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Tip Of The Iceberg--The Beginning Of The End For Britain? {Brit returns hometown 2 assess Muslim}
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reply to post by yuppa
I . . . '98%' agree.
Certainly satan is the target--in our SPIRITUAL--PRAYER AND FASTING WARFARE.
Certainly coercion is antethetical, wholesale against the whole spirit of daily CHOOSING to take up our cross and follow Jesus.
Islam has a verse or 3 against coercion . . . they just have dozens more advocating, ordering heavy-handed coercion.
We are to judge ourselves in some respects.
And, to judge a brother's BEHAVIOR as to whether it be consistent with The Word of God . . .
but not, per se, to judge character, personhood.
And to realize that unfitting, fleshy, personal judgment WILL cause us to fall to the same thing we judge others for.
Actually the song is not a call to war against anyone but satan. Now AS to war means acting like they are marching to war. The FOE is once again Satan. Its not to be taken literally unless the antichrist is on earth and we are marching for armageddon. Now as far as the condoms issue it should be down to free will once again. We are not supposed to force anything on anyone. If they want to have sex we are supposed to let them and not judge either.
I . . . '98%' agree.
Certainly satan is the target--in our SPIRITUAL--PRAYER AND FASTING WARFARE.
Certainly coercion is antethetical, wholesale against the whole spirit of daily CHOOSING to take up our cross and follow Jesus.
Islam has a verse or 3 against coercion . . . they just have dozens more advocating, ordering heavy-handed coercion.
We are to judge ourselves in some respects.
And, to judge a brother's BEHAVIOR as to whether it be consistent with The Word of God . . .
but not, per se, to judge character, personhood.
And to realize that unfitting, fleshy, personal judgment WILL cause us to fall to the same thing we judge others for.
Originally posted by yuppa
Actually the song is not a call to war against anyone but satan. Now AS to war means acting like they are marching to war. The FOE is once again Satan. Its not to be taken literally unless the antichrist is on earth and we are marching for armageddon.
Not referring to the song itself, but the mindset of christians. Why is the song not about Onward loving children? Why does there always have to be a battle of some kind? Almost everything in the bible is about violence, war, killing, sacrificing... Even Jesus is brutally murdered. God kills everyone in a flood. God kills all the firstborn of Egypt. Kill, kill, kill.
edit on 4/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by old_god
I realize there are those as you describe.
What governments are they in charge of?
What trends are they leading in Islam?
How often do they prevent violence?
etc.
In many respects, your assertions would indicate that the noisy violent activist folks are not authentic Moslems. They would insist that you are not.
Who decides?
Unfortunately my friend this is a battle the majority are trying hard to fight but it becomes difficult when elements in your own government and country fuel the fire (in a manner of speaking) by funding these groups and promoting them by giving them maximum air time.
Many many scholars and "authentic" Muslims have wanted to voice their opinion however they are not able to because they are either ignored by the media (not sensational enough or too dangerous to put an intellectual on air).
As for being in power, again unfortunately when you have the likes of the US, UK and Europe being directly involved in the appointment of tyrants (who they then bring down later) it's hard to get into a position of power to make a positive change or to at least be of an influence in the ruling circle, they are either shunned completely or they are labelled both at home and abroad as "Islamists".
As for trends, there are many examples, but the one that appeals to me is humility and patience. All of these scholars, like Dr Timothy Winters and Hamza Yusuf who have brought about positive change to people around the world (The type of change that is required to live in a modern world).
Just because someone shouts the loudest doesn't always mean that person is the right and you will find with a lot of these Salafi's and Wahabi's they shout very loudly but unfortunately they seem to get the most air time.
The truth of the matter is that Islam is wide and varied, however people on ATS and wider have assumed everything to be one and the same which is not true.
The same way if I state that everyone person in this world is black, this statement is simply not true (but seems to be ringing bells as we enter another age of racial hatred).
I don't claim to know everything, but I am have tried to present a fair and balanced answer where I can to stop others from falling into the realm of biased assumptions but equally I am not ignorant and I know there are elements in our community that need to be dealt with.
But I am hopeful, there seems to be a resurgence of the true Islam appearing amongst the youth, those that don't fit the stereotype, white, black, asian etc who are educated, not culturally biased and making a positive contribution to society - god willing, these will be the people who bring about change in the community.
reply to post by old_god
It really gets old blaming the west for the problems with Islam.
When I look at attempts at nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan, I see an exercise in futility. It isn't the west's fault that Islam consistently fails.
The nations of Islam have been struggling with horrible atrocities long before western powers became dominant.
It really gets old blaming the west for the problems with Islam.
When I look at attempts at nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan, I see an exercise in futility. It isn't the west's fault that Islam consistently fails.
The nations of Islam have been struggling with horrible atrocities long before western powers became dominant.
reply to post by old_god
Excellent and encouraging points.
I pray they are more true than my skepticism would expect them to be.
Much appreciate your kind reply.
May the God of Abraham lead all WHO SEEK HIM into a close RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
Excellent and encouraging points.
I pray they are more true than my skepticism would expect them to be.
Much appreciate your kind reply.
May the God of Abraham lead all WHO SEEK HIM into a close RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
reply to post by poet1b
Now, now.
Ya simply gotta stop saying things I agree with. People might start to talk about our wierd relationship.
Good points, well made. Thanks.
Now, now.
Ya simply gotta stop saying things I agree with. People might start to talk about our wierd relationship.
Good points, well made. Thanks.