Could this be what hit the WTC?

reply to post by holywar666


wow~! S&F for this, I always thought it was a missle that hit the towers but, after looking at the JASSM video, I now believe it was a commerical jet coverted in to a massive JASSM. It 'MAY' have looked like a commerical jet liner especially when it's flying at 567 MPH (cruise speed) even at 350mph .. that's still fast enough to NOT be able to really see any detail but just the outline of the aircraft itself...

How fast is 250mph you ask ? check this video out.. to get an idea ..this is going at 267mph..99% of the videos you see on you tube of the 'plane' hitting the towers, it angle is such that all you'll be able to see is the outline..

Originally posted by Myendica
First off.. Some people need to look at stuff on their own. Those who side with a specific member on topics, because their posts get stars, have no business giving opinions. Just cause a member gets stars for comments doesnt make their comments true. Or good. This very well could be what hit the wtc. We havent been shown the most conclusive images, and probably never will. Theres a very good chance it really was a plane. But all these points, make very little dent in figuring out who, why and what else. Dont diregard something you havent looked at becausee anyone else said its a hoax, or its bogus, and it must be true by their wats index.. Thats all BS!

Someone getting lots of stars for a post,means that their words struck a responsive chord and a lot of people agree with what they said...

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Instead of planes, the government (or whomever) used special effects to fool everyone.
How? You continually refer to the ending of Star Wars. A great movie, by the way. But it has no bearing on your premise. There is a HUGE difference between the special effects in a movie and those used in a real-life situation.

What is the huge difference? Instead of people gathering in a movie theater, they gather around the television.
Think about the TV ratings during and after 9/11. It takes directors about 2 years to create a Hollywood flick. If Bin Laden was in charge of the 1993 WTC bombing, one could think 9/11 was already in the plans back then.

Lets get back on topic with the missiles.

Here is the impact at Shanksville.










Looks like missile impact

reply to post by holywar666

Lets get back on topic with the missiles.

No problem.

Have you looked into the size of the missile?

Length: 4.27 m (14 ft)
Wingspan: 2.4 m (7 ft 11 in)
Weight: 975 kg (2,150 lb)

link

Lets look at the picture you provided.


Lets use the men standing there a rough scale.

If the missile has a wingspan of only 7ft 11 inches. Then why does that hole's wingspan look much, much bigger?

Here is the wingspan of the 767

767-200 767-200ER 767-300 767-300ER 767-300F
Wingspan 156 ft 1 in
(47.6 m)

767-400ER
170 ft 4 in(51.9 m)

link

Here is the other pic you posted.

That wingspan is definitely way bigger than 8 feet long.

Here is a little info on the missile I thought was interesting.

In 1999, powered flight tests of the missile began. These were successful, and production of the JASSM began in December 2001. The weapon began operational testing and evaluation in 2002. Late that year, two missiles failed tests and the project was delayed for three months before completing development in April 2003. Two more launches failed, this time as a result of launcher and engine problems. In July 2007, a $68 million program to improve JASSM reliability and recertify the missile was approved by the Pentagon.[1] A decision on whether to continue with the program was deferred until Spring 2008.[2] Lockheed agreed to fix the missiles at its own cost and has tightened up its manufacturing processes.[3]

.
link


Would TPTB really use an unproven weapon in a mission of this scale? What if it failed?

With the wingspan and the reliability of this weapon I feel that these are really good questions, questions that I think needs to be addressed.

I would really like to hear/read your opinion on this matter. I am here to deny ignorance and want the facts. I took the time to make a serious post in your thread so please take this seriously, and if you would, please reply with facts and links.

ETA: I am not trying to be an arse. I do take this subject pretty seriously. I know that I have some less than stellar replies and I apologize..

Originally posted by liejunkie01

Would TPTB really use an unproven weapon in a mission of this scale? What if it failed?

With the wingspan and the reliability of this weapon I feel that these are really good questions, questions that I think needs to be addressed.

Would TPTB really be honest to the public about ANYTHING that has to do with 9/11? Could those pictures i posted be doctored/manipulated? Luke Skywalker can blow up the Death Star 20 + years ago, but we cant fake an impact picture?

Just because a source says one thing, may not make it factual. Is December 2001 not close enough to September 2001? Thats only 3 months after the attacks.

A missile capable of hitting the WTC is highly possible. You can guide it, mimic a plane explosion, plus its perfect size to doctor over a Boeing 767.





Who is to say the above angle wasn't pre-created, months if not years before 9/11?

Originally posted by liejunkie01
ETA: I am not trying to be an arse. I do take this subject pretty seriously. I know that I have some less than stellar replies and I apologize..

No problem, thanks for contributing to my thread

reply to post by holywar666

Would TPTB really be honest to the public about ANYTHING that has to do with 9/11?

How many people were in the area of the WTC on 9/11? The public was there.

Could those pictures i posted be doctored/manipulated?

Well, why did you post them to try to proove a point?

Here is the direct quote that you made.

Looks like missile impact

Were you not using those photos to come to your conclusion of a missile impact?

So you can use them to try to proove your point, but if I use them, they are fake

Luke Skywalker can blow up the Death Star 20 + years ago, but we cant fake an impact picture?

Do you have a serious obsession with Luke Skywalker or something? Bruce Willis landed on an comet/asteroid. Do we have the current means to do that?

Just because a source says one thing, may not make it factual.

But it is ok for you to keep posting crappy, poor edited Youtube videos with no proof of background info and use questionable truther links, and use them as "factual".

Is December 2001 not close enough to September 2001? Thats only 3 months after the attacks.

Read the rest of the little paragraph I posted. It said production began. Here is what it said right after that.

The weapon began operational testing and evaluation in 2002. Late that year, two missiles failed tests and the project was delayed for three months before completing development in April 2003. Two more launches failed, this time as a result of launcher and engine problems. In July 2007, a $68 million program to improve JASSM reliability and recertify the missile was approved by the Pentagon.[1] A decision on whether to continue with the program was deferred until Spring 2008.[2] Lockheed agreed to fix the missiles at its own cost and has tightened up its manufacturing processes.[3]

A missile capable of hitting the WTC is highly possible.

From what I have read, not the missile described in the op.

You can guide it, mimic a plane explosion, plus its perfect size to doctor over a Boeing 767.

Are you just ignoring all of the people that said they saw a plane, not to mention it was on live tv, and in front of thousands of people.

Who is to say the above angle wasn't pre-created, months if not years before 9/11?

Surely not another highly edited youtube video

reply to post by holywar666

Who is to say the above angle wasn't pre-created, months if not years before 9/11?


Did you ask your mom?

Originally posted by liejunkie01

How many people were in the area of the WTC on 9/11? The public was there.

Disney World in Florida is twice the size on Manhattan. That park fills up quick. If this was a pre-planned event, why does it seem impossible to fill certain area's with actors?

If there was any real "public" they most likely worked in the Towers below each crash site and were long evacuated before the collapse.

Do you have a serious obsession with Luke Skywalker or something? Bruce Willis landed on an comet/asteroid. Do we have the current means to do that?

Star Wars is a perfect example of how special effects can help manipulate film in whatever creative way you want. Its an old movie, why cant these tools be used in 2001? Ever notice how many frames were missing from the JFK assassination film reel? Same scenario, actors + special effects to create an event

reply to post by holywar666

A missile capable of hitting the WTC is highly possible. You can guide it, mimic a plane explosion, plus its perfect size to doctor over a Boeing 767.

Have you even closely looked at the impact zone on the towers?

Here is one of them.



Notice that a majority of the beams broke apart at the joints connecting the beam sections together. This is the weakest point that allowed the failure to occur. It just didn't happen in a 8 foot section. The damage coincides with that of a large winged aircraft. So large that I would like you to show me evidence of a missile this big, please do not say thermite caused the damage. That is another can of worms that I believe has been debunked numerous times on ATS already.

We can do the math together on the distance spanned from wing tip to wing tip. If you want. I really do not want to right now because I have a feeling that my efforts will be ignored or dodged.

You can sit there and speculate all you want.

The truth is in the facts.

I am not saying that I completely believe the OS. I do not quote from the NIST report.

I have completed my two year welding course in Welding Technologies. If you want to talk structural steel we can. The point being that all of the evidence does not suggest a missile impact.

Of course I feel that no matter what is said you will turn the other way and continue on with Luke Skywalker, just like you avoided my efforts in the wigspan of the Pennsyvania crater.

Quite frankly this is why I give up after a while on this subject. It seems that people want to sound educated, but completely ignore the evidence(real actual evidence) that we do have at our disposal.

I

reply to post by holywar666

Disney World in Florida is twice the size on Manhattan. That park fills up quick. If this was a pre-planned event, why does it seem impossible to fill certain area's with actors?

Did two planes crash into the MGM studio? If they did, I am sure that there would be witnesses. Witnesses that you would say were actors.

If there was any real "public" they most likely worked in the Towers below each crash site and were long evacuated before the collapse.

Dodging again. We were talking about a missile impact.

So you are saying there were people/public that witnessed the impact

Star Wars is a perfect example of how special effects can help manipulate film in whatever creative way you want.

The Star Wars thing again

Its an old movie, why cant these tools be used in 2001?

The better question is................Why would they need too?

Ever notice how many frames were missing from the JFK assassination film reel? Same scenario, actors + special effects to create an event

Your evidence, or lack of, is pretty poor for the topic at hand. The JFK thing is a whole different ball game and quite frankly after seeing the way you dodge the critical facts and evidence that points/prooves your missile theory bogus, I do not think I will be getting any JFK details from you.

Not trying to be too offensive but it is obvious and this is really how I feel.

reply to post by liejunkie01
I have different theories and different combinations of those theories,but none of them involve real foreign terrorists...

The passengers got onboard real airplanes,that were diverted away mid-flight and landed at a secret location and then the passengers were taken off and eliminated and then other similar planes were remotly flown into the towers...

A small price to pay,from tptb's perspectives,in order to get their war machine rolling and their industrial megabucks flowing,again...

Like when tptb forcibly prodded the japanese,by cutting off their countries access to oil and then allowing them to attack pearl harbor..

I think real jet liners hit the towers,the only problem is and its a really big problem,there was'nt anyone on the planes,they were remotely controlled and empty,filled with fuel and perhaps even lots of high tech explosives...

There were real passengers onboard and real pilots who suddenly lost control of the plane they were flying as the plane was switched over to remote contol mode and so the pilots were in the cockpit helpless and the passengers were more or less unaware,until some of them noticed a course change and or the pilots came out and told them what happened and then they all saw the towers getting closer and closer...

I feel especially terrible for the people in the second plane,if there really were people in it,because they could see one of the towers already burning and they knew they were quickly heading in the same direction and they were well aware that something was horribly wrong and that something evil was about to happen to them...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

I think real jet liners hit the towers,the only problem is and its a really big problem,there was'nt anyone on the planes,they were remotely controlled and empty,filled with fuel and perhaps even lots of high tech explosives ..Or...There were real passengers onboard and real pilots who suddenly lost control of the plane they were flying as they were switched over to remote contol mode and so the pilots were in the cockpit helpless and the passengers were more or less unaware,until some of them noticed a course change and or the pilots came out and told them what happened and then they all saw the towers getting closer and closer...

And all of that sounds more plausible than some highjackers taking control of a plane through fear of death?

I believe that will power(will power of the highjackers that is) can do some pretty amazing things. Such as coordinating an effort that has not ever been done before. Catching people completely by surprise and making their plans happen. Plans that they trained for and knew their "job" to the smallest detail.

I could possibly believe that the very top or, very few, of TPTB knew about it before hand and wanted a reason for military action which in turn becomes massive amounts of money for said individuals.

We know that they used this event to sway political agendas for more control over the masses with the overused term "terrorism".

But I really have a hard time believing remote controlled 767's.

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

.

The passengers got onboard real airplanes,that were diverted away mid-flight and landed at a secret location and then the passengers were taken off and eliminated and then other similar planes were remotly flown into the towers...

Why for Pete's sake. Why add those absurd complications and risks ? Where did the originals land ? You can't put a Boeing 767 down in a field..

I feel especially terrible for the people in the second plane,if there really were people in it,because they could see one of the towers already burning and they knew they were quickly heading in the same direction and they were well aware that something was horribly wrong and that something evil was about to happen to them...

edit on 31-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

You are not even being consistent. If planes were switched mid-flight how would they see the Towers approaching ?

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

This is only rumor and has never been confirmed - what Port Authorithy did was some engineer made some
"back of envelope" calculations to see if building would topple over if hit

en.wikipedia.org...

search aircraft impact...

As for pilots names

GOOGLE is your friend, Bring up Wikipedia enteries

Everyone on board died violently..I wonder how they know who was piloting the planes. There were apparently 19 hijackers...I guess pilots are the ones that registered for flight schools under their real names months before the attack.

Anyway...I think arguing over how it would/could have been done is pointless. There is never going to be a consensus.

The perfect destruction of the buildings is unbelievable. Makes me wonder why you even have to have demolition crews, months of planing, massive amount of work and manpower to bring such buildings down in such a perfect manner. Those guys are obviously faking it to make more money in construction/demolition. It is apparently much easier. Also...flying planes into the buildings is a piece of cake...any guy of a street can do it...which makes me wonder why we even have pilots.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Whenever I read threads that insinuate missiles were used, I always wonder "What happened to the plane?".

I mean, if a missile hit the pentagon, then where did the plane and it's passengers go? Are they on some remote island? Did TPTB secretly kill them and hide the bodies?

Families telling of talking to relatives on cell phones on the planes,even the pentagon incident,would be hard to fabricate/cover up.I don't know of many folks who would accept the sacrifice a loved one to facilitate such a hoax.Having said that,there are lots of unanswered questions.Many of them.

reply to post by PageAlaCearl


Complete and total fail. There were bodies, wreckage, personal belongings, and very definite wing damage to the facade of the Pentagon.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

It is apparently much easier. Also...flying planes into the buildings is a piece of cake...any guy of a street can do it...which makes me wonder why we even have pilots.

Hard parts are takeoffs and landings.... Hijackers just had to dive and steer plane into some of the largest
structures on earth

Hani Hanjour who hit Pentagon had taken simulator clases at Jet Tech in Mesa Arizona

His instructor checked off completing "steep turns" - they were no marks for taxiing/landing

Zacharias Moussaoui was arrested when told instructors wanted to learn to fly 747, but not the parts about
takeoff and landings which made them suscipous

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Whenever I read threads that insinuate missiles were used, I always wonder "What happened to the plane?".

I mean, if a missile hit the pentagon, then where did the plane and it's passengers go? Are they on some remote island? Did TPTB secretly kill them and hide the bodies?

Hi smy
All you need to know is in the Official Report called " Operation Northwoods "

The US military had the ole swithcherooo planned back in the early sixties.
They didn't get a chance to use it till 2001.
hope that helps ljb

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by liejunkie01

 

.

The passengers got onboard real airplanes,that were diverted away mid-flight and landed at a secret location and then the passengers were taken off and eliminated and then other similar planes were remotly flown into the towers...

Why for Pete's sake. Why add those absurd complications and risks ? Where did the originals land ? You can't put a Boeing 767 down in a field..

I feel especially terrible for the people in the second plane,if there really were people in it,because they could see one of the towers already burning and they knew they were quickly heading in the same direction and they were well aware that something was horribly wrong and that something evil was about to happen to them...

edit on 31-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

You are not even being consistent. If planes were switched mid-flight how would they see the Towers approaching ?

There are secret military bases where those planes and passengers could have been diverted to and landed at and actually,any military air base could have been used...

The planes were not switched mid-flight,the planes were switched from being flown by the pilots, to being flown remote controlled from the ground and the pilots,just casually flying the planes along, would have suddenly found themselves unable to control the planes flight controls anymore,because it was being flown by tptb, right into the towers,passengers and all...