Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

TextThat is not my belief and there is no logical consistancy in your statement.

reply to post by Partygirl


It may not be your belief but many people do believe we are all one - not conjecture at all.

As for your comment on pedophilia - yes I do draw the line as I stated in my post - for those who simply decide to portray themselves as the opposite sex (both ways) for sexual kicks - I believe it is a form of perversion. But for those born with the belief that they are in the wrong body - No - we should be supporting them as we would anyone with a medical condition and this is easily established by Medical Professionals.

reply to post by alfa1

I'd go much furtrher and say that anyone who has ever had any medical intervention, either surgery or hormonal treatment to make them more feminine / attractive / beautiful could never be allowed to enter such a competition. Basically, its cheating.

This.
That brings the question to my mind though now about how many of those pageant woman are actually on some sort of hormone program or get any altering surgeries. Pushing that kind of agenda might make it more difficult to hide the cheating many of them maybe already take part in.

I might be more inclined to attempt an opinion on this if it was something that mattered.

These little pageants are absolutely inane and who among you with a brain really cares? I don't care if they put lipstick and a bikini on a pig and strut it across the stage.

I understand the OP's statement delves deeper into the heart of the matter, and I appreciate the comment about not "having values forced on me". I don't want values forced on me either, however, there are times when it's appropriate. ( Such as when an entire demographic of humans is being mistreated.)

But as far as the little pageants, what difference does it make.

Originally posted by carabao
If the rules of miss universe states she has to be born a woman then she can not enter, if the rules does not say so, then she can enter. Simple as that.

But, from what I read from your post that isn't the real problem you have with the LGBT comunity is it?

Cheap shot. Anyone tries to say that the gay movement cannot immediately have ANYTHING it wants, and they are immediately labelled a bigot.

It is fundamentally dishonest.

reply to post by Partygirl


You state you are a fundamental Christian - well I'm afraid you don't sound very Christian.

I too believe in God and believe he is perfect and made all life perfect - even those who don't appear to be so. There is a reason for everything and if you think you know better than Him and feel you have the right to argue with his perfection then I suggest that you begin to use your own mind - God gave you free will. Then perhaps you will discover - just by looking around your environment, the many variations of life He has created and then you might start seeing God as he truly is, not what the Church tells you he is.
I too am Christian but when any Church - whatever the denomination tells me that I should condemn life as God has created it then NO THANK YOU!
If you believe in God as you claim then look around you - are you saying you know better than Him? You can't even make a blade of grass and yet you think you understand all of his creation - you and your teachers.
Use your own mind - that's what He gave it to you for. Free Will (not someone else's) Open your Eyes and See!

Trans genders are obviously mentally ill and need help, if these types of activities can make them feel more accepted and helps them with their myriad of issues then they should be allowed to enter..........but only on day release from a well confined mental facility.

Originally posted by quedup
reply to post by Partygirl

 

You state you are a fundamental Christian - well I'm afraid you don't sound very Christian.

I too believe in God and believe he is perfect and made all life perfect - even those who don't appear to be so. There is a reason for everything and if you think you know better than Him and feel you have the right to argue with his perfection then I suggest that you begin to use your own mind - God gave you free will. Then perhaps you will discover - just by looking around your environment, the many variations of life He has created and then you might start seeing God as he truly is, not what the Church tells you he is.
I too am Christian but when any Church - whatever the denomination tells me that I should condemn life as God has created it then NO THANK YOU!
If you believe in God as you claim then look around you - are you saying you know better than Him? You can't even make a blade of grass and yet you think you understand all of his creation - you and your teachers.
Use your own mind - that's what He gave it to you for. Free Will (not someone else's) Open your Eyes and See!

What does your god have to do with this. Why do we bring this whole 'everyone was made perfect by god' bs here? Obviously he didn't make everyone perfect because he supposedly had to wipe us all of the planet with a flood. Your post belongs in a thread in the religious forum under "transgenders can be whatever they want because god says so.'

If you can have an operation to make you something you are not, it doesn't make you whatever it is you wanted to be.

EXAMPLE: Michael Jackson...born black...turned white...still doesn't change the fact he is/was black.

What makes me laugh is that the western world thinks that transgenderism is ubiquitous to the western world and a modern phenomenon...

It is not.. Has been around as long as humans have been around.. It is in fact the west that does not accept transgenders... The native Americans for instance.. They were able to marry and were accepted in the tribes as women.. In India they were even worshiped and had a crude form of sexual reassignment.. Now even in the islamic world transgenders are accepted in society..

But in the so-called all encompassing world of Christianity.. In the religion that states it loves everyone and accepts all... They are shunned... They... As Jesus said" You shut up the Kingdom of God against men... For YOU neither enter YOURSELVES or allow those who are entering in to go in either"...

Hypocrites!

He also said of them"For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness"

He also said"How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

Before you judge others that God made I suggest you kick your hypocracy to the curb or suffer the fate you judge on these poor people...

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by carabao
If the rules of miss universe states she has to be born a woman then she can not enter, if the rules does not say so, then she can enter. Simple as that.

But, from what I read from your post that isn't the real problem you have with the LGBT comunity is it?

Cheap shot. Anyone tries to say that the gay movement cannot immediately have ANYTHING it wants, and they are immediately labelled a bigot.

It is fundamentally dishonest.

Blahblahblah.....


The rules are the rules for anyone, if the rules says you have to be born as a woman then she can not enter the competition. But the rules does not state so, and she has allready been acepted into the Miss Universe competition.

The LGBT comunity has the right to voice their opinion just as any other part of society, sadly some people have a problem with that. Of course the LGBT comunity also has to accept that some people with, IMO, bigoted, fundamentalist religious views does not accept their way of life. But they do not have to listen to such garbage.

I don't have to accept religious hate and you don't have to accept that your omnipotent god has made people very differently.

Just tell your god he made people wrong in your next prayer, and that he/she/it should try to make them more to your liking....

So the transgender is unhappy with the body they were born with?

Me too i wish

# i was taller

# had blue eyes

# had straight hair

# smaller breasts

# a smaller nose

But hey i've learnt to live with what i have, grown into it you could say. And learnt that in

life no one has EVERYTHING they want, make the most of what you have, be less self

obsessed as theres always someone worse off than you

Originally posted by Partygirl


There is an argument now over whether transgendered people (i.e., those who have undergone sex-change operations) should be allowed in beauty contests. Originally Mr./Ms. Talackova, above, was disqualified, although after loud complaints, they are considering whether or not to let him/her into the contest.

Calling her a "Mr" is extremely bigoted.

While her biological sex may be male, her gender is female.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
My god man, I think I am gay now. This... is unexpected.

Let this Trap enter.

She looks like a woman, she acts like a woman, she sounds like a woman, she identifies as a woman, and her gender is female. So no, you are not gay if you find her attractive (not that sexuality is a rigid spectrum anyway).

Why tell us this person is transgendered in the first place? Stick him/her out there and see what the judges think. To me this makes pageants more of a freak show than they already are. I loathe them and won't be watching anyway, but seriously this is just too much.

I believe that there are already contests organized regarding transgendered women. What would happen if a genetic woman wants to participate? Would it still be a transgendered beauty contest?

Everything has two edges.

Although I don't personally agree (I feel that all surgery recipients should be banned), the rules are pretty clear:

Would you like to become Miss Universe® Canada 2012? Fill out the following information and we will get back to you directly. To qualify for the 2012 competition, you must be a Canadian Citizen and at least 18 years of age and under 27 years of age by February 1st, 2012.

If you meet the basic requirements, we’ll be sending you an application form to participate in a Casting or Local pageant to select the finalists for the Miss Universe® Canada pageant.

Source

As long as your Canadian government ID states 'female' and age between 18 and 27, you qualify.

Ms. Talackova meets all stated requirements.

What happened to "Live and let live"?

If a person wishes to have surgery, and can afford said surgery, what is it to you?
What is it to you what clothing a person chooses to wear?

The only issue here, is does her entry into Miss World comply with the Miss World rules.

Her lifestyle choices are nothing at all to do with you, or anyone else. Are you all that insecure in your own lifestyle choices, that you have to call out others?

The thing is she isn't attractive in the first place! I really really really doubt an actual member of the female sex who looked that bad would get very far.

Also it's already right as it is. Just as its right that in sprinting you cant let a man who changes himself to be a woman run the 100m womans race, or you can't let Mike Tyson dress like a girl and then join a womans boxing division

Originally posted by SG-17

Originally posted by Partygirl


There is an argument now over whether transgendered people (i.e., those who have undergone sex-change operations) should be allowed in beauty contests. Originally Mr./Ms. Talackova, above, was disqualified, although after loud complaints, they are considering whether or not to let him/her into the contest.

Calling her a "Mr" is extremely bigoted.

While her biological sex may be male, her gender is female.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
My god man, I think I am gay now. This... is unexpected.

Let this Trap enter.

She looks like a woman, she acts like a woman, she sounds like a woman, she identifies as a woman, and her gender is female. So no, you are not gay if you find her attractive (not that sexuality is a rigid spectrum anyway).

edit on 4/3/2012 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

But she doesn't look like a woman at all. She looks like a teenage boy dressed up as a girl.

Topics like these really do expose the ignorant and bigots for who they really are. People hiding behind religion to legitimize their intolerance, unfortunately too many people are like that and are the very reason this world is in the mess it is. Their ancestors wiped out entire civilisations just because they had a different way of life. Why cant you just live and let live? You can worship your fairytale god all you want, but what does some strangers lifestyle really have to do with you? You have no right to enforce your beliefs upon others, even if your book tells you to do so. Show some respect and tolerance for your fellow human being, rather than categorising and judging all those different to you.

Yeah I know this will fall on deaf ears to all who need to hear it.

reply to post by JailTales


There are many female-born women who look, act, sound like men. Does that mean they are not real women?

One thing that has always got me about western culture since I was old enough to understand is how its perfectly acceptable for females to adopt male behaviour, appearance, practices etc, but when its the other way around its shameful, disgusting, even evil to some people. Hypocrisy and double standards piss me off no end.

reply to post by JailTales


AND???

Why is that a problem for you?

Have you ever met anyone who is transgender?

I have... And believe me it is not a condition they wish on themselves... Their entire life until transition is hell... Often beaten up, murdered, shunned and disowned by their own families.. Why would they go through that for what in the ignoramus's mind is a mere "sexual perversion"?

Why would they often mutilate their own sexual organs, Bobbit style, if it was just about sex??? It is not..

In fact studies on trans womens brains post mortem have shown that they posses female brains in every way...

Can you imagine the hell of being trapped in the wrong gender?? A fair percentage commit suicide... It can therefore be a fatal condition...

On just a moral level... Why would you stop anyone from their own pursuit of happiness if it does YOU no harm??

Seriously people

GET EDUCATED

DENY IGNORANCE...