Do you consider yourself Australian?

Jace, let me ask you mate, please identify what you consider to be Australian culture? What is it that you so want to keep Australian?

I really don't understand. Living in a huge mulitcultural community is nothing strange to anyone. Its only when you start looking for issues, that these issues will arise.

vvv

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by lacrimaererum
You cannot dictate who does or does not reply to a thread.

You are being racist. You feel your space is being invaded by non-nationals. You want everyone to be the same as you. You feel threatened.

Loose the glasses. You need to become color blind. We are the one species. Stop looking for things that makes us different. Look for the things that unite us.

I went to the hairdressers the other day, and you know what the lady told me?
She said I wasn't allowed in because there was a Muslim lady inside with her husband, and he didn't want any men to come in and see her.
I'm not looking at race here, I'm looking at integration specifically those who are non-white.

Yeah right - in QLD? - was this next to Pauline's fish and chips shop ?

Originally posted by phalanx001

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by daaskapital
I am white and Australian, and i consider myself an Aussie

I do however agree with this immigration stuff. It is getting beyond a joke. Has anyone here seen SE QLD, particularly Brisbane. Holy Crap has it been flooded with imigrants, particularly from Africa. Go to central station and there are Africans EVERYWHERE. You drive through the "African suburbs" and they all stop and stare at you, like you don't belong there. The way in which the Africans show disrespect and appalling behaviour to the wider community is disgusting, trying to pick fights, spitting, name calling, yelling, being public disturbances. All things i hardly ever see a "white" person do. Don't get me wrong, i am not racist, but something must be going down for all these Africans to be moving in. What is worse is that they all move in and create their own structured society, keeping to themselves, forming "gang" like groups, a country within a country if you will. Most other cultures and races though are very respectful, especially the Asian races. Muslims are pretty cool too, but Africans, there needs to be adjustments with them.

I live in SE QLD, but I don't visit Brisbane often. The few times I have I have seen Africans walking the street in full "African" garments. The few Africans I have met have been wonderful, they dress so nicely, and were incredibly nice to me.
BUT there is a growing "gangster" culture that I believe is growing with the younger African generations. My parents were telling me they travelled through an area in Woodridge and they told me they saw literally "thousands" all crowded in one park. My mother than said, " They're NOT integrating they're congregating".
I have also noted that they do stare at you. I have especially seen the Islanders stare at you, they act as if this is "their" country, all the while having 10+ children.
Multiculturism is clearly NOT working in Australia. Look at how many problems we have had with the Lebanese, yet America, Canada, and the UK has had almost no trouble with them.
Now with all these new influxes, Australia will be even more divided.
Australia is going to have major problems in the future.

Think about it Jace. On one hand you're saying that Australia was built by the British immigrants and that defines an Australian (thus by default your stating that a true Australian is one that is white of British descent). On the other hand you're complaining that non-white Australians are congregating and not integrating. How can they 'integrate' if YOUR definition already excludes them from being Australian ( ie they're not of British descent).

Personally I belive it is this underlying racist attitude that you display that encourages 'congregation'. The sad thing is that you don't even realize you're doing it.

No thats not what I mean, the people who built Australia were British thats a fact (btw I have NO BRITISH ancestors), anyone can be Australian and I have openly from a non-British background embraced Australia and called it my own just like many others.
The Africans my parents saw in the park wouldn't have bothered my parents if they were celebrating Australia day or something, but they were not. They were congregating in a park practicing African traditions, what type of effect do you think that has when we see that?
Several of my friends are Asian, particularly Chinese but they call themselves Australian and I consider them Australian, but I don't understand how people can come here and continue to practice their old ways, it causes division and social segregation.

Originally posted by lacrimaererum
reply to post by Jace26

 

your opening post is racist. like i said already you want everyone to be the same as you.

you can come up with any excuses or 'stories ' you like it doesn't change the fact this is yet another racist right wing thread on ATS.

frankly these threads make me puke and the mods need to start taking proper action on them.

He was raising an opinion, about a genuine altercation happening in Australia. I believe he supports a multicultural society, as do i. he has tried to tell you that he isn't racist but you are choosing not to listen. If you do not see a problem with immigrants coming over here, being provided $400,000 houses, $60,000 cars, and recieving $60 million worth of cigars/cigarretes alone, then man, you are clearly not with the times.

signature: There is no justice only law

As your signature says mate, it is the law, and if the immigrants are there legally. It is the law, and their right.

Your signature, should reflect your beliefs.

vvv

reply to post by Jace26


Huge can of worms here.

On my fathers side I am first fleet Australian. My mother immigrated to Australia in the early 60's. I am Australian for all purposes. Deep down I know I'm only half Australian but I really only think of myself as an Aussie.

People here have posted about "Cultural" things. Just because you like or dislike Australian culture is not what makes you a "True Australian". A true Australian is how you feel in your heart. If you feel Australia is your home "Warts and all" and would fight to the death for it then you are a "True Australian".

I do see problems you refer to but it is a hard debate. Assimilation is a fine line. Yes we want immigrants to assimilate into our culture but I personally feel one should be able to preserve some form of personal identity and pride in their heritage. See the point? It is a fine line. There are no rules immigrants should follow. How is it going to be policed? Impossible.

I remember during the late 70's and mid 80's in Australia shops in the Sydney suburb of Cabramatta were sporting signs along the lines of "We don't serve Caucasians" on their windows ..... Disgusting!. Then equally disgusting was the Australian white supremacist group "National Action" who terrorised families with the intention to get them to leave Australia just because they were Asian ...... disgraceful. The game today is still the same and has spiralled out of control with different players who claim they are reactionary to each others motives.

I once got into a discussion with a person who was born, educated and raised in Australia but had parents who had immigrated from Lebanon. I asked him what Nationality he was. He replied "I'm a Leb". I said no, I did not ask what your heritage was I was meaning what do you consider yourself? again he said "I'm a Leb .... I am not an Australian". I said have you even been to Lebanon or hold Lebanese citizenship? He replied no to both questions. Now that is insulting!

I believe that individuals are entitled their own ways but I hate it when ways are forced onto me. An example of this the calls that were made to remove Christmas decorations from shopping centres because they offend the Muslim customers.

I hate when I see things like confectionery and fast foods outlets that are all "Halal" What if I don't want halal? What gives their right precedence over mine? They are basically saying "We don't care what you want we are going to cater to this audience" Discrimination really.

I hate it when prayer breaks are granted to some but because you don't believe in religion you are not given similar time off to do what you please.

I'm not against people practising their own beliefs, thats fine. I find it offensive when beliefs or practices mentioned above are forced onto me without a choice. There is so much Jew bashing on ATS but I have never heard a Jew in Australia demand all food should processed as Kosher!

People here have also made reference to Aboriginals being the first and only Australians. Not true. People of Koori heritage "Per Se" are not the first Australians. The first fleet settlers sure as hell were not the first Australians either. They were all British, Irish and European in decent. Australia was formed in 1901. Therefore anybody alive at that time or born after that date are Australians regardless of whether they were British, Irish, European, Aboriginal or Chinese. Without doubt Aboriginals are the earliest known inhabitants of the country now known as Australia but definitely not the first Australians as it did not "officially exist as an independent nation before 1901.

Originally posted by phalanx001

Originally posted by pheonix358
Aboriginals are immigrants too. They came from Indonesia and brought their dingoes with them.

Hell, how about the truth. Let us send everyone back to where they came from and we can have all 7 billion of us in the horn of Africa! Some Aboriginals say they want to life like their ancestors did until they have to chase dinner down with a spear.

If you want the real Aboriginal opinion go and meet the tribal Elders and have a chat. I have. They are despondant on their racial future but they do realise that the problems by and large belong to the Aboriginal people and not to 'white man.'

I am sick of the truth being called racist.

P

If this was aimed at me, I'm not suggesting anyone be sent back anywhere. On the contrary, I used the same logic Jace used to justify his 'claim' to Australia to point out the same point you're making. The bottom line is though that he is being xenophobic. How can migrants from various countries 'integrate' and declare themselves as Australian if the definition of Australian is 'of British descent' since the British 'built the country'. What gives Those of British descent more right to Australia? When does someone of non-British descent become 'Australian' ? There are definitely minorities that congregate and there are ethnic groups amongst which crime rates may be higher ... You won't solve the problem by telling them they are not Australian because they are non-British.

Okay you are putting words in my mouth here.

The British built Australia okay? Good lets move on to point two.

The British descendents then created their own identity which is Australian, seperate from the British one albeit still similar.

This means it isn't race-based, anyone can be Australian no matter the race.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by phalanx001

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by daaskapital
I am white and Australian, and i consider myself an Aussie

I do however agree with this immigration stuff. It is getting beyond a joke. Has anyone here seen SE QLD, particularly Brisbane. Holy Crap has it been flooded with imigrants, particularly from Africa. Go to central station and there are Africans EVERYWHERE. You drive through the "African suburbs" and they all stop and stare at you, like you don't belong there. The way in which the Africans show disrespect and appalling behaviour to the wider community is disgusting, trying to pick fights, spitting, name calling, yelling, being public disturbances. All things i hardly ever see a "white" person do. Don't get me wrong, i am not racist, but something must be going down for all these Africans to be moving in. What is worse is that they all move in and create their own structured society, keeping to themselves, forming "gang" like groups, a country within a country if you will. Most other cultures and races though are very respectful, especially the Asian races. Muslims are pretty cool too, but Africans, there needs to be adjustments with them.

I live in SE QLD, but I don't visit Brisbane often. The few times I have I have seen Africans walking the street in full "African" garments. The few Africans I have met have been wonderful, they dress so nicely, and were incredibly nice to me.
BUT there is a growing "gangster" culture that I believe is growing with the younger African generations. My parents were telling me they travelled through an area in Woodridge and they told me they saw literally "thousands" all crowded in one park. My mother than said, " They're NOT integrating they're congregating".
I have also noted that they do stare at you. I have especially seen the Islanders stare at you, they act as if this is "their" country, all the while having 10+ children.
Multiculturism is clearly NOT working in Australia. Look at how many problems we have had with the Lebanese, yet America, Canada, and the UK has had almost no trouble with them.
Now with all these new influxes, Australia will be even more divided.
Australia is going to have major problems in the future.

Think about it Jace. On one hand you're saying that Australia was built by the British immigrants and that defines an Australian (thus by default your stating that a true Australian is one that is white of British descent). On the other hand you're complaining that non-white Australians are congregating and not integrating. How can they 'integrate' if YOUR definition already excludes them from being Australian ( ie they're not of British descent).

Personally I belive it is this underlying racist attitude that you display that encourages 'congregation'. The sad thing is that you don't even realize you're doing it.

No thats not what I mean, the people who built Australia were British thats a fact (btw I have NO BRITISH ancestors), anyone can be Australian and I have openly from a non-British background embraced Australia and called it my own just like many others.
The Africans my parents saw in the park wouldn't have bothered my parents if they were celebrating Australia day or something, but they were not. They were congregating in a park practicing African traditions, what type of effect do you think that has when we see that?
Several of my friends are Asian, particularly Chinese but they call themselves Australian and I consider them Australian, but I don't understand how people can come here and continue to practice their old ways, it causes division and social segregation.

So according to you people are not allowed to use a park to congregate and peacefully practice a tradition from their country of origin ? Imagine now that you're an indigenous Australian - how would you feel if you saw a 'white' family practicing traditions from their home country? And don't claim indigenous people are stuck in the stone age and that gives 'white' people the right to 'claim' Australia - that in itself is a racist statement...

When I was growing up we had the Greasers, the spics, the itis and all the rest of them. Not nice but that is what the Greeks, Polish, Italians etc were called. They went to their own suburbs in droves. Their children however went to school with all Aussie kids, they integrated! There were problems! Attempted arranged marriage, children working etc etc etc.

It takes time and at least a generation to merge cultures. Australia is a multicultural country and we do it well. Eventually the Muslim radicals will get the message that Sharia law will never exist in this country. There are problems with whom we let in.

A boat person who is supposedly a goat herder on $20.00 a month could not have paid tens of thousands of dollars to get here and yet they manage it. The PC twits get sucked in because they are brain dead. Many that are getting in were formerly drug runners and they like. They are one of the few groups that can afford the cost of the journey. It will fix itself if history repeats.

P

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
Jace, let me ask you mate, please identify what you consider to be Australian culture? What is it that you so want to keep Australian?

I really don't understand. Living in a huge mulitcultural community is nothing strange to anyone. Its only when you start looking for issues, that these issues will arise.

vvv

The beauty of Australia is that it is still 'under construction', meaning people can come here and contribute to our cultural identity. But I do have a problem with people coming here or born here, refusing to identify as Australian and rather identify with a foreign culture or namely from the country they left.

I'll give you an example, just recently there was a tax payer funded protest which costed Australian taxpayers over 450 thousand dollars to determine whether ANZAC day was divisive among ethnic minorities. To which the multicultural council argued for the cancellation of celebrations of ANZAC day. I mean come on, thats just one example of how Australian institutions and events are under threat from non-integration.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by phalanx001

Originally posted by pheonix358
Aboriginals are immigrants too. They came from Indonesia and brought their dingoes with them.

Hell, how about the truth. Let us send everyone back to where they came from and we can have all 7 billion of us in the horn of Africa! Some Aboriginals say they want to life like their ancestors did until they have to chase dinner down with a spear.

If you want the real Aboriginal opinion go and meet the tribal Elders and have a chat. I have. They are despondant on their racial future but they do realise that the problems by and large belong to the Aboriginal people and not to 'white man.'

I am sick of the truth being called racist.

P

If this was aimed at me, I'm not suggesting anyone be sent back anywhere. On the contrary, I used the same logic Jace used to justify his 'claim' to Australia to point out the same point you're making. The bottom line is though that he is being xenophobic. How can migrants from various countries 'integrate' and declare themselves as Australian if the definition of Australian is 'of British descent' since the British 'built the country'. What gives Those of British descent more right to Australia? When does someone of non-British descent become 'Australian' ? There are definitely minorities that congregate and there are ethnic groups amongst which crime rates may be higher ... You won't solve the problem by telling them they are not Australian because they are non-British.

Okay you are putting words in my mouth here.

The British built Australia okay? Good lets move on to point two.

The British descendents then created their own identity which is Australian, seperate from the British one albeit still similar.

This means it isn't race-based, anyone can be Australian no matter the race.

Define what it means to you for one to be Australian and what 'integration' is according to you?

reply to post by phalanx001


I don't agree with Pauline, but if your implying I made up that story then I can tell you right now your wasting your time as it did happen to me.

Originally posted by phatpackage. Without doubt Aboriginals are the earliest known inhabitants of the country now known as Australia but definitely not the first Australians as it did not "officially exist as an independent nation before 1901.

thats disgusting. thats one of the most racist comments i have seen.

trying to ignore the history of a country before 1901.

people did not officially exist before 1901.

i know eactly the kind of person you are to make a statement like that.

It probably depends on where you live, but here in Sydney it does feel as though Australia has lost what little sense of "identity" we once had. There's a growing number of areas around here that feel more like Bangkok/Hong Kong than they do Australia. It's not right for me to be looked at funny because I'm caucasian when I walk through certain areas, or that I can't goto certain restaurants or convenience stores because their menus and signs aren't written in English and the staff can only speak chinese/thai/lao/whatever.

I'm sure the race-card is going to get played in this thread, so before the arguing and hate-speech comes out, my wife is Thai, she has lots of friends that came from Thailand, Laos or China to study here. Every single one that we've taken to Canley Vale has commented on how it feels like they aren't in Australia anymore. So this definately isn't a racism thing...

Multiculturalism is a good thing, but I fear we've gone about it the wrong way. We've been encouraging the "come to our country, but keep living as though you're still in your native country" type of multi-culturalism that I feel only leads to social problems due to conflicting morals & ways of life.

What we should be doing is encouraging people to move to Australia (and bring their culture - food, customs etc), but do it in a way that fits in with the Australian way of life. Not all cultures fit perfectly with each other, people need to realise that they will have to give up/change some things in order to live harmoniously. If they're unwilling to make the required adjustments or after a while they find they can't adjust to the new lifestyle, then they should reconsider whether the desired country is really a good fit.

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

signature: There is no justice only law

As your signature says mate, it is the law, and if the immigrants are there legally. It is the law, and their right.

Your signature, should reflect your beliefs.

vvv

While it may not be official law, most if not all Australian politicians have expressed that while we may live in a multicultural society, there still needs to be efforts made to integrate such as language, morals, etc.

reply to post by phatpackage


Yes I completely agree with your response and I think you said it spot on. My father who is of Croatian descent was born in Australia yet as a child he taught me to hate it, he told me Australians (meaning Anglos at the time) were all filthy pigs and that they were stupid.
I have never been to Croatia but I do have family there but I do not and nor will I ever consider myself as Croatian because I'm not. I'm an Australian of Croat heritage and am proud to be aussie.

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

Originally posted by phatpackage. Without doubt Aboriginals are the earliest known inhabitants of the country now known as Australia but definitely not the first Australians as it did not "officially exist as an independent nation before 1901.

thats disgusting. thats one of the most racist comments i have seen.

trying to ignore the history of a country before 1901.

people did not officially exist before 1901.

i know eactly the kind of person you are to make a statement like that.

Piss off with calling everyone a racist. Australia wasn't "Australia" as it is today beofre 1901. 1901 was when Australia as we know it was created, albeit a bit different. All teh states joined to become Australia. Did you not read the rest of his comment stating that everyone else who has been born or were alive during/after 1901 are Australians? He is not racist. take your propaganda elsewhere please.

And the people that lived here before 1901? They are 'stone age' aliens right? So the British invaded and colonized a continent and called itmaustralia so now the parks in Queensland should be policed so people with darker skin colour should not practice 'foreign' traditions. Basically anyone that does not fit in the 'white' post-1901 Australian 'definition' is a threat. LOL wake up and smell the roses mate.