Thailand government bans MMA

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Granted, they will have to know how to properly administer the moves, but there is not much defense to r n choke, and defending arm/knee bars takes the knowledge and proper skill to defend.
I was reflecting on my own street fights back in the day, and out of 9 total, 6 of them went to the ground. There are certainly times when a one punch KO plays out too, but imo the fight goes to the ground, by circumstance.

I agree, almost all the street fights and bar fights end up on the ground, and I also agree that the majority of the time the people trying to do special holds and submissions don't know how to properly administer them, and that is possibly why they never work. I have broken many r n chokes and sleepers, and I've never had anyone get me in an armbar, and I don't think I ever will let someone get me in an armbar, LOL!

Perhaps there is a drastic difference in someone just randomly trying these moves in a fight compared to someone actually practiced and perfected at administering them. Although, one of the ones that ended very badly for the guy was straight out of Marine bootcamp, so you would think he would know what he was doing, but he didn't do to well.

I said earlier, the skills are extremely useful, and every style of martial arts should incorporate some ground skills, and if they don't, then they aren't very good styles.

I still can't say I've ever seen a UFC fight that I enjoyed very much though. I keep watching, and I keep getting frustrated, and eventually I will try it for myself and either I will be made a believer in the sport at my own peril, or I will prove that regular guys on the street still have a chance sometimes. Big Country comes to mind. He should not have beat the guys he beat, but he did, and that just proves those guys didn't know how to fight. They had muscles, and skill, but they didn't have the tenacity to actually fight.

I knew the minute i saw the thread title i would come in here and see some guy(s) who either think they are a ninja and dont fight because they know the deadly kung fu poison hand of death and dont want to harm anyone, some hippie overreacting to all the barbaric violence, or some middle aged couch potato talking about how he could beat one of these ultimate fighter doods and then proceed to drone on about his street fights and how that stuff dont work in the hood. What gang were some of you cold mofos rolling with?the riffs? the baseball furies? help me out here

Martial arts discussions on no MA forums are the best.

reply to post by paganini

Why dont you then? Theres plenty of legit gyms in most states so you can go down there with your bad self and show them a thing or two

I've been to plenty of gyms when I was younger, I've participated in tournaments, and I've also just messed around with guys for fun, or to help them practice. There are a couple of BJJ gyms here in town, and they haven't been too impressive in my experience with them, but this thread has convinced me to go down and see if I can get anyone to roll or spar with me. I don't know why everyone assumes I haven't already done this? I prefer boxing gyms and more traditional martial arts, but that doesn't mean I have never faced off against someone trained in jiu jitsu or muay thai.

Of course I've never been in a sanctioned UFC or MMA fight, and I never have the desire to until the subject comes up with me criticizing the sport and everyone claiming I just don't understand it. The fact is, I do understand it, they call it UFC, and it just isn't U, and the F is questionable, LOL!

reply to post by getreadyalready

Perhaps there is a drastic difference in someone just randomly trying these moves in a fight compared to someone actually practiced and perfected at administering them.

paramount

There are some lame fights in the sport for sure, but there are plenty of diamonds in the rough too.
Huas vs Henderson
www.fightvideomma.com...
Silva vs Okami
www.fightvideomma.com...
Have you seen all of Anderson Silva's fights?(not the couple of sleeper fights of course) How bout Jon Jones? These guys skills and mental game are somewhat poetic to me. The dedication and perseverance is admirable, and their records reflect their abilities. I guess for me, hand to hand combat represents an ultimate challenge in human ability, and I dig the technicalities.

For any fans I have an ongoing mma thread you are welcome to participate in. A few of us chime in about the latest fights and such.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Have you seen all of Anderson Silva's fights?(not the couple of sleeper fights of course) How bout Jon Jones? These guys skills and mental game are somewhat poetic to me. The dedication and perseverance is admirable, and their records reflect their abilities.

I have to admit that I have seen a limited number of PPV fights when my buddies made me watch, and I have seen some sorry fights on cable television, and I've seen the reality fighter shows, so my exposure to the sport is probably jaded by the low quality fights I have seen.

I will now go back and watch the fights mentioned in this thread, and research the guys that are held in high regard, and my 5 year old just informed me that we are getting up at 5 a.m. tomorrow to start training! Apparently he is my trainer now, so that should help a bunch.

I suppose I should have done more research on the sport before criticizing it, but every time I am forced to watch it, it is a sorry display and it just frustrating to watch, so I've never had the desire to dig any deeper. I have never understood the attraction. I used to like the Kimbo Slice Youtube montages!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't know why everyone assumes I haven't already done this?

Because you come off like you're all talk. right on down to every cliche line you are delivering

Originally posted by getreadyalready I prefer boxing gyms and more traditional martial arts, but that doesn't mean I have never faced off against someone trained in jiu jitsu or muay thai. !

Thats like saying ah i played basketball with a guy once on the high school team i dont see why i cant hang with Carmelo Anthony or Jordan in his prime Understand?

Originally posted by getreadyalreadyOf course I've never been in a sanctioned UFC or MMA fight, and I never have the desire to until the subject comes up with me criticizing the sport and everyone claiming I just don't understand it. The fact is, I do understand it, they call it UFC, and it just isn't U, and the F is questionable, LOL!

How is it questionable?

Lets see two guys get in a competition with minimal rules. minimal protective gear and use the whole repertoire of standing and grappling arts and routinely get injured including being knocked out and having their limbs dislocated.

But yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah thats not the real stuff

reply to post by ImaMuslim


Its not violence and they're not trying to solve anything other than the puzzle that is the other persons mind. Its a sport. One that I happen to love and participate in.(not at the moment though due to a broken vertebrae in my back) Just like boring old boxing, its just a sport.
I believe that there was some influence from the Muay Thai as it not portrayed in the traditional sense in MMA. But MMA is about what REALLY works in a combat situation, not about tradition....

reply to post by getreadyalready


This may be the first time I have ever disagreed with you. It is a very interesting and technical sport. If you were informed on what was going on in the grappling, you would be addicted. Favorite fight of all time? Gracie vs. Leopoldo. Look it up. Size vs. Technique.....

reply to post by paganini

Thats like saying ah i played basketball with a guy once on the high school team i dont see why i cant hang with Carmelo Anthony or Jordan in his prime Understand?

Actually this statement combined with the statement that I come across as all talk don't mesh? You are assuming I have never faced anyone that was recognizable or in their prime, but that isn't true. If I was all talk, I would have been name-dropping all along, but I'm not doing that, so you are assuming I've never fought anyone you might know. So, if I do name-drop, then I am all talk, and if I don't name-drop then I don't know what I'm talking about anyway? It's kind of a lose-lose to be the guy I'm being in this thread. Either I'm just some random internet tough guy that is all talk, or I am just some internet tough guy that doesn't know what he is talking about?

I'm fine with taking the criticism, it is an anonymous forum and nobody needs to believe anything anyone else is saying. I even mentioned earlier how I have done the same thing, and I was proven wrong, and I was humbled by the experience. Some people really are who they say the are.

So, since I can't prove anything here, I promise to do some exploring in local gyms as many have suggested, and I promise to take some video, and I promise to put up a thread with the results whatever they may be. If I get my ass kicked by some younger, better-trained fighters then so be it.

The purpose of me originally calling out the whole sport was two-fold.
First fold, I'm really not impressed with the fighters, LOL!
Second fold, if I can get any attention from my antics, and if someone with any kind of resume would like to fight me for charity and prove me wrong, then maybe we could raise some money for my buddy's Cancer Treatment.. If I get my ass kicked fine, I can share some pain with my buddy and have something to laugh about, but if I actually win, then maybe I can get some more fights and some attention to his fundraising cause, and we can help him get more experimental treatments.

I mentioned all of that in previous posts, but it has been diluted over the course of the thread.

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

This may be the first time I have ever disagreed with you. It is a very interesting and technical sport. If you were informed on what was going on in the grappling, you would be addicted. Favorite fight of all time? Gracie vs. Leopoldo. Look it up. Size vs. Technique.....

Ahhh, don't sweat it, so far, even in regular real life I haven't found hardly anyone to agree with me on this particular subject.

I suppose I'll just have to put my own ass on the line and prove my point, or admit I was wrong. Won't be the first time.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Im down for volunteering to get my ass whooped(maybe) for charity. Give me some time to heal(broken vertebra) and if you set it up, I'll be there. And its not that anonymous. My screen name is my real name.....

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Im down for volunteering to get my ass whooped(maybe) for charity. Give me some time to heal(broken vertebra) and if you set it up, I'll be there. And its not that anonymous. My screen name is my real name.....

I'm quite a bit bigger than you, and I could only hope to get down maybe to 185-190. I'd be a lot more comfortable at 210-215, LOL!

BUT, I'm still definitely down for it if you are! I will get some my buddy's other better equipped friends to try and set something up! Wouldn't hurt you to get some extra attention either. I'll PM you. I've had a couple of other PM's, but nobody with actual experience. We might even be able to set up several! My buddy has been battling this for almost 5 years, so I can surely endure a couple of beatings on his behalf.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Actually this statement combined with the statement that I come across as all talk don't mesh? You are assuming I have never faced anyone that was recognizable or in their prime,

If you had actually done this you would have been humbled. Has the Pros vs joes show taught anyone anything? lol

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Second fold, if I can get any attention from my antics, and if someone with any kind of resume would like to fight me for charity and prove me wrong, then maybe we could raise some money for my buddy's Cancer Treatment.. If I get my ass kicked fine, I can share some pain with my buddy and have something to laugh about, but if I actually win, then maybe I can get some more fights and some attention to his fundraising cause, and we can help him get more experimental treatments.

Well lets see this happen.

You could make a youtube video showing your proposal. Or you could do that and go strait to some big forums

www.sherdog.net...

www.bullshido.net...

like these and state what you want to do. It could easily be arranged this way.Theres fighters and coaches who post there who can set something up in your area Let us know what your user name is there ,where the thread is,and link us to the fight when it happens.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I dont care about the size difference in anyone Im competing against. I was hoping we could get a few ATS members to join and see what we can set up against some real fighters for this cause.We get the easy part of this as your buddy has the hardest fight of all. I think we can make this work being that it is for charity. I know some people in the MMA/UFC world so I think I can help. But I want to participate, so we have to delay it until after my back heals.

reply to post by paganini

It could easily be arranged this way.Theres fighters and coaches who post there who can set something up in your area Let us know what your user name is there where the thread is and link us to the fight when it happens.

Will do.

Give me the weekend to talk to my buddy, talk to some friends, and maybe test my metal a little, and then I'll post up a new thread and link to it here, and send some PM's to the people that are interested.

I'm not afraid to lose, or to be proven wrong, it happens once in awhile, and I've certainly had my share of humbling experiences, but I've also had a lot of successes, and I think I can back up the majority of what I've said, and I think it could be a legitimate event for a great cause.

From Glasgow in UK. had nothing to do as a kid so done Muay Thai shukokai and a bit of greco. They are protecting there own sport and rightly.

UFC dissers get a life. Most provable evolving full contact sport we have and you have a downer on it. It is a proven fact that it is less dangerous than amateur rugby. It encourages discipline and has taken the best out of multiple discipline sports and regulated it in a really good way.

Just a message to anyone who thinks they are tough and has skills that they have proven on the street. You wouldn't last in any ring. These people are not drunk. They are a not a lot weaker due to environmental conditions.

It looks easy but these guys are professional.

Many have no doubt said it before its all business and the Muay Thai industry is big bucks in Thailand, mma I guess would be a competitor so there bound to try to get it outlawed. The boxing big wigs tried the same thing here in the states years ago, they even had Senator John McCain try to pass a whole bunch of laws against it back then.

And even back then it was all about business, McCain was making truckloads of money off boxing because I think his family is one of the ones behind a big name beer, which was sponsoring boxing at the time. And the UFC back then were not one of the fortune 500 players and all there sponsors were small time, and as it was a up and coming sport. It threatened the popularity of boxing, and therefore of the money they were all making off boxing.

And so they ran a what u ma call it...A smear campaign. But now there all buddy buddy as they are all in on a piece of the pie mma is making with sales and its popularity. All about the $$$.

The same thing is likely going on in Thailand, just business.

In fact Muai Thai is more dangerous then mma, thats why you never see older fighters in Muai Thai. Most of them start really young like 5 years old, and by the time they reach 20 something there bodies are all banged up and used up, so they retire. In mma you see fighters of all kinds of ages.

The thing is most people have little insight into real fighting, they seen to many movies or are just plain ignorant.
In a real fight most fights no matter how good if the other guy is even remotely practiced in any grappling art it will go to the ground. I seen top level Muay Thai fighters get beat by dudes who can barely throw a punch because of that fact. Its all just a whole different thing, and you can not really compare them, apples and oranges.

I watch all kinds of combat sports, boxing, mma, kickboxing, muay thai, karate, and whatever else and it all just comes down to what you like, if you like boxing good for you, watch that and shut the hell up about it. Same can be said of any other martial art out there. This whole thing like I said is about business and not about the martial arts at all.

MMA is so far the closest thing to an actual real life fight out there within its rules. And a real life fight is not pretty or fancy, its brutal and unpredictable, and the less rules you have the more unpredictable the fights become. That's why most other martial arts through out time rules were added, to make the fights more aesthetics and more predictable as it eliminates a whole bunch of variables in how you can lose, and it is especially predictable for the bookies to make $$ off it.

Like I said people just watch to much movies, real life actual thing is exactly not like it is depicted in movies and shows. Even the martial art of sword fighting, in movies you see guys go back and forth with swords like a dance, in real life actual sword fighting as they did in samurai japan in the past in duels in ancient Europe. You would be lucky if the actual sword fight would last past 5 seconds and there was no fancy back and forth play at least not for long, really the whole ordeal is decided the first few seconds and long before the swords are drawn.

There is a comparison in mma with other combat sports as well, take away all the rules and heavy gloves and rounds. And you would be lucky if the actual fight would last past 5 minutes, and the first guy to make a mistake is usually the one who losses.

But anyways people just watch whatever you want, this whole thing is a mute point.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I agree, with most of what you said. There seems to be some contradiction in the pro-mma mentality. Like MMA fighters are said to be the toughest guys in combat sports yet they also want to claim that it has the least injuries. Does not make sense to me, if you had a guy like Vitali Klitschko fighting with 4oz gloves there are going to be some major injuries.

Sorry bro but it's been said before. Whole different game, apples and oranges. Now in boxing klitschko might be good in mma with 4 oz gloves on, first of all most likely he will get taken down and submitted in about 3 minutes if at that. A good grapler would probably just take him down and bang on him like a drum at will.

But even if it was a stand up fight, it's still a whole different thing, first his legs aren't conditioned I bet you with a few good leg kicks he would be limping around within a round. Plus I do not see many smart fighters fighting him at his strong point boxing, and and his style of fighting/punching is defensive he is mostly a counter puncher. Against any stand up fighter in mma right now that is decent or good he would probably lose.

Apples and oranges dude. Now if they were boxing then my money would be on klitschko.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I agree with everything you've said, but then why call it "Ultimate Fighting" or market the guys as the toughest in any sport?

Because its marketing dude. Mixed Martial artists dont go around calling themselfs ultimate fighters. The UFC is a brand a company that hosts Mixed Martial Arts, and right now it is were the show is on and its the biggest show in town.

This whole tuf thing got blown out of proportions, to any martial artist such a thing is pretty much just packaging in reality there is just the fight at hand and that is all. Everything else is just hot air blowing in the wind.

If they are just professional athletes worrying about their career and their next fight, then they aren't really tough guys are they?

Because its a sport and a show, they are there for the competition and also its there life, there passion, and there livelihood, and its also a job. So yes they are professional athletes, in this day and age you cant just go around beating up people to show how tuf you are. Because frankly no one cares.

There are people in mma who have been in hundreds of fights both in the streets and in the rings or the cage, but does not mean as much as people think because it all just depends on the situation and who you are fighting.

There is a huge difference between an athlete and a fighter. Mike Tyson was BOTH, and Mike Tyson was DANGEROUS!

Actually Mike Tyson is a big fan of mma. I think the dude regularly hangs out in the back rooms with the fighters now and again at mma shows.

Mike Tyson could of been a good mma fighter if it was around back then. Would he have been as successful as he was in boxing. I don't think so, but he would of been a contender.
Tyson Link

I guess my real complaint is truth in advertising. Their sport is fine for what it is. It just isn't ultimate fighting.

Ultimate fighting does not exist per say, its a label meaning a brand Basically UFC, which is a company. The sport is called Mixed Martial Arts. Ultimate probably is just something they used because it would catch the attention of the ignorant and make it sound more cool.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by HangTheTraitors

 

This is a good start!

I'll be the "big mouth" if it helps get people to contribute. Although, if we do get a fight organized, I'll surely have to own up to my own training, which isn't that significant, but similar enough to his 7 years but that was almost 2 decades ago. I might need a little refresher training. I'm a lot grouchier now than I used to be though, so that should help, LOL!

Oh lol dude, you all so crazy. Fighting can be dangerous you know, and I do not think grouchiness will be of much help. Really just have an arm wrestling match, or a thumb war, and get it out of your system.