The Chemtrail Hoax

Dear Emily,

I like your name. It sounds like it came right out of the annals of American history, like Betsy Ross and Daniel Boone.
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You said, �Cynicism is also a fraud-based activity based on categorical denial.�

A cynicism can be based on fraud, suspicion, truth or any combination. A cynicism is based on observation and experience, and may have nothing to do with denial, categorical or otherwise. Would you, please, rephrase that statement so that I might be able to understand what you meant. I have a confession to make: sometimes I�m a little dense.
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You claimed, �Carnicom and radarmatrix faithfully document the effects of chem-trails in the United States.�

Radarmatrix is an admitted, and proved to be, hoax. PERIOD
If you enjoy the fiction of a wild imagination, then by all means, do peruse radarmatrix.com. To believe that radar is capable of controlling the weather is like believing that an ant could pull a 20 mile long, fully loaded, freight train up a 45 degree incline.
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Then you confused me again by stating, �Carnicom's not the fraud. The person who is a fraud is the one who speaks without knowledge�.�

Well, which is it? Those two sentences contradict each other.
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�Flake off.�

??????????

that is buried deep in another forum.

I hope you find it as interesting and salient to this topic as I did:

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PROOF of Mind Control by the hated attorney

I�m an attorney in Texas. I have been searching for the truth. Here is the truth:

Your brain is being fried.
Your children�s brains are being fried.
I cannot and will not remain silent.
YOUR CHILDREN WILL DIE BEFORE THEIR NATURAL LIFESPANS...so this is for the children.

Old cowardly men hiding in bunkers deep under the Earth�s crust while the children suffer and then die is BULL#, and I don�t give a # if they have a problem with my telling the truth. I care about children, these monsters care about themselves.(Again, my Bar # is 24041495)

Please review my previous threads if you don�t know what I�m talking about. I am making a public allegation, which is supported (now) by objective facts which I will share.

TAKE ME TO COURT IF YOU DISAGREE...but that�s not what is going to happen, is it? I suppose I will "disappear", as I have been warned.

Okay, not what I had planned for my life...but I will give you the information. If I do "disappear"...please make use of it.

I have spent the weekend carefully reviewing evidence; including Patents. I will provide the Patents for mind-control (although this particular patent should only be used as a guideline. I am quite sure the actual scope exceeds even the excepts which you are about to read.)

I have also found the Patent(s) for the "towers".
I have found the Patent for Chemtrail distribution.
Chemtrails, as you will see, are to assist mind control.

These are extremely technical and long; so I will provide excerpts and ask you to PLEASE
look at the following U.S. Patent on your own and draw your own conclusions: however, I will provide salient exerpts. I included only a fraction of what you need to know; PLEASE read the patent on your own. Italicize are my own for emphasis. The following is an exact excerpt:

United States Patent: 3,951,134:


Apparatus and method for remotely monitoring and altering brain waves :

1.The demodulated waveform is then displayed for visual viewing and routed to a computer for further processing and analysis. The demodulated waveform also can be used to produce a compensating signal which is transmitted back to the brain to effect a desired change in electrical activity therein.

2. More specifically, high frequency transmitters are operated to radiate electromagnetic energy of different frequencies through antennas which are capable of scanning the entire brain of the test subject or any desired region thereof. The signals of different frequencies penetrate the skull of the subject and impinge upon the brain where they mix to yield an interference wave modulated by radiations from the brain�s natural electrical activity. The modulated interference wave is re-transmitted by the brain and received by an antenna at a remote station where it is demodulated, and processed to provide a profile of the suject�s brain waves. In addition to passively monitoring his brain waves, the subject�s neurological processes may be affected by transmitting to his brain, through a transmitter, compensating signals. The latter signals can be derived from the received and processed brain waves...

3. OBJECTS OF THE INVENTION

It is therefore an object of the invention to remotely monitor electrical activity in the entire brain or selected local regions thereof with a single measurement.

Another object is the monitoring of a subject�s brain wave activity through transmission and reception of electromagnetic waves.

Still another object is to monitor brain wave activity from a position remote from the subject.

A further object is to provide a method and apparatus for affecting brain wave activity by transmitting electromagnetic signals thereto.

Through these means, brain wave activity may be altered and deviations from a desired norm may be compensated. Brain waves may be monitored and control signals transmitted to the brain from a remote station.

Next: The Towers (you will be amazed)..they are constructed of the same material found in Chemtrails.

Cassandra aka Suzanne Minx (SUE ME COWARDS)

*******************

I notice ATS operates at a level of Denial of many of the effects and problems that people experience and attest to.

I'm sorry to see, that this is the case. My own experience with chem-trails is very person and very negative.

I hope you will take this testimony and think through the subject, just one more time before you toss it off.

Yes, Emily, there is mind control. It cannot be denied. It's commonly known as TV or television.

... Aspartame swells the brain.

... Fluoride truncates the corpus collossum of the brain. MOST tranquilizers, Zoloft and Prozac, are predominantly fluoride, to make it difficult to switch between foreground/background, left-brain/right-brain; dumb you down.

... Chlorine in water PLUS ammoniated dish soaps [ALL Palmolive dishsoaps] create a poison gas that dissolve the lungs [and your dish sponge].

... "They're" coming at us with every poison they can think of--NOT TO MENTION, the trails in the sky that make my heart POUND and POUND.

Hello. Though I've never posted here before, I have been watching this site for several years. It is a minor, but enjoyable part of my job.

Of all the discussions on ATS, the chemtrail discussion comes closest to the truth. I know this because I am a part of the team that makes it happen.

We have a few people working in key facilities to make sure that certain chemicals are added, randomly, into supplies of Jet A-1 and Jet A fuel. Though I work with people on the military side of this project, I do not know much about additives to JP-8 or similar fuels.

There are no specific areas that are being targeted, as far as I know. This is a global project with a global goal.

The goal is not mind control, creating illness or harming people in any way. The goal is averting an enviromental disaster. There are not supposed to be negative side effects, and everyone I work with is saddened when we hear of them.

I will be available to discuss details of this project at various times. This will be based completely on my free time - something that I cherish because of its rarity.

Originally posted by waltersmith
Hello. Though I've never posted here before, I have been watching this site for several years. It is a minor, but enjoyable part of my job.

Of all the discussions on ATS, the chemtrail discussion comes closest to the truth. I know this because I am a part of the team that makes it happen.

We have a few people working in key facilities to make sure that certain chemicals are added, randomly, into supplies of Jet A-1 and Jet A fuel. Though I work with people on the military side of this project, I do not know much about additives to JP-8 or similar fuels.

There are no specific areas that are being targeted, as far as I know. This is a global project with a global goal.

The goal is not mind control, creating illness or harming people in any way. The goal is averting an enviromental disaster. There are not supposed to be negative side effects, and everyone I work with is saddened when we hear of them.

I will be available to discuss details of this project at various times. This will be based completely on my free time - something that I cherish because of its rarity.

This has to be the most interesting post ever to have crossed my ways on this site.

Sometimes it feels wrong to me that conspiracy claimers always says that the government is working against the people, instead of for them. This seem somewhat illogical to me. The people working for the government are people just like you, just like me. They have loved ones, they have feelings, they want a future, just like you. Try to see them as individuals. The post above seem to attest the other side of the coin of the sometimes naive conspiracy; that the governments actually are working FOR us, for their citizens - as secret as their work might be.

Below follows another link to another somewhat summarizing chemtrail page, which I have found giving. aboutsilvermedicine.com...

Please, DO provide us with more information about your work - and perhaps even something that would verify your claims. You are most welcome back.

Oh, yes, I definitly want to see that verification.

Just what form of environmental damage are the so-called chemtrails suposed to protect us from?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Oh, yes, I definitly want to see that verification.

Just what form of environmental damage are the so-called chemtrails suposed to protect us from?

I'll take "ultra violet sunrays" for 100$... The more crap from us, the less ozone.

By the way, this is SO typical for the western world - adapting around the symptoms instead of HEALING THE REAL DECEASE.

You don't stop driving cars, you don't shut down the coal power plants, you don't throw away the spray cans.

No. You spray chemicals in the hemosphere.

Pathetic. It might work - but it's pathetic.

So you actually believe Mr. Smith?

If you do, I wouldn't go around calling anyone patheric, if I were you.

Like I said, I would need to see some hard core verification of his claims.

You go with U.V. I'm betting this is another Jim Phelps type scam. My money's on atmospheric floride.

Waltersmith says:

"Of all the discussions on ATS, the chemtrail discussion comes closest to the truth. I know this because I am a part of the team that makes it happen."


What a coincidence! Both Howard Roark and I are also CIA employees, too; and our full time job is to debunk All The People Who Are Getting Too Close To The Awful Truth and convincing them that they're wrong.

In addition, Captain Roark personally flies several of those chem-planes a month, just to keep his hand in. I used to, until I tuned 60 last December, now my only other job is to murder microbiologists and other people whom we can't shut up. That's one of the reasons we "counseled" Jeff Rense in 2002 and replaced him with a body double.

Hey, wait a minute! Aren't you that guy in the cubicle near the coffee-vending machine? I think we met last month at the Ms. Byrd's staff meeting. Yeah, I know you.

Listen, you keep your Volvo out of my parking place! When you've been here for a year, you'll get one too. You're lucky I didn't have Security boot your car, bubba!

"We have a few people working in key facilities to make sure that certain chemicals are added, randomly, into supplies of Jet A-1 and Jet A fuel. Though I work with people on the military side of this project, I do not know much about additives to JP-8 or similar fuels."

Well, if you hadn't called in sick last Wednesday, you would've gotten the memo.

"There are no specific areas that are being targeted, as far as I know. This is a global project with a global goal."

No, and you're not going to know anytime soon, either, as long as you keep blabbing details to the subjects here. You know what Byrd said about operatives breaking security! You're just lucky that Roark and I haven't turned you in.

"The goal is not mind control, creating illness or harming people in any way. The goal is averting an enviromental disaster. There are not supposed to be negative side effects, and everyone I work with is saddened when we hear of them.

Yeah, and if you had the Zebra 2A clearance, you'd be a lot more saddened, especially after the Tsunami we inadvertently induced in Indonesia last December. Thank God I wasn't the supervising operative for that region!!

"I will be available to discuss details of this project at various times. This will be based completely on my free time - something that I cherish because of its rarity."

Nothing personal, Smith, but if I spent as much time hanging around the coffee machine as you did, I'd be a little short on my free time too.

Anyway, don't forget to check in with either Byrd, Roark, or me before talking to the "subjects", and we'll see you next Saturday at the Company Picnic!

Originally posted by waltersmith
We have a few people working in key facilities to make sure that certain chemicals are added, randomly, into supplies of Jet A-1 and Jet A fuel. Though I work with people on the military side of this project, I do not know much about additives to JP-8 or similar fuels.

That I can believe, most of the arguments against chemtrails center around the manpower and equipment needed but in reality, this is the way it would be done. I don't believe in 'chem' trails but something has changed in jet fuel because the contrails have gotten far larger and far more persistent over the last few years. I've lived under a busy air traffic corridor for over 40 years and would only notice them occasionally, now it's a constant feature.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Anyway, don't forget to check in with either Byrd, Roark, or me before talking to the "subjects", and we'll see you next Saturday at the Company Picnic!

"i want to believe". you make it easy with a 'sarcastic' post like this one.
you and roarky boy ALWAYS show up on 911 and chemtrail threads. speaking of time, i'd love to add how much time you've collectively spent 'shredding'(too funny, reminds me of kenny lay or the contra affair) conspiracy 'theories' on these two topics. probably bought yourselves each a car.

Chemtrails are hoax?
Bull #. Stop your damn lying or mis information.

Here is fact:

They claim it is done to test global warming effects. Whether this reason they give is right or not is not what im disputing. What Im calling anyone who doesn't believe those are false clouds being made on purpose need stop kidding themselves or spreading lies. Here is the facts from a choking Bay area California area:


www.ca.sandia.gov...

August 26, 1997

Altitude record set in ARM-UAV program
LIVERMORE, Calif. - The Altus 2 UAV, built for the Atmospheric Radiation Measurement - Unmanned Aerospace Vehicle (ARM-UAV) program, has reached an all-time record altitude of 43,500 feet during flight demonstrations at Edwards Air Force Base in California.

Carrying a simulated payload of more than 300 pounds, this flight surpassed records of 41,600 feet set a week earlier. This milestone is just another in a series of successes for the Altus program.

Sandia National Laboratories, technical director for the multi-laboratory ARM-UAV program which is a U.S. Department of Energy global climate change research program, made the announcement in conjunction with General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc., and the Naval Postgraduate School. Host services were provided by NASA through the Dryden Flight Research Center and flight testing was done through the Center for Interdisciplinary Remotely Piloted Aircraft Studies (CIRPAS).

The Altus program has completed one deployment in the Fall of 1996 in support of the ARM-UAV Program at the Department of Energy Cloud and Radiation Testbed Site in north-central Oklahoma. This deployment consisted of UAV flights to investigate the interaction of clouds and solar energy in the atmosphere, culminating in a record-setting endurance flight of over 26 hours measuring the heating and cooling of the Earth's surface over a complete day/night cycle.

Altus is being developed as a high altitude, remotely piloted aircraft for climate research. Controlled from the ground, Altus offers the advantage of long endurance (up to 36 hours) and high altitude (up to 65,000 ft).

The ARM-UAV Program is conducting a month-long series of flights at the Cloud and Radiation Testbed Site in September to take advantage of the increased altitude capability of the Altus 2. These flights will continue research on the effect of atmospheric aerosols, water vapor, and clouds on global climate change.

Sandia is a multiprogram Department of Energy laboratory, operated by a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin Corp. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major research and development responsibilities in national defense, energy, environmental technologies and economic competitiveness.


-30-
For more information, please contact:

Will Bolton, Sandia National Laboratories (ARM-UAV Program)
(510) 294-2203
Jim Taylor, General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. (Altus designer)
(619) 455-4397

Mike Duncan, Naval Postgraduate School (joint user of Altus)
(408) 384-2776

Jenny Baer-Riedhart, NASA/Dryden Flight Research Center (UAV flight host)
(805) 258-3689

Media Contact:

Nancy Garcia
Sandia/California Public Affairs
(510) 294-2932
[email protected]
August 26, 1997

www.nap.edu...
A
Committee Biographies
Frank A. Horrigan (Chair) retired in September 1999 from the Technical Development Staff for Sensors and Electronic Systems at Raytheon Systems Company. He has broad general knowledge of all technologies relevant to military systems. Dr. Horrigan, a theoretical physicist, has more than 35 years' experience in advanced electronics, electro-optics, radar and sensor technologies, and advanced information systems. In addition, he has extensive experience in planning and managing IR&D investments and in projecting future technology growth directions. Dr. Horrigan once served as a NATO fellow at the Saclay Nuclear Research Center in France. Today he serves on numerous scientific boards and advisory committees, including the NRC's Army Research Laboratory Technical Assessment Board and its Naval Studies Board.

Philip S. Anselmo is currently an executive with the Electric Sensors and Systems Sector of Northrop Grumman Corporation in Baltimore, Maryland, following a career with the U.S. Navy during which he achieved the rank of Rear Admiral. His present activities include development of intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) programs for all the Services, and he works closely with the National community to extend its robust capability to real-time targeting problems. Admiral Anselmo, who is a naval aviator, possesses a diverse naval operational background, particularly in aviation and air warfare. His career includes commanding the USS Kansas City and USS Constellation. (Most of his early operational duties, however, included tours in fighter squadrons and carrier air wing groups.) Admiral Anselmo retired in 1995 as the Chief of Naval Operations' Deputy Director for Space and Electronic Warfare.

Willard R. Bolton is deputy technical director for the Atmospheric Radiation Measurement-Unmanned Aerospace Vehicles (ARM-UAV) program, a DOE collaboration involving industrial, academic, and national laboratory participation, and manager of the Exploratory Systems Technology Department at Sandia National Laboratories, Livermore, California. The ARM-UAV program was established to investigate the interaction of clouds and solar energy in the atmosphere and to demonstrate the utility of UAVs for atmospheric research by, for example, making radiative flux measurements over cirrus clouds and by providing data for comparison with satellite-derived radiative fluxes. He has an extensive background in aerodynamics, particularly in regard to UAV stability and control. Prior to joining Sandia, he was an engineer at the Boeing Military Airplane Division. His professional experience, which is in both technical management and program management, has included responsibility

www.erast.com...

Science Mission Basics
Learning the role of clouds in global warming is a critical factor in understanding the earth's climate changes. The Altus II, a high altitude unmanned aircraft built for the ERAST program, participated in a series of experiments during May, 1999 over the island of Kauai in Hawaii to help scientists gather important weather data that can be used to improve climatic computer models.


The tests were conducted as part of the ARM - UAV Atmospheric Radiation Measurement - Unmanned Aerospace Vehicle Program, which is a multi-agency, multi-laboratory program that has been funded by the U.S. Department of Defense's Strategic Environmental Research and Development Program and the Department of Energy. The purpose of this program is to study evolving cloud fields and their effect on the solar and thermal radiation balance in the atmosphere. According to Nancy Garcia of the Sandia National Laboratories public affairs office in Livermore, California, "There's a problem with some of the computer models that have been used to try to understand climate change, and they don't adequately take into account the role of clouds. Water vapor is the major greenhouse gas. So it's important to take these measurements and see what's more dominant: the cooling effect of the clouds, or the fact that they may be trapping in some heat."

This mission couples the use of a UAV originally developed for defense surveillance with the use of piloted aircraft for making important atmospheric measurements. Using UAVs to make these measurements offers the significant advantage of high-altitude and long-endurance operations, two features that are very important when measuring the effects of cloud fields. Additionally, this mission seeks to exploit the high altitude flight capability of UAVs to provide measurements to calibrate satellite radiance products, and validate their associated methods for measuring radiation flux.


UAVs Make Cloud Sandwiches

The testing involves two aircraft, flying in a "sandwich" formation, with a manned aircraft below and a UAV above the clouds. Making radiation measurements with the UAV will allow scientist to know how much energy from the sun is reaching the top of the cloud, how much is being reflected upward. Measurements from the bottom aircraft will tell researchers the amount of energy passing through the cloud, and the amount of energy reflected from the earth's surface back to the bottom of the cloud. Together these measurements allow scientists to get a sense of how much light is absorbed in the cloud, which is very important in helping understand the role the clouds play in both warming and cooling.

The testing at the Pacific Missile Range Facility (PMRF) in Hawaii has two major purposes: testing the technology for the first time over the ocean with the new Altus II UAV, and testing involving tropical cirrus clouds. Although no quick answers are expected to the problem of global warming, the project is important as a means of both "developing tools and acquiring data which will become part of the storehouse of knowledge that will help understand the global climate change phenomenon in the longer term," according to Sandia's project director Will Bolton.

The Altus II was built by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems of San Diego, California, and has been actively employed in the NASA ERAST (Environmental Research Aircraft and Sensor Technology) Program. It has been flight tested at the NASA Dryden Research Center and at El Mirage (both in California) to ensure it would reach altitudes necessary to do cloud testing. To view a log of Altus activities at PMRF, please click to Altus Observations.



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There is so much facts out there, aside from my own two damn eyes, that show California is being sprayed on purpose.
It is being done over the labs so I dont think its a bio weapon, however, people are more sick lately and ed teller who came up with the idea, doesn't think of human safety in his ideas.
Look up ed teller, who created the hydrogen bomb, and see what his idea for global warming was to the Livermore lab.

Please quit spreading crap, all of you who think chemtrails are a hoax, you dont know what you are talking about or you have some other agenda. Plain and simple.

Elgringoloco, that Sandia research program sounds pretty cool. How do you make the leap from a atmospheric research program to the conclusion that chemtrails are real?


The very fact that they are conducting research to understand the role that clouds play in climate sort of contradicts your belief that chemtrails are real. After all, why would anyone bother wasting time money and effort on a "remediation program" if they don't even understand what the results of that program would be.

Elgringoloco says:

"Here is the facts from a choking Bay area California area...."

An aircraft designed to investigate cloud formations flies to 40,000 feet altitude in an eight-year-old news report. The purpose of the experiment is to see how much ultraviolet radiation from the Sun is reflected by the clouds and how much gets through.

This is your proof that the "chem-trail" plot is real?

ROFLMAO!!!!

Sus comentarios no tienen ningún sentido, pero su nombre es muy descriptivo LOL!!

billybob says:

"i want to believe".

I know you do; and if you want to believe badly enough, you won't let any of those annoying things like facts or common sense get in the way.

"you and roarky boy ALWAYS show up on 911 and chemtrail threads."

Just the facts, ma'am; just the facts. We're just denying ignorance. That's our job here on ATS, you know.

"...speaking of time, i'd love to add how much time you've collectively spent 'shredding'(too funny, reminds me of kenny lay or the contra affair) conspiracy 'theories' on these two topics."

Not long enough, as long as there're still people who believe that sad old hoax.

But here's a suggestion, billybob. Rather than getting angry, why not read the very first post of this thread and actually respond to the six reasons. In other words, instead of attacking me, why not attack my six theses?

"... probably bought yourselves each a car...."

Actually, my wife bought me a Scion tC for Christmas.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Just why is Emily Cragg a 'banned member'? I'd love to know

Originally posted by Off_The_Street

But here's a suggestion, billybob. Rather than getting angry, why not read the very first post of this thread and actually respond to the six reasons. In other words, instead of attacking me, why not attack my six theses?

i'm not angry. i shouldn't have put you into bed with howard so quickly. sorry.
howard knows me a bit, and you don't. howard and i have spent a great deal of time discussing chemtrails and towers. i have been on the side of conspiracy fact, and he on the side of 'move along, nothing to see here'.
i just could so easily see you two leaning on a water cooler laughing at your latest victory in the infosphere. it's a giggle. if you want to argue with me, realise that howard already said it, and i already refuted it, or conversley, i said it, and howard refuted it. right, howard?
my basic final argument is that a. i notice a change in the patterns of contrails. b. other people notice. c. without sampling every single contrail in the sky, you can not determine their chemical content. d. there are patents and scientific studies which discuss aerial spraying. they were not free to produce. e. there are patents for spraying equipment. f, g, h, i, j, k......blah, blah..

i'm not producing any links or 'proof'. been there, done that. i'm getting to old for this. no one pays ME, HAHA! it's mostly available on the 'painting the sky' thread. if you wish to rehash any arguments on that thread, perhaps you could get a rise out of me. whether or not that is desirable is a whole 'nother story, eh?

Billybob, what have you refuted?




[edit on 12-2-2005 by HowardRoark]

"i have been on the side of conspiracy fact..."

Which one? Conspiracy or fact?

"my basic final argument is that a. i notice a change in the patterns of contrails."

You mean you're seeing more contrails now then you did ten years ago?

Do you think that just might have to do with the fact that

(1) almost all the commuter propjets have been retired, replaced with jets that not only fly higher where the conditions lead to persistent contrails (see ("persistence envelope") but have engines that, by their very nature, produce a lot more water vapor to flash into ice crystals;

(2) there are about 40 percent more large passenger and cargo jets than there were in 1990, and

(3) modern jet engines burn cleaner, with less hydrocarbon by-products but with a higher temperature which sucks in and heats up even more ambient air to condense into ice crystals a few seconds later?

"b. other people notice."

Well, of course; they're noticing the same thing that you do. And many of them, not having any background in aviation, meteorology, atmospheric physics, or heat transfer, arrive at the same incorrect conclusions you do. But those with a background in such things, i.e., a high-school physics course, realize exactly what is happening.

"c. without sampling every single contrail in the sky, you can not determine their chemical content."

But the "chem-trail" believers have not sampled a single persistent contrail, and the FAA and all the studies you see, actually measures engine output, which is why there is an outcry against some of the combustion by-products, because we know, from measuring contrails, that there are sometimes high levels of unburned kerosene in them.

But no studies have shown anything other than combustion by-products in contrails, and, after over five years of talking about it, no "chem-trail" believer has produced any evidence to the contrary.

Why is that?

"d. there are patents and scientific studies which discuss aerial spraying."

There are also patents for spectacles with little wipers on them so you don't have to rub them in the rain. There are patents for a "self-tipping" hat, so you don't have to take your hand out of your pocket when you pass a lady on the street.

Are you saying that, because a patent for something like that exists, that is some kind of "proof" of a Huge Sinister Plot?

"e. there are patents for spraying equipment."

There are also patents for using hydrogen bombs to dig harbors and canals. Are you saying that, because there is a patent for something like that, that is some kind of "proof" of a Huge Sinister Plot?

"f, g, h, i, j, k......blah, blah.. "

Exactly.

blah, blah, blah.

You have failed to come up with any evidence at all. You have failed to even try to refute any of the comments that I made in my first post. Your arguments are based on simply not understanding how airplanes, jet engines, and the atmosphere works. You keep trying to perpetuate the hoax, and you have failed at that too.

And you will continue to fail, because whenever truth meets hoax or understanding meets ignorance, the former, sooner or later, wins.

And the latter, sooner or later, always fails.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by Off_The_Street]