblada.com... and if you want to know where her treasure stuff comes from i belive it is an internet game about treasure so this might make all the other threads by the op make sense

Originally posted by KilrathiLG
www.historum.com... well he/she seems at it on a few sights but this one seems to have mroe comments from said individual or at least the same user name so i guess if people wanted to see a bit more where he is coming from their are more comments from him over there myworld.ebay.com... or hey if your looking for treasure maps he might sell them from his/her ebay account?

edit on 3-4-2012 by KilrathiLG because: (no reason given)

www.thehulltruth.com... or you can try to buy his viking convertible ship here...... so

edit on 3-4-2012 by KilrathiLG because: add links

WOW....reading some of his postings over there...it appears he is quite paranoid of someone killing him to get his treasure. Wonder if I can post something he wrote there here......probably violation of T&C so I won't.

Thanks for the heads up. I feel he's fishing for something here, but won't tell us what.

Des

Pretty far fetched, but definitely interesting. Do you have any sources for these ideas?

reply to post by Destinyone


think its a her from one of the other links i posted but they seem to be well off (owns a decent looking boat) and i think most of the ops threads have to do with some online game but i could be wrong as she is literaly quite everywhere on forums so maby we can figure out all this treasure room stuff they are trying to tell us about

forum.ooblada.com... yep its a game and here are a list of the maps and treaure rooms forum.ooblada.com...


and now i am blocked by block script from going to the historium site hrrrm interesting

well since the OP wont come back I figured i would add some info..

The Treasure thats supposed to be at the Alamo is called "San Saba Treasure".

So there is partial truth or a relating legend that is associated with OPs theory.

reply to post by KilrathiLG


So, are you saying, 19 threads, and all this bandwidth, to play a game....

Must be some kind of find the treasures via the maps game. Whether the treasure is supposedly real or not...IDK...

I think the whole purpose of these threads is the OP is fishing for info from replies by ATS members.

Des

Today an (un)interesting thing hascome to pass...
You see... every morning I rise up to walk my dog and check in on the old man (his son is my enemy) who owns the store across the street. We meet every morning. He makes me coffee and credits me.
But! But today I neglected that tradition. AND GUESS WHAT!?!
He was robbed and assaulted.
I was on ATS looking for people to reply to my posts.
Do you know what?!? No one ever does...

SO... So long ATS and "BAH HUM BUG!"

Originally posted by molonlabe
well since the OP wont come back I figured i would add some info..

The Treasure thats supposed to be at the Alamo is called "San Saba Treasure".

So there is partial truth or a relating legend that is associated with OPs theory.

Interesting. "The Hunt for the Bowie Mine in Menard" .

reply to post by Destinyone


i would not say that exactly i just think its relevent to her through process and perhaps she cant disassociate the game from reality? or could even be a game from the games site to try to attract new members,but with them trying to sell a 500kish yacht they might have found real treasure and the game could just be a hobby and they could indeed be fishing for potental links or hints to alleged treasure sights so they can go find them? either way i figured it mgiht shed more light on the issue and the fact that they ususaly reply more on the other forums then here for what that is worth

reply to post by dign4it


Here is a list of the defenders of The Alamo and their nationality. I don't think many of those where Masons :-

en.wikipedia.org...

Bowie had lots of silver mines that the indians he had become blood brothers with agve him the details on. Supposedly Bowie was trekking with the loads back to alamo and it was this money/gold/silver that was going to buy them supplies, uniforms, weapons, and political gain in order to obtain Texas from Mexico.

Seems there are many different mines that either bowie was finding ore in, or was stashing silver/gold stolen from the spaniards in mexico.

Suddenly the OPs theory doesnt seem so far fetched. From my own understanding of history of the Alamo, American settlers were pushing farther and farther south and this angered mexico. Mexico had given permission for settles to establish colonies within its borders. When the settlements started growing and anti mexican proganda started they forced out mexican soldiers. This obviosuly is a no go for mexico so they attacked and the seige started.

Maybe the settlers forced out the mexicans because they actually knew of the surrounding wealth that was stashed/found in nearby caves?