Why do you not beleive there is a God

Tell me why you do not beleive that there is a God.

and btw I've been hearing people talking about having bad experiences with christian people who have talked to them about God before and I have to say that I'm sorry you had to go through that, but like myself I don't judge because i'm just as bad and as human as most, but I pray for forgiveness and understanding.

Replies I expect:

He's a made up person to keep people good
if there is a god why would he put us through this, let us suffer
why doesn't he show himself
why would he murder (and start quoting cheap stuff from the bible to back them up)
blah blah blah, go ahead

yes i've probably heard all the questions and thoughts, but hey I want to hear it from you.

Innate cynicism, I suppose. Bad life experience, coupled by interactions with catholics. I went to a catholic elementary and catholic highschool. I choose not to believe out of philosophical and ethical reasons.

Oh, and this is the quick ticket to a flamewar. Try and keep it civil.

DE

If there was a caring, conscious god the I would have to ask him/her/it why it was such a #-up. Why he/her/it allowed such violence to happen in the world. Any such father would be thrown in prison in this world.

Would you let your children beat one another to death over who got to play with the newest toy first?

Basically i havent seen any proof to tell me there is a god, i have seen proof for the other theories (i.e science), but i am yet to see any proof of god.... that and since i gave up on religion my life hasn't gotten any worse, in fact its alot better now i dont have these contstraints that religion had given me (no i didnt sign ap act with the devil)...

Four years + of anthropology...a lack of any religious fiber in my family genes...a desire to not be led or controlled...an immense distaste for fire and brimstone followers who pity my soul and fear for my life...people saying jesus died on the cross for me...and overall, just plain disbelief and a good understanding of the fact that we create mythical creatures and Gods b/c we cannot explain things - I'd rather do my own 'splaining round here, Lucy....

Originally posted by Jonna
If there was a caring, conscious god the I would have to ask him/her/it why it was such a #-up. Why he/her/it allowed such violence to happen in the world. Any such father would be thrown in prison in this world.

Would you let your children beat one another to death over who got to play with the newest toy first?

____________________________________________________

God Didn't create people that way, he created us without sin, it's just Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, we bought in on ourselves you know...

Why does everyone get mad at God... the devil controls sin, get mad at him.
it makes sense. =)

Sin is ENTIRELY subjective. Arbitrary moral boundaries, an incredbile propensity towards mindless hatred and a stolen ethical base make Christianity unwholesome.

DE

huh?...
11:09 pm, i'm zoning
anyways, I really don't think of christianity as a religion...
I always fealt like it was just me and God...
so weird too, I seen so many miracles, and i've had so many...
and then I think people think this is coincedence... how?
yea hehe just a little tired ^_^

Originally posted by regnassem

Originally posted by Jonna
If there was a caring, conscious god the I would have to ask him/her/it why it was such a #-up. Why he/her/it allowed such violence to happen in the world. Any such father would be thrown in prison in this world.

Would you let your children beat one another to death over who got to play with the newest toy first?

____________________________________________________

God Didn't create people that way, he created us without sin, it's just Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, we bought in on ourselves you know...

Why does everyone get mad at God... the devil controls sin, get mad at him.
it makes sense. =)

I dont get mad at something that does not exist. However, if god created Eve then god created/allowed her actions.

Just like a christian to always blame the woman! JK

Well, after months of inactivity here at ATS/BTS, I decided to return. In my Leave Time, I've been thinking a bit on my standpoint when it comes to God.

The fact of the matter is, I do believe in God, in some form. Not necessarily the God you believe in, or the WAY to believe him to exist. I don't claim to know who or what God is - I simply know that something exists that is much bigger than I.

I've explored the possibilities of the "old wise man with a long beard on a cloud" possibility, but it just doesn't seem "right" for me. I have come to subscribe to the belief that God may be life itself - or existence itself, not some being separate from us. To clarify, I believe that God is something similar to the Force spoken of in Star Wars - a form of the Dao, or Dharma, or whatever you wish to call it.

For future reference, I am a Buddhist officially. Un-officially, I'm a Jedi Realist. I'll end up explaining more later - but many members already know this portion of my life story.

okay well.... yeah......

Originally posted by regnassem
okay well.... yeah......

hmmmmm.....
there's more to me than just me aye...
well
i'm a girl... and I am a christian and that's me... i really don't give a poo about anything else, really all I have to know... so yeah

Meditating always seemed boring, is it? I've done it once and my mind was about to explode out of being bored... so I just played chess, another way to meditate
no really, it makes you think and gives you full concentration, it's awesome man.

Originally posted by regnassem
hmmmmm.....
there's more to me than just me aye...
well
i'm a girl... and I am a christian and that's me... i really don't give a poo about anything else, really all I have to know... so yeah

Meditating always seemed boring, is it? I've done it once and my mind was about to explode out of being bored... so I just played chess, another way to meditate

no really, it makes you think and gives you full concentration, it's awesome man.

If that's how you want to define yourself...

Anyway, meditation is only boring if you allow it to be. Meditation is a practice; the first few times are difficult and often boring.

Meditation has been defined before, as such: "Prayer is talking to God, meditation is listening for His answer." This is generally what I subscribe to. I do believe in a form of God, as I said earlier.

To define what meditation is would take far too long for me, so I'll say that meditation is thinking without thinking. It's...hmm... it's where you think of everything and nothing. Thinking about something as simple as dew on a leaf - or the transition from night to day. It's a bit like defragging your computer.

Hell has put a HUGE block in my faith. I still believe, and look for answers, but Hell simply does not fit. There's not way that you can justify an all loving, all powerful God that lets people go to Hell because he created them flawed. He creates life, then just lets that happen... Maybe in the middle ages the pope slipped Hell in? Highly unlikely...but possible I guess. I'm at a standstill, constantly trying to keep my faith, and constantly wondering why God isn't helping me more. Why doesn't God just take control of me for a minute if he's really up there? If he really loves us...No, he wouldn't let people "choose" to go to Hell. I put choose in italics because it's not a choice. You never say "Yeah, I choose to go to Hell instead of following God.". Hell, you don't even say "I choose not to follow God". Maybe some people actually choose to stop believing, but most just can't grasp it, or just never tried because they didn't believe. Saying that these people choose to not believe would be fine just as long as you left out the fact that there are so many other religions out there that all think they're the right one.

I've answered all the questions about God that I had before, but this one has stuck with me for a good 6 months. The only conclusion that I came up with is either only horribe horrible murderer/rapist/completely evil people go to Hell who aren't even sorry for what they've done. (E.G: Hitler, the terrorists who cut off a living man's head while he was on his knees blindfolded), or that there is another step in the earth to heaven process. Raphael_UO helped me think of this one:

Maybe after you die God presents himself to you one last time to ask you if you want to follow him. Then Hell would make sense to be...but not as it is now. God wouldn't do that. Why would God purposefully make scientific proof that the other theories were correct, and make himself so damned hard to find, then send us to torture for all eternity for taking the wrong path that he made so easy to follow? His path is so hard to find, and burried underneath wrong paths. Even when I go to heaven, I still won't feel right knowing that there are people in Hell suffering.

[Edited on 3-10-2004 by Herman]

Everything I used to regard as proof of God I now see as nothing but my own blindness.

Quite a few years back I had what many christians would refer to as being "saved", only I wasn't a christian (nor did I become one after). I had been searching for some meaning and truth behind existence. It was mid afternoon and I was reading through some documents on various spiritual beliefs and in a brief moment everything just all at once made sense to me.

Our purpose of existence, the meaning of my life and for everything around me was clear as day. I was overwhelmed with a feeling of love and joy and I was then sure that God existed and I could feel him. I cried tears of joy for a good 2-3 hours that night and that feeling of love stayed with me for a good 8 months.

During those 8 months I also managed to complete certain things in my life that I had been striving for, for a long time. These events produced similar feelings of love and happiness in me that I had felt during my moment of being "saved" (as some would put it).

Turns out these experiences are felt by thousands of people everyday in varying degrees, called peak experiences. It happens to all different types of people amongst every religion. It is not a proof of God or proof that the religion you follow is true, but many people use these experiences as proof (I am guilty of this).

These experiences strengthen whatever belief system we are leaning to in the moment of our lives that it happens. If you are christian you will no doubt believe that Jesus has saved you. If you are islamic you will believe that Allah has blessed you. My spiritual views were all strengthened during my experience.

The moment I realized this was the moment I realized that my proof of god was not proof at all. The same experience I so strongly felt proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the authenticity of my beliefs was the same feelings an atheist feels when he/she comes to the lucid realization that there is no god. Only that our minds attribute the exerience to different things.

I then realized in yet another peak experience that what we personally chose to believe in is right for us. There is no truth behind any belief system except for the truth that we allow it to have. Is there an objective truth to reality? Honestly I can't say that there is.

So long story short, I see no evidence of god. Everything I once considered evidence I have now replaced with theories that actually make more sense.

Originally posted by Herman
Hell has put a HUGE block in my faith. I still believe, and look for answers, but Hell simply does not fit. There's not way that you can justify an all loving, all powerful God that lets people go to Hell because he created them flawed. He creates life, then just lets that happen... Maybe in the middle ages the pope slipped Hell in? Highly unlikely...but possible I guess. I'm at a standstill, constantly trying to keep my faith, and constantly wondering why God isn't helping me more. Why doesn't God just take control of me for a minute if he's really up there? If he really loves us...No, he wouldn't let people "choose" to go to Hell. I put choose in italics because it's not a choice. You never say "Yeah, I choose to go to Hell instead of following God.". Hell, you don't even say "I choose not to follow God". Maybe some people actually choose to stop believing, but most just can't grasp it, or just never tried because they didn't believe. Saying that these people choose to not believe would be fine just as long as you left out the fact that there are so many other religions out there that all think they're the right one.

I've answered all the questions about God that I had before, but this one has stuck with me for a good 6 months. The only conclusion that I came up with is either only horribe horrible murderer/rapist/completely evil people go to Hell who aren't even sorry for what they've done. (E.G: Hitler, the terrorists who cut off a living man's head while he was on his knees blindfolded), or that there is another step in the earth to heaven process. Raphael_UO helped me think of this one:

Maybe after you die God presents himself to you one last time to ask you if you want to follow him. Then Hell would make sense to be...but not as it is now. God wouldn't do that. Why would God purposefully make scientific proof that the other theories were correct, and make himself so damned hard to find, then send us to torture for all eternity for taking the wrong path that he made so easy to follow? His path is so hard to find, and burried underneath wrong paths. Even when I go to heaven, I still won't feel right knowing that there are people in Hell suffering.

[Edited on 3-10-2004 by Herman]

God didn't make us like that, first.
The devil used to be an angel and God threw him to hell blah blah you know the story, so the devil made this hell, because I don't think we can have sin in heaven now... and God made us flawless and we did sin, automatically giving our lives to the devil. BUT even though we did sin, didn't he come down to earth and die for us? yes he did... so we didn't have to go to hell, so he doesnt want us to go to hell...see?
And I don't think its the path that is far from you...

This is a war and no one knows, most of the people in these threads have already died

"the worst thing the devil can do is make you not beleive"

you guys think its nothing... but its here and you're losing.
Jesus is coming back you know

think and apply

The devil ruined my life, I won't let him kill me now
or as Jesus once said "It is finished"
so am I...

I owe him my life, not because I have to too
because I love him
maybe both, but I really think the second one.

He took me out of the line of fire
I don't care what anyone says now
And I know what side i'm fighting for now.
I will ignore all these theories that everyone will say
because I can't deny what happened to me, not for A second
I swear I won't
I'm sorry that a lot of you in here don't beleive in God
but you have to know he hasn't given up on you.

God isn't the bad guy, At leaste I don't think so

Sometimes I think about New York 9-11
those people didn't know an airplane was going to hit them that day
they didn't know there lives would end
would you have predicted and airplane was going to crash into your work building...no
no one knows when there life will end

and if you think you can leave these message boards and think you have another day to live...you just don't know...

and I read it from that one guy who posted who said he was saved and then beleived he was just blinded or whatever.

It was like a story my favorite pastor told me...

when Moses took all the people out of slavery and they were celebrating and rejoicing and so happy but right when they thought they were going to be killed by the pharoes soldiers, they started complaining and getting angry... and that was it
that was him
yeah the devil will let us rejoice in being saved he will let us have our victory but hes coming back to get us and thats when we have to choose who we're for...

I chose...
i'm not looking back.