Christianity vs Atheism: The Facts

reply to post by Annee


But you just told me your lack of belief in a deity is caused by your lack of education.

Or is a symptom of such.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

But you just told me your lack of belief in a deity is caused by your lack of education.

Or is a symptom of such.

Nice attempt at twisting meanings. Try again.

Don't play stupid mind games with me.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

But you just told me your lack of belief in a deity is caused by your lack of education.

Or is a symptom of such.

Nice attempt at twisting meanings. Try again.

Don't play stupid mind games with me.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

You are arguing with an Atheist - - who knows her Atheism - - and telling me I am wrong.

Bottom line: Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - no studying required.

Both of the quotes directly above are taken from your posts. This is clear evidence of the implication I pointed out (lack of education/studying = atheism) in what you apparently call "stupid mind games". If logic is stupid to you, then what are you doing here?

Don't accuse me of stupid games...I only play stupid games with stupid people.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

But you just told me your lack of belief in a deity is caused by your lack of education.

Or is a symptom of such.

Nice attempt at twisting meanings. Try again.

Don't play stupid mind games with me.

You are arguing with an Atheist - - who knows her Atheism - - and telling me I am wrong.

Bottom line: Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - no studying required.

Both of the quotes directly above are taken from your posts. This is clear evidence of the implication I pointed out (lack of education/studying = atheism) in what you apparently call "stupid mind games". If logic is stupid to you, then what are you doing here?

Don't accuse me of stupid games...I only play stupid games with stupid people.

No one needs an education to understand the dictionary's correct definition of Atheist.

Simple.

reply to post by Annee

No one needs an education to understand the dictionary's correct definition of Atheist.

Simple.

a·the·ism/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
Noun:
The theory or belief that God does not exist.


Atheism is just as much a belief as Christianity is. I think that makes it a religion. You can neither prove nor disprove...which makes it simple faith. Doesn't that define all religions?

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

No one needs an education to understand the dictionary's correct definition of Atheist.

Simple.

a·the·ism/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
Noun:
The theory or belief that God does not exist.

Atheism What is Atheism?

What is atheism? is usually the one question never asked of most atheists. Most people do not ask this question because they already have their own ideas about what atheism is and what atheists are. Where these ideas originate vary.

Older dictionaries define atheism as a belief that there is no God and/or denial of God. Some dictionaries go further and say that atheism is wickedness, sinfulness, heathenism, paganism, and immorality. Some dictionaries even say that atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. At least The American Heritage ® Dictionary says God and gods after the word doctrine, but that does not detract from the fact that use of the word doctrine is incorrect.

The fact that the dictionary's definition uses the phrase there is no God betrays the theistic influence in defining the word atheism. If dictionaries did not contain such influence, then the definition would read, A belief that there are no gods. The use of god in singular form, with a capital G, is indicative of Christian influence. atheists.org...

Originally posted by Starchild23
Atheism is just as much a belief as Christianity is. I think that makes it a religion. You can neither prove nor disprove...which makes it simple faith. Doesn't that define all religions?

Is Atheism a belief system or religion?

Theists usually define atheism incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a belief system. Atheism is not a religion.

Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, from the original Greek meaning of \without gods.\ That is it. There is nothing more to it. If someone wrote a book titled \Atheism Defined,\ it would only be one sentence long.

Let us look at the different definitions of religion and see if atheism belongs in any of them.

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

No atheism resides in that definition. Atheists do not believe in a supernatural power or powers.

2. Beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

atheists.org...

reply to post by Annee


Apparently, you don't understand the fact that since you can never disprove God, that makes His nonexistence a belief. A belief that our inverse, and reality itself, came from a very mundane, naturally-occurring process. That something just happened to explode and very, very, VERY randomly achieve the precise balance required to sustain life.

re·li·gion
   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

And religion, according to this, is a belief of something CREATING the universe.

Both are beliefs. Both follow the same outline, albeit from different ends of the field. Both focus on the same though, and neither can be solidly, irrefutably proven.

Thus, they are both religions.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

Apparently, you don't understand the fact that since you can never disprove God, that makes His nonexistence a belief.

The concept of a god would first have to be recognized to then say I do not believe.

Lack of belief in something is not a belief. It is a nothing. A void.

Science takes a different road. They know what they know. And they know what they want to pursue to learn about. It is a choice.

Science would have a Hypothesis:

A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. The term derives from the Greek, ὑποτιθέναι – hypotithenai meaning "to put under" or "to suppose".[1] For a hypothesis to be put forward as a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.[1] en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

Apparently, you don't understand the fact that since you can never disprove God, that makes His nonexistence a belief.

The concept of a god would first have to be recognized to then say I do not believe.

Lack of belief in something is not a belief. It is a nothing. A void.

Science takes a different road. They know what they know. And they know what they want to pursue to learn about. It is a choice.

Science would have a Hypothesis:

A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. The term derives from the Greek, ὑποτιθέναι – hypotithenai meaning "to put under" or "to suppose".[1] For a hypothesis to be put forward as a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.[1] en.wikipedia.org...

Hardly. If you give it definition, if you can say it's a belief in something (for nonexistence is still a concept, as nothingness is a concept, an idea put into words) then it is NOT a lack of belief. If I believe that there is no car on that street, that is better than simply knowing it. Considering the true factor (should there in fact be a car that I can't see, perhaps because I don't want to) I wouldn't know it...I would only believe it.

The person who can see the entire story will always know fact from fiction. No one in the human race knows the whole story.

How do you know that religion isn't merely coded secrets, and science is the medium by which to decrypt it? Science is much younger than religion...remember that. Scientists may someday discover something (or many things) with astonishing parallels to the Bible.

Please - - go argue with these people. I am done with this particular subject in this thread.

Atheism is Not a Belief System (Does This Really Need Repeating?)

By Austin Cline, June 11, 2007 Over and over again, atheists have to keep repeating the fact that atheism is not a belief system, an ideology, a religion, a philosophy, or anything similar. What makes this especially annoying is that even if we pretend that atheism were just the denial of the existence of gods rather than a mere disbelief in god, that still wouldn't qualify as a belief system — a single belief cannot be a belief system. Thus, the most common misunderstanding about atheism contradicts this misunderstanding, but it still has to be corrected on a regular basis. Stan Nelson, news editor of the Pueblo Chieftain, writes: Christians always should pay attention when atheists speak, and especially when they take the lectern in the public square. They bring up a lot of important points that believers should think about. For one example, Dawkins' strong suit is his argument against the rationality of belief in God. Unfortunately, not everything he writes is as fair or as accurate: The truth is that atheism and religion stand on the same, blood-soaked level, one as culpable as the other. But the reason for that is atheism and religion are not strict opposites. Atheism is not the opposite of religion, but of faith, specifically in God or, for that matter, any god or gods. Religion is the demonstration of faith, defined in prosaic terms in James' epistle: "To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." atheism.about.com...

Atheism Is Not a Belief: A Definition of Atheism

Although many people think it and many dictionaries suggest it, atheism is not a belief at all. In fact, it is simply a lack of belief in a god. Checking several dictionaries, I found a variety of ways it is defined. In one, the definition of atheism was, "The doctrine or belief that there is no God or gods." Nonsense! Not all dictionaries define atheism in the same way, but many make this mistake of equating a lack of belief with a belief in an opposing view. Definitions I found included, "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God," and even "Godlessness; immorality." That last one is half right at least. www.999ideas.com...

Atheism is Not a Religion

This is a refrain I’m hearing a lot from religious apologists – atheism is a religion. Also its equally fallacious siblings, science is a religion and evolution is a religion. It’s a sign of their desperation that the best argument they have is not that atheism is wrong, or that god does exist (supported by evidence of course), but that atheism is a religion too. A strange argument for a religious person to make on the face of it. Is it supposed to strengthen the atheist’s position or weaken the theist’s one? In reality it’s a sign they have run out of arguments. Still, this argument is widely made, and so it needs to be addressed. Atheism (and here I mean the so-called “weak atheism” that does not claim proof that god does not exist), is just the lack of god-belief – nothing more and nothing less. And as someone once said, if atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby. skeptico.blogs.com...

Myth: A Lack of Belief is Still a Belief, so Atheism is a Belief in No God Do Atheists Really Have a Belief or Faith Despite Claims to the Contrary?

By Austin Cline, When religious theists are informed that atheism is not "belief that God does not exist," as they previously assumed, but rather that atheism is really defined as the "lack of belief in the existence of any gods" or simply "disbelief in gods," many get defensive. Perhaps they cannot accept being mistaken about something, or perhaps they realize how many of their assumptions and arguments about atheism and atheists fall apart in light of the real definition. Either way, be prepared for a fight. What's especially disconcerting about the above myth, commonly offered in response to being told that atheism is just a lack of belief in gods, is how insanely incoherent it is. If I told someone that lacking hair is still having hair, or lacking a hobby is itself a hobby, they'd probably ask whether I've been feeling OK and might even suggest counseling. atheism.about.com...

reply to post by Annee


I have one more question. If it is not a religion, or a belief (which is very similar to religion) then what is it?

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

I have one more question. If it is not a religion, or a belief (which is very similar to religion) then what is it?

Its a noun/adverb.

I am very aware of ONE. And I do have "belief" in that area - as energy. I will never refer to it as God. God is a man made concept.

Being Atheist does not mean I can not think in a certain direction.

I believe the Terra Papers are probably closer to the truth then anything else. But that would be a real event - involving real beings of off-planet origin.

reply to post by Starchild23


A car is a real thing – we can all examine a car and we can all know what a car is

So is there a car on the street can be answered with simple binary (yes/no) logic

But there is a collection of things that humans are known to have been cooked up in their imaginations – such as pixies/unicorns/god(s)/ect and to believe in anything from this imaginary menagerie requires something called faith (faith = believing in stuff with no evidence)

If someone reported seeing a god wondering around on the street would you just believe it (have faith in the report)?

If you answer yes – then you have to accept that other people might not share your faith

If you answer no – then you can understand where atheists are coming from (and if when you get someone telling you that you should have faith in the report or that particular god will get you and hurt you forever and ever when you are dead because you didn’t have that faith.
Or you get some nitwit who says not having faith in my belief just means you really do have faith (its just some sort of mathematical negative inversion of that faith) – and you think they are nuts then that’s the atheist mindset again

If you answer sorry mate you are going to have to provide some testable verifiable evidence before I believe any of that and no I am not giving you any money for your temple or totems and no you are not going to ‘care’ for my children and until you do provide some real evidence stfu - then that’s the atheist mindset again

reply to post by racasan

A car is a real thing – we can all examine a car and we can all know what a car is

So is there a car on the street can be answered with simple binary (yes/no) logic

No. You are assuming complete sanity and a willingness to observe the truth. As I said before, I know a man who can wander out into the Sahara desert and still have coffee with a penguin. To us, the penguin isn't real, isn't even existent...but as long as it's in his head, it is real to him.

There are people who believe so strongly that the CIA is after them, that they are being hunted by shadowy figures, or that squirrels are plotting their demise (see "Patch Adams" starring Robin Williams) that they actually see them. They are very real in their own mind...

Perception is a series of electrical transactions within the brain. Should those synapses be influenced by a chemical imbalance, or a powerful desire to believe or disbelieve, you could either see that car as clear as day, or not see it at all. It all depends on what you want, and how you see things.

But there is a collection of things that humans are known to have been cooked up in their imaginations – such as pixies/unicorns/god(s)/ect and to believe in anything from this imaginary menagerie requires something called faith (faith = believing in stuff with no evidence)

Fairy tales invented to amuse children. More powerful entities (Zeus and Thor, not to mention other mystical creatures) were invented to explain nature and the world around us. Religion first started as a preclude to science.

If someone reported seeing a god wondering around on the street would you just believe it (have faith in the report)?

I would not believe it right away because we all define God differently, and imagine God differently. How do I know that their definition is accurate? How do I know that mine is, for that matter? How do I know that any of us can tell when we see God? What if we mistake God for a cloud, or maybe an insect? A random bum on the street?

Do you get my point?

If you answer no – then you can understand where atheists are coming from (and if when you get someone telling you that you should have faith in the report or that particular god will get you and hurt you forever and ever when you are dead because you didn’t have that faith.

I do understand where atheists are coming from. I also understand where Christians are coming from. They are fighting the war on human entropy, without really understanding exactly what they are doing. But whatever they need to be told to do the right thing...as long as they follow the right path for some of the right reasons, even if the reasons are told in metaphor.

And atheists don't want to do the right thing for the sake of metaphors. They want to know the truth of why they are doing it, so they can truly understand the world. Also, they feel insulted that they should be bribed with a blatant lie just to behave...as well as insulted when half the world thinks they are mislead.

However, my beliefs do not entirely match any modern faith or science. Everything is right...to an extent. The quest is to find out which parts are correct. The quest is to assemble the truth, and find out where we fit.

If you answer sorry mate you are going to have to provide some testable verifiable evidence before I believe any of that and no I am not giving you any money for your temple or totems and no you are not going to ‘care’ for my children and until you do provide some real evidence stfu - then that’s the atheist mindset again

There are a dozen churches in my area that will wash clothes, provide showers, share meals, and give out donations (clothes, hygiene products, camping supplies) without receiving a single dime. And they do it repeatedly. They are ib]happy to provide these services, to make sure the poor and homeless are taken care of and kept healthy. I've gone to a few lunches, and never have I heard them complain about serving the community, as long as those in need are taken care of. If you dare imply that churches in general are in the business of religion strictly for the money, or largely for the money, you are a complete fool.

Also, if you need something in front of your eyes in order to believe God, I suggest you look around. Give us 10 years and a few billion in green, and we wouldn't be able to build a tree from scratch. Something did. The Law of Probability states that the chances of our world forming as it did, and the universe itself being compatible for life, were impossible odds. And yet here we are.

Maybe this will clear the matter up for you :

I believe in God, too. I just don't think he's the bloodthirsty ***hole you make him out to be.

You could believe in a god...just not the Christian one.

reply to post by Starchild23


There is probably a list of gods somewhere on the internet – now if we both went through this list and crossed off the ones we think are just the stuff of imagination –I will assume there will be one name left on your list (and none on my list)

So what is it that you think identifies your choice as the right one (not imaginary like the others) and what evidence can you show to someone else to prove your case?

And does your faith have the usual carrot and stick consequences of reward/punishment for faith/none faith?

Why is it important to you that others also have your faith?

What advantages does your faith give as compared to not having that faith or having a different faith?

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by Starchild23

 

There is probably a list of gods somewhere on the internet – now if we both went through this list and crossed off the ones we think are just the stuff of imagination –I will assume there will be one name left on your list (and none on my list)

So what is it that you think identifies your choice as the right one (not imaginary like the others) and what evidence can you show to someone else to prove your case?

And does your faith have the usual carrot and stick consequences of reward/punishment for faith/none faith?

Why is it important to you that others also have your faith?

What advantages does your faith give as compared to not having that faith or having a different faith?

Actually...there would be no names left on the list. Not for me, anyway.

Why? Because people define "god" in a certain way. The definition varies, certainly; however, I don't think anyone has really defined it correctly. And until that definition is found, and a name given, that list will remain forever crossed off.

And in the end, when a name is chosen...I will reject that name as well, because God is everything. Which means, you can't give it a name.

My choice is not imaginary. My choice is real. Science can confirm it...in about 50 or so years. The question is, will the Church let that information be revealed? Or will eternal hatred for science cause the Church to pay those scientists to bury the secret deep, and never speak of it again?

My faith follows the natural laws of "you get what you give". Energy is given out, and energy is received. Opportunities are created, money is made...or blood is paid. Whatever you do, will be brought back to you. However you look at the world, such your life will become. Whatever lifestyle you adhere to, the corresponding results will be delivered into your life.

It is all natural.

My faith does not rely on fairy tales. It relies on science, the one thing that never fails if you have the right equipment and the right numbers. Science has defined fire, gravity, and revealed the table of elements, has enabled us to reach the moon, is currently allowing us to view other planets, has produced cures for all sorts of ailments as well as machinery to replace our flesh, and many other things.

Your faith has given us two things: a reason to hope, and a reason to fight. Also, it just doesn't plug into the natural "gotta have it" system of the numan psyche, which corporations are taking full advantage of.

In essence, your faith is weak and groundless. My faith explains everything...even if you can't reconcile it. And if you can't, that's your problems. Should have studied science more instead of talking to an invisible being who deliberately sent itself to commit suicide for an ungrateful race that it created entirely for the purpose of worshiping it.

Yep. That was totally gonna pan out. Right.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

I have one more question. If it is not a religion, or a belief (which is very similar to religion) then what is it?

Its a noun/adverb.

I am very aware of ONE. And I do have "belief" in that area - as energy. I will never refer to it as God. God is a man made concept.

Being Atheist does not mean I can not think in a certain direction.

I believe the Terra Papers are probably closer to the truth then anything else. But that would be a real event - involving real beings of off-planet origin.

edit on 14-4-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

And it does not share similarities with god?

By the way, I follow that belief. That is why I consider myself neither Christian nor atheist. Because I believe in something we could call a "god",...unfortunately, we lack the precise terminology and understanding to accurately define it.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

I have one more question. If it is not a religion, or a belief (which is very similar to religion) then what is it?

Its a noun/adverb.

I am very aware of ONE. And I do have "belief" in that area - as energy. I will never refer to it as God. God is a man made concept.

Being Atheist does not mean I can not think in a certain direction.

I believe the Terra Papers are probably closer to the truth then anything else. But that would be a real event - involving real beings of off-planet origin.

And it does not share similarities with god?

I lack belief in god.

By the way, I follow that belief. That is why I consider myself neither Christian nor atheist. Because I believe in something we could call a "god",...unfortunately, we lack the precise terminology and understanding to accurately define it.

Yes - I know you follow that belief (or similar) - - which is why I posted what I did. I thought it would be "friendly" and reduce frustration. To let you know we are not opposites - - only that I see it a bit differently.

I realize some call any consciousness/force God. I do not - - and I will not. I do/will perceive it from a science perspective only.

Originally posted by Starchild23
Actually...there would be no names left on the list. Not for me, anyway.

Why? Because people define "god" in a certain way. The definition varies, certainly; however, I don't think anyone has really defined it correctly. And until that definition is found, and a name given, that list will remain forever crossed off.

And in the end, when a name is chosen...I will reject that name as well, because God is everything. Which means, you can't give it a name.

Ah yes the Tao which can be named is not the true Tao

Your faith has given us two things: a reason to hope, and a reason to fight. Also, it just doesn't plug into the natural "gotta have it" system of the numan psyche, which corporations are taking full advantage of.

In essence, your faith is weak and groundless. My faith explains everything...even if you can't reconcile it. And if you can't, that's your problems. Should have studied science more instead of talking to an invisible being who deliberately sent itself to commit suicide for an ungrateful race that it created entirely for the purpose of worshiping it.

Charles, noooo! Get outta my head!111!!!!!!

Yep. That was totally gonna pan out. Right.

Wait – you do know I’m an atheist - right?
(as in I don't have faith in any theistic religion)