When you chase the monster you become just like him

Hello ATS. I just wanted to introduce myself and relay a short story that hopefully has a moral to it. If there's no moral to it, hopefully somebody can gain something (insight) from it.

My background without giving away too much information:

I am a 32 year old man of pure Latin (Italian) descent from Boston's north side. I'm about 6'0'' even, 190 lbs. with an athletic build. You can picture me if you can picture what Hugh Jackman looks like - at least that is what everyone tells me. So anyway let's get on with it.

I'm an ex convict who was released a few years ago. I did 5 years in Attica state penitentiary. This is a maximum security prison right by Wyoming penitentiary. A place I strived to be housed at but never quite got the opportunity because of violence. It is attracted to me like a magnet. Fights kept me in Attica.

You may wonder why I did time in a New York prison and not a massachusetts one. Well I was in Queens New York visiting a family member. The second night there was what sealed my fate. My cousin thought he would show his hospitality by inviting me to an underground dog fight. Which I accepted. Something I should regret but don't.

We get there and watch some action. Everything is going good. Most of the dogs are evenly matched, which in hindsight kept me going with the flow. It didn't start until this one dog started getting beat up pretty bad. The dog that was losing actually quit fighting ( rare for pitbulls I guess). His owner, a punk 'kid' who was actually a few years older than me, got in to the square and started kicking his dog in the head. I heard a few yelps from the dog which peirced my soul. I eyed this kid who had his pants half way down his backside, his annoying jive talk, what some meaner people than I would call a "wigger". Instantly I felt a hatred I never experienced before. I charged my enemy who didn't even knew I existed. He would soon find out. I ran over and grabbed his throat and would have squeezed but I consciously pushed him. I wanted him to fight back. So went a few rounds so to speak, those that are familiar with boxing will know what I mean. He connected with me a few times but I didn't feel anything. I was so enraged. He was quicker than me but I finally got what I wanted - a perfect connection on his jaw. I still remember the punch. It was a right uppercut. I had got him in short quarters with my left hand behind his head, hit him with a right to the body and then quickly brought it upstairs. He dropped like a brick. I could have stopped but I didn't. I mounted him. I hit him. I hit him again. And again. I didn't stop. He was with about 4 of his people and all were too frightened to pull me off (some friends huh). My cousin and his friend are the ones that pulled me off and in the process saved both of our lives. I would have been charged with murder and he would have ceased to exist.

A few more hits and I would have killed him. Do I regret my actions? No. I regret being caught. That might sound evil to some of you, but to me this jive talking white guy was evil. He's the type of individual who stands around while some chick I getting rapped. You know what is evil in my code of living, inaction. Letting things happen. Letting a wife get beat up in public while the chickenhawk by standards are frozen in place like a statue.

You all have to realize and some of you seem to want it, is that when law breaks down and chaos is here, it is the cowards that will come in last. What some of YOU see as evil is not evil to others. When you chase the beast you become just like him.

I learned a lot in prison. Ask me anything you'd like and I'll try to answer as best as I can. I wanted to post this in a different thread but am restricted. I just want some of the survivalists on here to know its not just socioeconomics and the haves and the have nots. If prison is any indication you will not be able to trust anyone but your immediate family.

This is a great forum and I feel blessed that it exists.

Welcome

what would u do differently in that scenario that put u behind bars, if you had the chance

As I'm from a very crowded city I have witness all sort of crazy events too close for comfort,

there are a handful of times cops eyed me down and tried to pull me into a crime scene, i guess they always need someone to pin all the stuff thats happening but show up too late to catch the perpetrator so turn on the crowd or the person who butt in just to try and break up a brawl =/

its a catch22 i guess, be well!

I've come back for the third time now to edit my post. I'm in a quandary on what to say. To say this thread didn't push buttons with me, would be dishonest. I'm an avid animal lover, and abhor senseless violence.

I guess the only thing I can truly, honestly say is.....there are so many loving people on ATS....may you learn the lessons, the Universe sent you here to learn.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall


Dogfights.

I will not even comment what I would have done.

It would have been on the news and I would now be infamous and on death row.

I would suggest to report to the ASPCA everything you know about any and all people involved.

Anyone out there that engages in this primitive sport - what goes around comes around.

Leaving this thread, just too upsetting to me.

powerofthedog.com...

Anyone that would take advantage of or abuse a dog, child or someone weaker then themselves is a real jerk in my book and I wouldn't associate with them.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall

the whole life is a fight!

i would like to think that prison is not a microcosm for the world
especially since once the state is dismembered
no more guards
no more panopticon

Sometimes there are things worth fighting for, other times the diplomatic approach is best. There is a way to handle things, and a way not to.

I agree with your statement, when you chase the monster you risk becoming a monster, this is why to have patience... there is no need to chase.

If the monster is real, they come for you.... no chasing needed for that, just defending one's self. In which case you never risk your higher self and become an evil thing.

It is in defense of self or another that is the only motivation to action, and you should seek diplomatic means first, if that fails, and the monster comes for you because you sought diplomatic means against him, then and only then is violence prescribed.

And you better make certain you are right first. Question everything, including yourself, trust no one, including family... seek knowledge above all things

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Welcome

what would u do differently in that scenario that put u behind bars, if you had the chance

As I'm from a very crowded city I have witness all sort of crazy events too close for comfort,

there are a handful of times cops eyed me down and tried to pull me into a crime scene, i guess they always need someone to pin all the stuff thats happening but show up too late to catch the perpetrator so turn on the crowd or the person who butt in just to try and break up a brawl =/

its a catch22 i guess, be well!

I probably would have been more calculated about it. Maybe try to control my temper and confront him later on where I could knock him out and then just walk away. Jumping on him was excessive. My quick action is what landed me in Attica. But it also saved my life in prison, go figure.

Originally posted by Jameela
Sometimes there are things worth fighting for, other times the diplomatic approach is best. There is a way to handle things, and a way not to.

I agree with your statement, when you chase the monster you risk becoming a monster, this is why to have patience... there is no need to chase.

If the monster is real, they come for you.... no chasing needed for that, just defending one's self. In which case you never risk your higher self and become an evil thing.

It is in defense of self or another that is the only motivation to action, and you should seek diplomatic means first, if that fails, and the monster comes for you because you sought diplomatic means against him, then and only then is violence prescribed.

And you better make certain you are right first. Question everything, including yourself, trust no one, including family... seek knowledge above all things

edit on 3-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

This is an enlightening post. Thank you for giving your time to write that.

Originally posted by grandestconspiracyofall


This is an enlightening post. Thank you for giving your time to write that.

Your very welcome.

And I wish you well in your life... freedom is a precious thing no?

There is great truth in your title. If you have realized that, you are wiser than most. No one is without a past. Define who you wish to be today and everyday. Many here are open and willing to listen. Welcome.

I agree with you wholeheartedly: When you chase the monster, you become just like him. Truer words were never spoken. Another truth: You are distinguished by the company you keep. There are many truths out there. Find the ones that pertain to you at any given moment. Live those truths but don't hold onto them. They are fleeting and fickle.

But I definitely disagree with one of the member's statements. You must always trust yourself and your observations. Always. What you must be aware of is your interpretation of those observations. But never doubt or distrust yourself.

Welcome to you. There is always a need for fresh blood here.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall


There is nothing a person like you could tell me that I could benefit from. I dont care that you think prison makes you some sort of tough guy. I dont care that you can beat up some lowly coward who abuses animals.
Any person who participates in the abuse of animals or condones it is nothing but a lowly piece of trash. You are somewhere between a cockroach and dog crap in my book. Do the civilized world a favor and crawl back under whatever rock you slithered out from under. Better yet, go back to prison. You seemed to enjoy it and are proud of it, maybe its where you belong.

How the hell can you go to a dogfight and attack someone for..you know, treating their dog the same way all these fools treat their animals?

You are 100% at fault because you should have known what to expect and should have avoided the situation. Who goes to a BBQ and complains that they're cooking meat? Fools.

I don't see you as a protector of dogs, a defender of ethics or anything even remotely honorable. You chose to spend time in a shady criminal den and you senselessly (based on your account) attacked and almost killed someone. You show no regret or remorse and therefor it could be argued that under the *right* circumstances you would act in exactly the same way. Why did they let you out of prison again?


If violence seems to follow you, it's because you invite it. I am not sure if you were trying to defend a dog or what your motivation was, but I don't understand how you can go to a dog fight to watch dogs..you know, fight and KILL each other, but also feel some obligation to protect the dogs from their owners. All of those dogs are horribly abused. If you don't support that don't go to those places.

I really just don't even know what to make of this thread..

Welcome to ATS, I suppose.

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall

 

There is nothing a person like you could tell me that I could benefit from. I dont care that you think prison makes you some sort of tough guy. I dont care that you can beat up some lowly coward who abuses animals.
Any person who participates in the abuse of animals or condones it is nothing but a lowly piece of trash. You are somewhere between a cockroach and dog crap in my book. Do the civilized world a favor and crawl back under whatever rock you slithered out from under. Better yet, go back to prison. You seemed to enjoy it and are proud of it, maybe its where you belong.

I was already tough eons before I entered the system, hombre. If anything prison made me a little more stoic. I'm not proud that I went. But while it was rough it is what you make it, much like everything else. I had more education in there than I could ever gain at Yale or Harvard.

I'm delighted that you think I'm a cockroach. I've been called plenty worse. If I can't help you señor, exit the thread and do yourself a favor.

Have a wonderful day.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall


I'm quite happy you're here. We all make mistakes, and if we don't, we might as well not be alive. Experience is about mistakes. That's the only way to discover the nature of things. And those who belittle others who seek information in whatever form or on whatever level are the ones with a problem. They live in fear and rejection. Their world is not open to experience.

I don't know if you are familiar with Terrence McKenna, but if not you really should delve into his works. Brilliant man. I seriously doubt he would begrudge you whatever information/stimulation you pursue. I know I don't either.

Take good care of yourself and again, a big welcome to you.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall


The only help you could give me or the rest of the world would be to off yourself. And everyone on here is a tough guy, or gal. Dont you know? You aint special

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
How the hell can you go to a dogfight and attack someone for..you know, treating their dog the same way all these fools treat their animals?

You are 100% at fault because you should have known what to expect and should have avoided the situation. Who goes to a BBQ and complains that they're cooking meat? Fools.

I don't see you as a protector of dogs, a defender of ethics or anything even remotely honorable. You chose to spend time in a shady criminal den and you senselessly (based on your account) attacked and almost killed someone. You show no regret or remorse and therefor it could be argued that under the *right* circumstances you would act in exactly the same way. Why did they let you out of prison again?


If violence seems to follow you, it's because you invite it. I am not sure if you were trying to defend a dog or what your motivation was, but I don't understand how you can go to a dog fight to watch dogs..you know, fight and KILL each other, but also feel some obligation to protect the dogs from their owners. All of those dogs are horribly abused. If you don't support that don't go to those places.

I really just don't even know what to make of this thread..

Welcome to ATS, I suppose.

Your questions are logical and most definitely understandable. For one, it was a little over 7 years ago. I went out of curiosity. Maybe to fit in with big cousin and his buddy. I wasn't trying to paint myself as some hero. A hero is someone who rescues cats our of trees or visits senior citizens in nursing homes who have no family. Firefighters are heros, I am not.

When I heard the dog yelp everything came tumbling down. People like the guy i almost killed are beasts to me. And in fighting that beast I turned into one. I didn't see him as a human being. Him and I are from 2 different worlds, obviously 2 different upbringings. I know what I did was excessive. Logically I know this. Emotionally I don't care and never will.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
How the hell can you go to a dogfight and attack someone for..you know, treating their dog the same way all these fools treat their animals?

You are 100% at fault because you should have known what to expect and should have avoided the situation. Who goes to a BBQ and complains that they're cooking meat? Fools.

I don't see you as a protector of dogs, a defender of ethics or anything even remotely honorable. You chose to spend time in a shady criminal den and you senselessly (based on your account) attacked and almost killed someone. You show no regret or remorse and therefor it could be argued that under the *right* circumstances you would act in exactly the same way. Why did they let you out of prison again?


If violence seems to follow you, it's because you invite it. I am not sure if you were trying to defend a dog or what your motivation was, but I don't understand how you can go to a dog fight to watch dogs..you know, fight and KILL each other, but also feel some obligation to protect the dogs from their owners. All of those dogs are horribly abused. If you don't support that don't go to those places.

I really just don't even know what to make of this thread..

Welcome to ATS, I suppose.

Your questions are logical and most definitely understandable. For one, it was a little over 7 years ago. I went out of curiosity. Maybe to fit in with big cousin and his buddy. I wasn't trying to paint myself as some hero. A hero is someone who rescues cats our of trees or visits senior citizens in nursing homes who have no family. Firefighters are heros, I am not.

When I heard the dog yelp everything came tumbling down. People like the guy i almost killed are beasts to me. And in fighting that beast I turned into one. I didn't see him as a human being. Him and I are from 2 different worlds, obviously 2 different upbringings. I know what I did was excessive. Logically I know this. Emotionally I don't care and never will.

reply to post by grandestconspiracyofall


I'd like to understand these questions...

At the time, did you know the dog fights were illegal? What attracted you to that in the first place?