I am a soldier, I have bills to pay and therefore I fight any enemy of my government.

Why would someone want to become an US-soldier. IMHO an US soldier is fighting for corperate intrests and not for his family, country, way of life...or whatever.



I am a soldier, I have bills to pay and therefore I fight any enemy of my government.

If someone chose to be a soldier there is not much room personal moral dilemmas or for second thoughts when it comes to following orders.

With becoming a soldier one is prepared to trust the government with your life....

Many people and veterans are dissapointed in their government because it refuses to take responsibillity for the veterans who became seriously and mysteriously ill after serving their government in the middle east. Read some of this.

Although after many years the US government starts to acknowledge their fysiological complaints and give disability compensation for those suffering from the Gulf War Syndrome it says something about how much the government cares. Read about it here.

Is money to pay bills really reason enough to become a soldier in the US army? If so, what bills are we talking about?




I am a patriot and therefore I fight any enemy of my government.

Does this reason still fly...?

reply to post by zatara


A soldier should fight for the COUNTRY not the GOVERNMENT. Also, they should fight any enemies of the country, both foreign and DOMESTIC! This means the government can in fact, in itself, be an enemy to the country as a whole, and to the people, in which case it is the duty of the soldiers to fight this domestic enemy as well.

So what do you,as a soldier ,think of Uncle O's plan to make you buy your own health
Insurance and pay costs when you get wounded while fighting?

You take an oath to fight whoever. Lately it seems the enemy of the government is the enemy of the oil companie's bottom line and not really the enemy of the people. When most of the people are crying out not to go to war and we still go to war it looks like democracy is dead. I would be proud to fight for democracy but I would never fight for an oil company.I'll pay the bills some other way. My petrochemical bill is really high.

our only chance of ever reclaiming our country is the military.

if they can somehow pull their heads out of their asses and realize they are the most important piece of the puzzle that is bringing down this country we might prosper once again.

if the military was once again on the side of the people things could change real fast

In reality: All wars, ever, were fought on behalf of the GOVERNMENT, not the COUNTRY, against another GOVERNMENT, not another COUNTRY. In case you haven't figured this out yet, all wars, ever, whether now or two thousand years ago, have been a show, where the elite upper echelons on both sides were on the same side and thereby benefited from said war, while the sheep on the ground danced to their master's delight. All men and women whoever partook in these wars were pawns, sheep, and shall forever be sheep.


Act of Valour....pffftt.... Act of Acquiescence

I always thought it was a duty of the soldier to follow only Legal and Moral orders....

Say if ordered to shoot a school full of children, I would hope a soldier would stand on his morals in that case.

Originally posted by Leeu2012
In reality: All wars, ever, were fought on behalf of the GOVERNMENT, not the COUNTRY, against another GOVERNMENT, not another COUNTRY. In case you haven't figured this out yet, all wars, ever, whether now or two thousand years ago, have been a show, where the elite upper echelons on both sides were on the same side and thereby benefited from said war, while the sheep on the ground danced to their master's delight. All men and women whoever partook in these wars were pawns, sheep, and shall forever be sheep.


Act of Valour....pffftt.... Act of Acquiescence

Eh, I wouldn't say every way EVER. Although, most of the wars in the past 50 years were fought for greed; that I agree on you with.

I don't know this for certain; but, i'm sure that the legions of Rome, ancient samurai, soldiers of Macedonia, and old Britons, mostly fought for their valor of their country, rather than any government agenda.

I have heard some of my townsmen say, "I should like to have them order me out to march to war; — see if I would go"; and yet these very men have each, directly by their allegiance, and so indirectly, at least, by their money, furnished a substitute. The soldier is applauded who refuses to serve in an unjust war by those who do not refuse to sustain the unjust government which makes the war. If a thousand men were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.

Thoreau, as usual, was completely correct in his thinking and knack for expressing his thoughts. This sums up my feelings exactly. This is OUR responsibility as much as anyone else.

reply to post by zatara


And if your gov't tells you to invade another country and slaughter innocent civilians, you do without a question?
You should be ashamed of yourself. I really hope there's a hell for people like you.
But for god's sake, open your eyes, and see for yourself that we are enslaved by the very gov't you so love. Protect the country, protect the people, protect the land, but not a corrupt bunch of hypocrites.
Or else, why are you here? to deny ignorance? perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are defending it instead.
I will not try to convert or persuade you. But I ask you to see it for yourself, that the greatest enemy of your country lies within the highest seats.
I just pray that in time, the military will also realize the evil within the system, and will stand beside the people.

no war has ever been fought because of the Government or on behalf of a Government.

they are fought to confirm your right to exist on this planet and live according to your own values and beliefs.

Governments and our laws are the playing fields and rules of war and better compared to the stadium/arena, umpire/referee in a sporting event rather than the players, the teams or the fans.

the only thing clear to me is that people have been thoroughly deceived.

people who sign up for the military are better compared to a guy who filled out an application to referee a baseball game. if you are dumb enough to allow yourself to get throttled...maybe you should pay your own medical.

Soldiers are the actual players and have no choice but to fight or be destroyed.

So killing is ok as long as you are getting your bills paid right?

Cool.

I'll remember to send out a memo to all of the mafias and cartels that they are doing a legitimate and worthy job and that they are legal now.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
no war has ever been fought because of the Government or on behalf of a Government.

they are fought to confirm your right to exist on this planet and live according to your own values and beliefs.

That sounds pretty sadistic.

In fact I have to say the opposite is true instead.

Those who kill people probably don't deserve to live (since they kill people), whereas people who do not participate in any form of murder actually deserve to live more so.

In fact, every single person born on Earth has a RIGHT TO EXIST on this planet 100%. They do not earn it, they are born with it inherently and naturally.

When we 'fight a war' , we are essentially telling the other army that they do not have a right to exist, and we use our weapons to fulfill that by decimating and destroying their existence.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by michaelbrux
no war has ever been fought because of the Government or on behalf of a Government.

they are fought to confirm your right to exist on this planet and live according to your own values and beliefs.

That sounds pretty sadistic.

In fact I have to say the opposite is true instead.

Those who kill people probably don't deserve to live (since they kill people), whereas people who do not participate in any form of murder actually deserve to live more so.

In fact, every single person born on Earth has a RIGHT TO EXIST on this planet 100%. They do not earn it, they are born with it inherently and naturally.

When we 'fight a war' , we are essentially telling the other army that they do not have a right to exist, and we use our weapons to fulfill that by decimating and destroying their existence.

Murder is against the law last I heard...however, if you live in Florida...its a grey area.

its good that you feel that everyone has the right to exist...your belief is not shared by more than a few...so people like myself find themselves fighting in wars. i'm sorry that you think war is about killing...its not, its about confirming ones right to exist and takes on many forms, such as financial, economic, cultural, social, legal, etc...achieving victory in war by killing is often simply murder, rarely self defense and those that employ this technique have done an excellent job lying to you.

and you are wrong...when a military goes into the field, the war is already being fought by the REAL soldiers...the military are supposed to be there only to enforce the law and rules of war, not to directly participate in it. if the military or police finds itself as a participant in the war it is because it has violated its inherent neutrality in the conflict and taken one side over the other.

but you are all free to clumsily stumble through life and maybe one day you'll figure this out.

if you think that the Government fights wars or that military fights wars or that this is what they exist to do...i'll say it again...you've been lied to.

I don't think the OP is a soldier, I think that was just his way of posing the question.

I don't think it's a valid argument either. When it comes to this economy and finding work I always revert back to the history books and what happened in the great depression. If there's no work where you live, find a way to get to where the work is. Maybe you get unemployment now so you don't need to. There will come a time when that will run out but the bills keep coming. If there is no work where you are you're going to HAVE to resort to moving where there are jobs.

To me, the excuse of fighting to pay your bills is pretty lame. You're going to have to be doing that somewhere else other than where you live right? Why resort to something like the military when you can just as easlily pack your bags and move to another town in the U.S.? Either way, you're going to be uprooting your family for the sake of a job.

If you ask me, soldiers do what they do because they either buy into the crap of fighting for our freedoms, are too lazy to find a REAL job, or they just flat out enjoy the idea of killing for a living.



In the end.......it just isn't worth it.

Sorry, but this thread has me a mood now.

reply to post by michaelbrux


I'm trying my best to understand what you are saying here.

How have you disconnected the soldier from the military? A soldier serves at the behest of the military and the military at the behest of the government. Where are you finding a disconnect between these entities?

Originally posted by michaelbrux
i'm sorry that you think war is about killing...its not, its about confirming ones right to exist and takes on many forms, such as financial, economic, cultural, social, legal, etc...

If war isn't about killing, what is it about? Cupcakes and cookies?

How do you confirm your "right to exist" by killing other human beings and denying them their right to exist?

Let's view this suggestion from a historical perspective.

Does this mean that many Africans through the last 1000 years have had no right to exist but Europeans do have a right to exist and confirmed it by invading and killing the locals in Africa? I guess under this belief system, it was all totally justified since war is about 'confirming one's right to exist'?

Originally posted by METACOMET
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

I'm trying my best to understand what you are saying here.

That's probably because he's not making any sense.

How about everyone just put your weapons down, use the energy you have on you family and love, and stop being a murderer!

No matter what a "soldier"-"since we are all soldiers by law" says, when someone picks up a weapon that kills, he/she is a murderer. No bills, or responsability should be an excuse to be the lowest life form on the planet, these "soldiers" dont fight for the country or anyone else, nor freedom or some bs excuse, they are killing people because they are not human, they are the creation of evil to beget evil. PERIOD!

Originally posted by METACOMET
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

I'm trying my best to understand what you are saying here.

How have you disconnected the soldier from the military? A soldier serves at the behest of the military and the military at the behest of the government. Where are you finding a disconnect between these entities?

i haven't disconnected anything. you been taught to make an incorrect connection and i'm challenging it.

the soldier exists without the government or military and serves his people in this capacity.

i don't want to be misunderstood....i'm only reminding you of this so that you can understand what is war and what is the government.

if a situation emerges where the government has an enemy its seems that the government (a machine) has learned to be used in a manner for which it was never designed. a government can no more have an enemy than a screwdriver and if it does its probably because the screwdriver is being used in a manner inconsistent with its designers intentions.

another reason a government might have an enemy is because the enemy of the people that built it can't get to the people without first getting rid of their government.

i suppose if a military person defends his government, then he is indirectly defending the people that built it.

my direct experience is that neither the government, nor military are fighting a war...but sitting around watching a war be fought.