Why there's good reason to believe the "Abomination that Causes Desolations" will happen this spr

Originally posted by Homedawg

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by hab22

 

You still ignore the fact that the temple has yet to be rebuilt.

ETA: This is the wrong forum. Why post it here?

edit on 29-3-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

It HAS been built...it's prefab and only has to be assembled in place..about 24hrs total

The "temple" isn't going to be rebuilt. We're in the New Covenant,
The "temple" is Christ's Church, the Roman Catholic Church.

It's pretty amazing how all of you believers who follow the same god can't agree with what the scripture is saying. There are so many different ideas for what these "prophetic" phrases mean, it's astounding. There are even more ideas from other believers that aren't mentioned on this site. Why aren't you all on the same page? Is this how vague the word of god is?

How is an unbeliever like me, someone who sits on the outside looking in, supposed to believe any of it when you guys can't even agree what the scripture is saying? And, I don't just speak for these few prophetic things you guys are talking about at the moment, I'm talking about the entire bible....Is that a fair question to ask?

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by hab22

 

The NIV and the NKJV are wrong. The word translated as "wing" is kanaph. Metaphorically, it can refer to a wing, but it more typically refers to an extremity of something (that is, the extreme part of something, whether physical or not). In this verse, grammatically, we have to say that the word is applied to the "abomination," indicating that it is an extreme abomination - or, as I render it, the overspreading of abominations. This refers to abominations existing to such an extent that they leave the city desolate. Hence, the abomination that causes desolation. Once again, Luke applies this to the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies, which most certainly left the city desolate. [/quote

Well, time will soon tell if my theory is correct about the abomination being set up this spring. When I refer to the abomination being set up on a wing of the temple, I do not mean so in the metaphorical sense, but in the literal sense, that it will be set up "in the extreme part" (as you well described it) of the temple, which is where I believe the Dome of the Rock is located. Revelation speaks of the "Court of the Gentiles" being given over to the forces of antichrist for 42 months. II Thes. speaks of the antichrist setting himself up "in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." This concurs with Isaiah 14, where the antichrist is called "king of Babylon" and "the Assyrian" who exalts himself above the throne of God.

The antichrist didn't appear in 70 AD to exalt himself in the temple, nor did the Messiah reappear to put down the rule of Satan over the world. I admit my theory requires a lot to happen, soon and very soon. I believe the March on Jerusalem which happens today could very well set into motion the events where Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (not necessarily tanks, but rather warriors on foot) that culminates in the abomination.

I suggest that many will not believe it until it happens. But when it does happen, there will be a need for explanation.

Hydroman,

I think it's a fair question.

The only answer is to examine it all for yourself to your own satisfaction and don't take anyone else's word for it.

reply to post by hab22


The reason why your quotes are failing is because you're leaving off the ] at the end of the word "quote". Just fyi.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis
I think it's a fair question.

The only answer is to examine it all for yourself to your own satisfaction and don't take anyone else's word for it.

Having my own interpretation solves nothing, just as it solves nothing for all these guys to have their own interpretation.

Now, christians claim that I don't understand the scriptures because the holy spirit is not guiding me to understand them. So, which of these guys is not being guided by the holy spirit? Are any of them? How do you know? See the dilemma?

The abomination that causes desolation is that the mass of mankind will very soon how to travel in space/time. Select groups (since the Egyptians and currently the Jesuits in Rome) have kept this knowledge secret to bolster their power over the generations. But with the coming of the 5th world, all the secrets will be placed on the table. For those who now control this planet will know that their time is short when the 5th world arises so they will need to "capture" as many receptacles (i.e. physical bodies) as they can before our Mother the Earth steps up consciousness and these ungodly ones loose their ability to manipulate and farm us for their own benefit. Our Mother will largely be stripped of all her children - who will forsake her through fear and ignorance to "escape" the coming of the 5th world into space/time. This is the abomination that causes desolation and has happened three times before....

motherearthfathersky.org...

Originally posted by Hydroman
Having my own interpretation solves nothing, just as it solves nothing for all these guys to have their own interpretation.

Now, christians claim that I don't understand the scriptures because the holy spirit is not guiding me to understand them. So, which of these guys is not being guided by the holy spirit? Are any of them? How do you know? See the dilemma?

You're right. There's no end to interpretations. And wrong interpretations are of zero value.

I'm the guy who started this thread.

As you can see, there are many, many views regarding the "abomination". You ask a very good question about the confusion that seems to result from so much debate.

What I can tell you is this: things are falling into place for the fulfillment of Scripture. For instance, Daniel 8, Daniel 11 and Luke 21 tell us there will be revolts and insurrections happening in the Middle East. This will create instability and will result in a huge uprising against Jerusalem (which is now starting to transpire).

According to Daniel 8, three horns (rulers) will be uprooted at the time of the insurrections. Daniel 11 tells us that Egypt will not escape, and the Libyans and Nubians will be in submission. I would suggest that when the rulers of Egypt, Libya and Tunasia (which includes the inhabitants of ancient Nubia) were overthrown in 2011, we saw a literal fulfillment of Scripture in Daniel 8 and 11.

I can show you more of what has already been fulfilled in Daniel 11 in recent years. I can give you a hint. It has a lot to do with Iraq, which is the land of ancient Babylon.

See, we are coming into a time of fulfillment and all will be made clear to those who want to know the truth and for those who want to come into relationship with the Eternal Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis
Hydroman,

I think it's a fair question.

The only answer is to examine it all for yourself to your own satisfaction and don't take anyone else's word for it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by Alpha Arietis because: (no reason given)

This doesn't work, no offense Alpha. God has revealed what the "abomination of desolation" is....

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

The "sacrifice" comes up again as written in Daniel but what's "in every place there is a sacrifice?" A priest offers sacrifice, we all agree. Every hour around the world the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered. The one time sacrifice of Our Lord is offered to the Father in an unbloody manner.

The "clean oblation" is the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice. The "abomination of desolation" takes
place when the anti-Christ abolishes the eucharistic sacrifice.

Why would the anti-Christ do this? The same reason Satanist's desecrate the Eucharist and mimic God with their black Masses.

Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist is true.

Originally posted by hab22
What I can tell you is this: things are falling into place for the fulfillment of Scripture.

According to your interpretation.

Originally posted by hab22
See, we are coming into a time of fulfillment and all will be made clear to those who want to know the truth and for those who want to come into relationship with the Eternal Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The biblical prophecies are so vague that you can interpret them to mean so many different things, as is evident in this tiny thread. There are many, many more ideas out there than what is even shown here.

Again, I ask you, how is an unbeliever like myself, who sits on the outside looking in, supposed to believe any of it? Yet, according to the bible, since I can't muster the faith to believe in it (which would possibly ensure that I ask for forgiveness from this god), I will burn for all eternity.....

Secondly, who is the holy spirit guiding here for the correct interpretation of the scripture, and how do you know?

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis
Hydroman,

I think it's a fair question.

The only answer is to examine it all for yourself to your own satisfaction and don't take anyone else's word for it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by Alpha Arietis because: (no reason given)

This doesn't work, no offense Alpha. God has revealed what the "abomination of desolation" is....

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

The "sacrifice" comes up again as written in Daniel but what's "in every place there is a sacrifice?" A priest offers sacrifice, we all agree. Every hour around the world the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered. The one time sacrifice of Our Lord is offered to the Father in an unbloody manner.

The "clean oblation" is the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice. The "abomination of desolation" takes
place when the anti-Christ abolishes the eucharistic sacrifice.

Why would the anti-Christ do this? The same reason Satanist's desecrate the Eucharist and mimic God with their black Masses.

Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist is true.

How is the antichrist going to abolish the Eucharistic sacrifice, if the Eucharistic sacrifice is taking place all over the world?

If you read Daniel 8 through 12 from the NKJV and compare with an online Hebrew Lexicon, you will see that the word "sacrifice" does not appear in the text. The antichrist will abolish "the daily" , which is a reference to the daily rituals taking place at the temple site in Jerusalem. I would suggest that the daily rituals are the prayers made at the Western Wall where devout Jews gather daily.

The antichrist will overtake Jerusalem. He may try to put an end to Eucharistic sacrifices worldwide, but as long a there is a Mass being said in places that are out of his reach of authority, those Eucharistic sacrifices will continue throughout the 42 months of Great Tribulation.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by hab22
What I can tell you is this: things are falling into place for the fulfillment of Scripture.

According to your interpretation.

Originally posted by hab22
See, we are coming into a time of fulfillment and all will be made clear to those who want to know the truth and for those who want to come into relationship with the Eternal Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The biblical prophecies are so vague that you can interpret them to mean so many different things, as is evident in this tiny thread. There are many, many more ideas out there than what is even shown here.

Again, I ask you, how is an unbeliever like myself, who sits on the outside looking in, supposed to believe any of it? Yet, according to the bible, since I can't muster the faith to believe in it (which would possibly ensure that I ask for forgiveness from this god), I will burn for all eternity.....

Secondly, who is the holy spirit guiding here for the correct interpretation of the scripture, and how do you know?

edit on 30-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Good questions, Hydroman.

I can tell you this. The Scriptures tell us at the time of the 42 month Great Tribulation, there will be "two witnesses" who will speak for God. They will be endued with great spiritual powers, similar to what Moses and Elijah had. Part of their job will be to dispel confusion, so that people such as yourself can see the truth clearly.

By the same token, the antichrist and his henchman, the false prophet will be endued by Satan with great deceptive powers, such as the ability to call down fire from the heavens. Their powers will deceive many.

So the question you ask about truth and deception is a very fair and central question to the times that we live in. Jesus said there would be many false prophets, false teachers and false messiahs...just as he said there would be many earthquakes in diverse places in the time preceding the abomination.

Start with Jesus and the cross. The basic truth of John 3:16 is an excellent place to start.

i think hab22 its right, there another dude doing the same thing but its on spanish you should check it out, something its happening on the next weeks...pentecostes2013.blogspot.mx... is the page.

Originally posted by hab22
Start with Jesus and the cross. The basic truth of John 3:16 is an excellent place to start.

Not really. That story doesn't make any sense. Why would an omnipotent god need a human blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins when he could see that someone was truly sorry without shedding innocent blood? That seems so barbaric. If any other culture requested animal or human sacrifice of innocent creatures, it would be disgusting, yet when the biblical god requests it, it is ok...?

Furthermore, the biblical god came in human form and sacrificed his own self unto himself as an appeasement to himself for a rule he created. That doesn't make any sense. But, the bible does say that the scriptures are foolishness to those who are perishing. I guess that only means one thing.....

Originally posted by colbe


This doesn't work, no offense Alpha. God has revealed what the "abomination of desolation" is....

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

The "sacrifice" comes up again as written in Daniel but what's "in every place there is a sacrifice?" A priest offers sacrifice, we all agree. Every hour around the world the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered. The one time sacrifice of Our Lord is offered to the Father in an unbloody manner.

The "clean oblation" is the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice. The "abomination of desolation" takes
place when the anti-Christ abolishes the eucharistic sacrifice.

Why would the anti-Christ do this? The same reason Satanist's desecrate the Eucharist and mimic God with their black Masses.

Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist is true.

I won't dispute that Malachi 1:11 is perhaps a reference to the Eucharist or Protestant Communion or both.

The verse doesn't, however "reveal what the 'abomination of desolation' is", as you claim. You have made that leap of logic yourself, at least in your post, by associating the sacrifice referred to in Daniel with the one referred to in Malachi.

I'm not of the belief that they refer to the same things.

As was pointed out in an earlier post, the "daily" referred to in Daniel 9:27, is slightly ambiguous. It's not necessarily the daily sacrifice.

The daily prayer at the Temple Mount, however, was an actual "stand in" for the daily sacrifice and certainly qualifies as being the "daily" spoken of by Gabriel. The prayer was cut off 3 1/2 years after Oslo, the seven year treaty, was signed, exactly as the prophecy said it would be ("in the middle of the "week"). These are facts that coincide perfectly with the prophecies that foresaw them.

These are also literal fulfillments, not metaphysical, or nebulous fulfillments.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by hab22
Start with Jesus and the cross. The basic truth of John 3:16 is an excellent place to start.

Not really. That story doesn't make any sense. Why would an omnipotent god need a human blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins when he could see that someone was truly sorry without shedding innocent blood? That seems so barbaric. If any other culture requested animal or human sacrifice of innocent creatures, it would be disgusting, yet when the biblical god requests it, it is ok...?

Furthermore, the biblical god came in human form and sacrificed his own self unto himself as an appeasement to himself for a rule he created. That doesn't make any sense. But, the bible does say that the scriptures are foolishness to those who are perishing. I guess that only means one thing.....

Why would you want to perish, and experience eternal death, Henchman, when the God of the universe whose nature is love offers you eternal bliss in a kingdom where there is no death and suffering? I don't understand why you blame God for sin, suffering and death. These were introduced into our world as a result of our forefather's rebellion against God.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

Originally posted by colbe


This doesn't work, no offense Alpha. God has revealed what the "abomination of desolation" is....

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

The "sacrifice" comes up again as written in Daniel but what's "in every place there is a sacrifice?" A priest offers sacrifice, we all agree. Every hour around the world the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered. The one time sacrifice of Our Lord is offered to the Father in an unbloody manner.

The "clean oblation" is the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice. The "abomination of desolation" takes
place when the anti-Christ abolishes the eucharistic sacrifice.

Why would the anti-Christ do this? The same reason Satanist's desecrate the Eucharist and mimic God with their black Masses.

Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist is true.

I won't dispute that Malachi 1:11 is perhaps a reference to the Eucharist or Protestant Communion or both.

The verse doesn't, however "reveal what the 'abomination of desolation' is", as you claim. You have made that leap of logic yourself, at least in your post, by associating the sacrifice referred to in Daniel with the one referred to in Malachi.

I'm not of the belief that they refer to the same things.

As was pointed out in an earlier post, the "daily" referred to in Daniel 9:27, is slightly ambiguous. It's not necessarily the daily sacrifice.

The daily prayer at the Temple Mount, however, was an actual "stand in" for the daily sacrifice and certainly qualifies as being the "daily" spoken of by Gabriel. The prayer was cut off 3 1/2 years after Oslo, the seven year treaty, was signed, exactly as the prophecy said it would be ("in the middle of the "week"). These are facts that coincide perfectly with the prophecies that foresaw them.

These are also literal fulfillments, not metaphysical, or nebulous fulfillments.

The Jews are still practicing their "daily" prayers at the Western Wall. No accord in Oslo has prevented that from continuing. On the other hand, should the Arabs gain control over Jerusalem at the time of the abomination, I would suggest that they will abolish the "daily" prayers at the Western Wall.

Jesus said the abomination would bring a time in which it would not be safe for Jews to live in Judea. He suggested they run for the hills without even packing their bags. I would suggest this time is quickly coming upon us, and should my Jubilee calendar be correct with 2015 as the next great Jubilee, then the spring of 2012 will be the time of the abomination.

Considering the "March on Jerusalem" starts in about an hour from now, today will be very telling as to how serious the Arabs and radical Islamics are in wanting to overtake Jerusalem. Keep watch on Jerusalem and may we pray for divine protection over His holy remnant in that dangerous part of the world.

Originally posted by hab22
Why would you want to perish, and experience eternal death, Henchman, when the God of the universe whose nature is love offers you eternal bliss in a kingdom where there is no death and suffering? I don't understand why you blame God for sin, suffering and death. These were introduced into our world as a result of our forefather's rebellion against God.

I don't want to perish, but I can't muster the faith to believe as you do. There are many other beliefs out there as well, yet I don't believe them either, and some of them also say that I will be punished for not believing. Should I just pick one and hope for the best?

Next, your god says that because of a mistake that someone thousands of years ago made, I too have to pay for it? How is that just? Would it be just for me to kill the descendants of Hitler, even though they may be good people and had nothing to do with what he did?

Third, I'm supposed to believe in this god because there's an ancient book about him? If that book did not exist, would any one know anything about this god?

Fourth, your god says that I deserve to burn forever. He says that the punishment of eternal torture in fire is a just punishment for me, the unbeliever, because I don't have the faith to believe in this ancient book, let alone all the other ancient texts which talk about a myriad of other gods. So, if I deserve it, I deserve it, right?

And again, how am I supposed to believe your holy book when you guys can't even agree on what it says? Not just the prophecies, but many other things as well. Do you see what I mean? Besides, I don't have the holy spirit helping me to understand the scriptures, so that's another strike I have against me. Without that, how am I supposed to understand and believe?

BTW, you didn't say which one of you had the holy spirit guiding them to the correct interpretation of the scripture. Just wondering if you knew who it was...?

p.s. Why resort to calling me names? I am trying to have a meaningful conversation. There is no need for that.

Originally posted by hab22

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis
Hydroman,

I think it's a fair question.

The only answer is to examine it all for yourself to your own satisfaction and don't take anyone else's word for it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by Alpha Arietis because: (no reason given)

This doesn't work, no offense Alpha. God has revealed what the "abomination of desolation" is....

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

The "sacrifice" comes up again as written in Daniel but what's "in every place there is a sacrifice?" A priest offers sacrifice, we all agree. Every hour around the world the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered. The one time sacrifice of Our Lord is offered to the Father in an unbloody manner.

The "clean oblation" is the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice. The "abomination of desolation" takes
place when the anti-Christ abolishes the eucharistic sacrifice.

Why would the anti-Christ do this? The same reason Satanist's desecrate the Eucharist and mimic God with their black Masses.

Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist is true.

How is the antichrist going to abolish the Eucharistic sacrifice, if the Eucharistic sacrifice is taking place all over the world?

If you read Daniel 8 through 12 from the NKJV and compare with an online Hebrew Lexicon, you will see that the word "sacrifice" does not appear in the text. The antichrist will abolish "the daily" , which is a reference to the daily rituals taking place at the temple site in Jerusalem. I would suggest that the daily rituals are the prayers made at the Western Wall where devout Jews gather daily.

The antichrist will overtake Jerusalem. He may try to put an end to Eucharistic sacrifices worldwide, but as long a there is a Mass being said in places that are out of his reach of authority, those Eucharistic sacrifices will continue throughout the 42 months of Great Tribulation.

hab, hi,

This is how, the false prophet, the non-Pope will change the words of consecration, the Eucharist will remain bread and wine.

The "continual sacrifice" to be abolished written several times in Danial
and the "sacrifice" spoken of in Malachi 1:11 is the Holy Sacrifice of the
Mass. There is no continual sacrifice or sacrifice in Protestantism.
Nor in Judaism.

Your last is correct, the Remnant, like the first Christians, in hidden
places, after anti-Christ takes control murders or rounds up those who won't take the chip, the Remnant at God's refuges will receive the Holy
Eucharist.

The NKJV, I looked it up, it does not read the same as the English translation of the first Bible (St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate) called the Douay-Rheims. www.drbo.org...

This is the New Covenant, there is no Jewish Temple, there is
no sacrifice offered at the "Western Wall" either and the wall is not considered a "sanctuary."

Daniel 8:11-13
[11] And it was magnified even to the prince of the strength: and it took away from him the continual sacrifice, and cast down the place of his sanctuary. [12] And strength was given him against the continual sacrifice, because of sins: and truth shall be cast down on the ground, and he shall do and shall prosper. [13] And I heard one of the saints speaking, and one saint said to another, I know not to whom that was speaking: How long shall be the vision, concerning the continual sacrifice, and the sin of the desolation that is made: and the sanctuary, and the strength be trodden under foot?



blessings,


colbe