Insane Michigan government announces plan to destroy ranch livestock based on hair color and arrest

reply to post by hawkiye


I agree to not believe everything I read. However I do believe in taking both sides of an argument into account.

On one hand, I believe responsible farmers/livestock owners should be allowed to continue their own ways of doing things (free-range, organic feed, etc,), and to freely provide for their family's and community's well being, in finance and health, as long as it does not put others in harms way. An example would be to grow plant/veggies for personal use and to bring to market, without causing environmental or even aesthetic harm to their immediate neighbors.

On the other hand, government is made up of people. And as long as corporate interests are not allowed to unduly influence these people, they have an obligation to address problems affecting the community at-large, without destroying a few in the name of the many. Meaning, that if they determine through legitimate means that a specific species of swine is a danger to the public then they better at least come to some sort of compromise with those who raise these animals in order to combat the danger.

If it's just corporate greed, then by all means they should be stopped from carrying out plans that are based on misleading information. If it's truly just an attempt to protect life and property, then the people and the government should work together to address the problem.

I have yet to see any evidence that farm-raised swine of the kind mentioned in the law cannot be responsibly raised and made safe for consumption. I need proof that it is impossible for responsible farmers to safely raise these animals before I agree to lump domesticated animals into the same category as actual wild animals,

If they are found to be disease free and the farm is deemed to be secure, then what exactly is the problem?

I'm from Michigan.. Actually I live near farms. Good luck to them... They #ing with some cold hard huntin Michigan hillbillys. Yes very we'll armed like other guy said. Not gonna fly. I work with a USDA inspector I'm gonna ask him about this.

reply to post by obilesk

If they are found to be disease free and the farm is deemed to be secure, then what exactly is the problem?

The problem is family and specialty farms are threat to factory farms who are exercising thier political muscle to stamp out any possible loss of their market share.

Wild feral hogs can be shot on sight by farmers and are hunted regularly they are not that big of a problem...

reply to post by hawkiye


That's exactly what I meant by the comment you quoted

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Would love your take on how someone merely posting what the law actually says is wrong.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Try reading the whole regulation instead of just an out of context snip and the numerous posts in this thread already explaining it. As you have said to others do your own research or you just look ignorant. By the way it is not a law it is a policy there is no law involved.

edit on 28-3-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

The majority of this thread is by people that have no idea what they are talking about.

I have read the law in question, and it seems to be YOU who are cherry picking what you think is apropos to the situation. I had yet to see any evidence of anything you have brought up, and when the law goes into effect, I am more than certain that there will be zero incidents of private livestock being killed.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Would love your take on how someone merely posting what the law actually says is wrong.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Try reading the whole regulation instead of just an out of context snip and the numerous posts in this thread already explaining it. As you have said to others do your own research or you just look ignorant. By the way it is not a law it is a policy there is no law involved.

The majority of this thread is by people that have no idea what they are talking about.

I have read the law in question, and it seems to be YOU who are cherry picking what you think is apropos to the situation. I had yet to see any evidence of anything you have brought up, and when the law goes into effect, I am more than certain that there will be zero incidents of private livestock being killed.

In other words you did not read the REGULATION nor the thread because I quoted the sections of it more then once that PROHIBITS farmers from owning any so called strains based on any of them having a single BS arbitrary trait like hair color and makes them felons for so doing. So you chose to remain ignorant and display it by talking out your ass I see... Sigh!

Originally posted by DankKing420
reply to post by Bullypulpit

 

your talk alot of $#*% for being behind a computer. especially about a city that put the world on wheels.

Detroit put the world on wheels?... really?...

I would NEVER set foot on Detroit nor any other liberal nanny city or state...

People like you have fogotten what it really means to be an American, and Detroit ISN'T a city to look at for American values, nor a city that protects and looks up to the U.S. Constitution...

But then again, there are people, including in power, on both sides of the fence that just want to destroy everything that has to do with the U.S. Constitution, and the Constitution itself alongside taking away every right we naturally have, and instead plan on implementing a "nanny state"...

If you are fine and dandy with having a "nanny state" maybe you should be trading yourself and your family for the rest of mine who unfortunately are still in Cuba...

Cuba is a perfect example of what happens in "nanny states" alongside countries like China, the former U.S.S.R., Vietnam, and North Korea alongside others...

They're just claiming ANY crossbreeding of the European boar with the sus domesticus is illegal to HAVE. That's kind of a new rule.

Wild pigs have always been open season no limit. They are fun to hunt, and good to eat, so are not really a big problem. They can and do crossbreed to any extent with the domestic pig and most all wild ones are crossbreeds to a greater or lesser degree.

Wild pigs (also known as wild hogs or feral pigs) are an Old World species and are not native to the Americas. The first wild pigs in the United States originated solely from domestic stock brought to North America by early European explorers and settlers. Many years later, Eurasian wild boar were introduced into parts of the United States for hunting purposes. In areas where domestic pigs and Eurasian wild boar were found together in the wild, interbreeding occurred. Today, many hybrid populations exist throughout the wild pig’s range. How Did Wild Pigs Get Here? Pigs were first introduced in the 1500’s to what is now the southeastern U.S. by Spanish Explorer, Hernando DeSoto

What they are demanding is solely purebred pigs, even though this is not the problem in any way. Wild pigs are not purebreds either. Crossbreeding produces stronger pigs of course. They don't want that. They don't want the least trace of the wild pig in there, not a straight ear or a colored hair. A poster above said they have problems with the wild pigs getting at the sows when they are in heat. So if they do, and a litter of black piglets comes out, the farmer is a felon and all his pigs will be confiscated.

If your pigs are anything but pink, you are a felon. This is PIG RACISM. Seriously. This regulation does NOTHING to help the feral pig pest problem in any way. It just screws the small farmers, even though it is supposedly aimed at hunting preserves where they have them and they tend to escape.

Even if they can fight this in the courts and win, the best they will get is paid money for the pigs that are confiscated, but it will still be illegal to have any but pink pigs. So it won't really be a win.

Destroying livestock to deprive people of their livelihoods is generally an ACT OF WAR. In fact a war CRIME.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Would love your take on how someone merely posting what the law actually says is wrong.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Try reading the whole regulation instead of just an out of context snip and the numerous posts in this thread already explaining it. As you have said to others do your own research or you just look ignorant. By the way it is not a law it is a policy there is no law involved.

The majority of this thread is by people that have no idea what they are talking about.

I have read the law in question, and it seems to be YOU who are cherry picking what you think is apropos to the situation. I had yet to see any evidence of anything you have brought up, and when the law goes into effect, I am more than certain that there will be zero incidents of private livestock being killed.

In other words you did not read the REGULATION nor the thread because I quoted the sections of it more then once that PROHIBITS farmers from owning any so called strains based on any of them having a single BS arbitrary trait like hair color and makes them felons for so doing. So you chose to remain ignorant and display it by talking out your ass I see... Sigh!

edit on 28-3-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Not sure what you are getting at. I read this thread and your rambling rantings and can barely make out anything coherent. How about you bump your thread with the names of people carted off to jail for being arrested for what you are claiming is going to happen, okay?

Originally posted by unsteadystate
I hope hundreds of cops swarm on family farms to attempt to destroy various families' livliehood and are shot and killed for their effort. This would be a big freaking wake up call to both the federal and state governments that we are fed up with them. And yes I know you scum are whatching and listening.

edit on 3/27/2012 by unsteadystate because: (no reason given)

"Watching and listening" is a vast understatement.

reply to post by hawkiye


This is crazy! We need more Farms here in the USA!! I agree with you! I think whoever the Powers in control are going to try and control us with forced health care and food resources!

PLEASE READ IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THE MICHIGAN PIG ANNIHILATION ACT.

Hey guys I'm not sure if this will calm down all ATSers but I live in Michigan and have been familiar with this law for awhile now. As I understand it as well as fellow farmers/hunters in my neck of the woods is that any one with a hunting licence in Michigan small game and or deer has full permission to shoot a pig on site that is roaming freely. This does include domestic pigs that have escaped and eluded recapture by the owner. This just happened down the road from me. A local doctors pig got out and was tearing up the property at a house down the road so the old man shot it and thought he got a wild pig.... Nope just a loose one, he actually wrote an op-ed for the local paper declaring THEIR HERE!!!!(wild pigs) before being contacted by his neighbor about his missing pig LOL. Michigan is a state that is terrified by the thought of invasive species as we have a battle going on with asian carp right now. Our natural resources hunting,fishing,tourism are the only things keeping our state going in these tough times so any threat is dealt with firmly. And wild pigs being a hardy, intelligent, adaptable and sometimes destructive create has landed it self on the natural terrorist list. So the michigan DNR and hunters have George Bushed up and are ready to declare shock and awe. Now there are provisions in the law that protect domestic animals inside an enclosure, such as you cant shoot or hunt domesticated deer inside an enclosure you cant go around blasting anything that goes oink. Deer farmers and hunters got hit with lots of regulations and restrictions two years ago because of a cervid (deer,elk,reindeer,moose,wapiti muntjacs and sikas) virus outbreak a couple years ago that hurt our deer population. This law is just that for pig farmers and the few if any actual wild/feral hogs running around our beautiful state (seriously check it out we could use the cash). So thats how we here view it here, just another protective measure to ensure the livelihood of our natural resources.And those regulations for deer farmers and hunters worked no more infected deer as of 2010.

By the way I know this post is probaly riddled with typo's and grammar errors, im a redneck and gotta run to work... nough said.

Peace and love and Git-r-done.
-citizenjack

It's been over 10 years and many have warned that you must begin growing your own fruit, vegetables and livestock. Everything today has become genetically modified and tampered with. I haven't found a natural tasting piece of pork or beef in years. You just can't find it anymore unless you visit international third-world countries.

Originally posted by CitizenJack
PLEASE READ IF YOUR CONCERNED ABOUT THE MICHIGAN PIG ANNIHILATION ACT.

Hey guys I'm not sure if this will calm down all ATSers but I live in Michigan and have been familiar with this law for awhile now. As I understand it as well as fellow farmers/hunters in my neck of the woods is that any one with a hunting licence in Michigan small game and or deer has full permission to shoot a pig on site that is roaming freely. This does include domestic pigs that have escaped and eluded recapture by the owner. This just happened down the road from me. A local doctors pig got out and was tearing up the property at a house down the road so the old man shot it and thought he got a wild pig.... Nope just a loose one, he actually wrote an op-ed for the local paper declaring THEIR HERE!!!!(wild pigs) before being contacted by his neighbor about his missing pig LOL. Michigan is a state that is terrified by the thought of invasive species as we have a battle going on with asian carp right now. Our natural resources hunting,fishing,tourism are the only things keeping our state going in these tough times so any threat is dealt with firmly. And wild pigs being a hardy, intelligent, adaptable and sometimes destructive create has landed it self on the natural terrorist list. So the michigan DNR and hunters have George Bushed up and are ready to declare shock and awe. Now there are provisions in the law that protect domestic animals inside an enclosure, such as you cant shoot or hunt domesticated deer inside an enclosure you cant go around blasting anything that goes oink. Deer farmers and hunters got hit with lots of regulations and restrictions two years ago because of a cervid (deer,elk,reindeer,moose,wapiti muntjacs and sikas) virus outbreak a couple years ago that hurt our deer population. This law is just that for pig farmers and the few if any actual wild/feral hogs running around our beautiful state (seriously check it out we could use the cash). So thats how we here view it here, just another protective measure to ensure the livelihood of our natural resources.And those regulations for deer farmers and hunters worked no more infected deer as of 2010.

By the way I know this post is probaly riddled with typo's and grammar errors, im a redneck and gotta run to work... nough said.

Peace and love and Git-r-done.
-citizenjack

Well friend sorry but it seems as if you are not as familiar with the so called law as you think. It does not define domestic pigs as being in a pen In fact it does not define them at all. it simply says you cannot own any pig that has even a single feral trait and it lists the traits. That my friend is a pretty broad brush giving government free reign to declare any pig they want feral based on as little as just the tips of hair color. Don't be fooled by the line about it not being intended to target domestic pigs that is just to appease folks. Especially when they do not define how they determine if a pig is domestic but instead give themselves broad powers to declare any pig that is not pink and pure white as a feral strain.

AS for the so called feral and disease problem that is their "its for the children" line... Do you think that farmer in the OP video is just blowing smoke for fun? No he knows what is going on and his herd is at risk.

Those that say or think oh yea but they won't use the power to destroy family farm herds are naive at best and stupid at worst. Look around you when has government not abused its power? Why tempt fate and give them the power in the first place if you don't want them to use it? Just like the patriot act military commissions act etc. was sold as it will not be used on American citizens and it was and now we have NDAA...Sigh.

The problem of feral pigs is already adequately controlled. You just said yourself their are very few feral pigs and any pig feral or domestic can be shot on site if it is destroying property there is no need for this so called law. You guys have been baited and switched and granted the government the ability to stamp out competition for their corporate benefactors (in this case the corporate pork factory farms) with this broad brush so called law.

Well friend sorry but it seems as if you are not as familiar with the so called law as you think. It does not define domestic pigs as being in a pen In fact it does not define them at all. it simply says you cannot own any pig that has even a single feral trait and it lists the traits. That my friend is a pretty broad brush giving government free reign to declare any pig they want feral based on as little as just the tips of hair color. Don't be fooled by the line about it not being intended to target domestic pigs that is just to appease folks. Especially when they do not define how they determine if a pig is domestic but instead give themselves broad powers to declare any pig that is not pink and pure white as a feral strain.

The word Feral is defined as :
A feral organism is one that has changed from being domesticated to being wild or untamed.
Some trait of feral pigs after they become wild again is longer tusk, a humped back and growth of hair. As I tried to say before but realize I didnt make clear enough is everyone around me (cant speak for the whole state) farmers and hunters included are not worried. I will give you a shred of acknowledgment with you saying it may be out of being Naive. But to call residents of a state stupid for trying to protect the very fragile thing we love is pretty mean spirited. We live here, folks around here are not sounding the alarms there are no pig death squads being formed to knock down farmers doors. One or two outspoken pig ranchers (they lease these pigs out to be hunted as a wild game to be shot and killed by the way) should not cause alarm. These pig ranchs are not always up kept and pigs get out and form packs of feral pigs. Ask florida residents. Your average joe pig for food farmer is ok I assure you. Many domesticated varieties of pigs are not pink do a google search for the good ole pot belly pig and see what color it is. Please at least do the google search so when you reply back you will see what I mean and we can have a structured civil discussion. Oh and the reason we can shoot feral pigs and escaped pigs is the because of the very law that we are discussing the two are one and the same.

Hot and Cold but never Warm.
-citizenjack

Originally posted by hawkiye

The problem of feral pigs is already adequately controlled.

Please stop weighing in on this subject.

You literally have no experience with what is going on, and have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by hawkiye

The problem of feral pigs is already adequately controlled.

Please stop weighing in on this subject.

You literally have no experience with what is going on, and have no idea what you are talking about.

Wow you really proved all my points wrong... Oh wait...Sigh It's my thread genius you're free to leave it if you don't like what is being said but don't come on here and tell me to stop posting in my own thread while you continue to post non-germane ridiculous drivel. You can think you are some self appointed expert on the topic all you like knock yourself out however no one cares...

Originally posted by CitizenJack

Well friend sorry but it seems as if you are not as familiar with the so called law as you think. It does not define domestic pigs as being in a pen In fact it does not define them at all. it simply says you cannot own any pig that has even a single feral trait and it lists the traits. That my friend is a pretty broad brush giving government free reign to declare any pig they want feral based on as little as just the tips of hair color. Don't be fooled by the line about it not being intended to target domestic pigs that is just to appease folks. Especially when they do not define how they determine if a pig is domestic but instead give themselves broad powers to declare any pig that is not pink and pure white as a feral strain.

The word Feral is defined as :
A feral organism is one that has changed from being domesticated to being wild or untamed.
Some trait of feral pigs after they become wild again is longer tusk, a humped back and growth of hair. As I tried to say before but realize I didnt make clear enough is everyone around me (cant speak for the whole state) farmers and hunters included are not worried. I will give you a shred of acknowledgment with you saying it may be out of being Naive. But to call residents of a state stupid for trying to protect the very fragile thing we love is pretty mean spirited. We live here, folks around here are not sounding the alarms there are no pig death squads being formed to knock down farmers doors. One or two outspoken pig ranchers (they lease these pigs out to be hunted as a wild game to be shot and killed by the way) should not cause alarm. These pig ranchs are not always up kept and pigs get out and form packs of feral pigs. Ask florida residents. Your average joe pig for food farmer is ok I assure you. Many domesticated varieties of pigs are not pink do a google search for the good ole pot belly pig and see what color it is. Please at least do the google search so when you reply back you will see what I mean and we can have a structured civil discussion. Oh and the reason we can shoot feral pigs and escaped pigs is the because of the very law that we are discussing the two are one and the same.

Hot and Cold but never Warm.
-citizenjack

Your missing the point entirely and putting your head in the sand. it doesn't matter what you think is a domestic pig or what the definition of a feral pig is yeah I know not all domestic pigs are pink but that doesn't matter what matters is what the government says and does and that is the point you are missing. You are part of the problem not the solution. Your attitude that it is only a few farmers is wrong and uninformed and that they are leasing them for hunting etc. And your assumption that its no big deal to the majority may be correct but only cause of government propaganda and misinformation and apathy such a you display.

if you can read the so called law and not see the broad sweeping powers it grants state government and not get alarmed then good luck because one day those powers will be used against you but hey if it is not effecting you at the moment then it must not be a problem in your mind... Sigh

It is my problem I have dealt with feral pigs before and know what they can do and if this flies in one state it will spread to others. So stop thinking because you live there its no one else business and that you exclusively know whats going on and no one else could possibly understand.

I have dealt with government tyranny and fought it on many levels for many years. Trust me this will come back to bite you hard of you let it stand and don't get more informed, actually read the so called law and get involved.... There is better ways to deal with this then granting government free reign over livestock and it won;t stop at pigs! if you don't understand that then you are not a farmer and have never had to deal with government BeauruRats!

reply to post by hawkiye


One of us has actually walked in the fields where this is going on.
One of us has actually spoken with the DNR officials.
One of us has actually spoken with the citizens involved.
One of us has actually had property damaged by the boars.
One of us has actually been following this for a decade.

One of us has done all of these things.. the other is you.

You have read a sensationalized story on the internet and decided to become an Internet Hero and declare the regulation a bad thing. Well, guess what, junior? The people of Michigan do not think it is a bad thing, and they want these things out of the state.

So, how about instead of making ignorant replies to a knee-jerk thread, you listen to what people from the state that have been dealing with this problem for years are telling you? Nope, can't be bothered with that, because you have known about the problem for all of 3 days now, and you are an expert.

Your missing the point entirely and putting your head in the sand. it doesn't matter what you think is a domestic pig or what the definition of a feral pig is yeah I know not all domestic pigs are pink but that doesn't matter what matters is what the government says and does and that is the point you are missing. You are part of the problem not the solution. Your attitude that it is only a few farmers is wrong and uninformed and that they are leasing them for hunting etc. And your assumption that its no big deal to the majority may be correct but only cause of government propaganda and misinformation and apathy such a you display.

reply to post by hawkiye


Well I have idea I have always believed in the power of compromise. Since I stand on one side of the fence and you the other lets take down the fence. The most productive things happen when you take down barriers. So I volenteer to be your boots on the ground. Im in the thick of it. I'll keep you updated and posted on the happenings around me and i'll actually get involved in disscusion with the farmers and DNR officers and see how this is affecting them. I do know how state laws tend to spread. I'll contact the pig farm where we have purchased pigs in the past to hear thier reaction (its a pretty large operation with lots of varieties and breeds). And i'll get in touch with smaller local farms. And i'll even try to contact my state rep I used to be in 4-H with him. Not all politictians are bought and paid for. I still believe its not a large scale annihilation scheme but will do some leg work for both of us in case there is some wool over my eye's. Are you willing to try this both sides approach?

Comprimise and compassion.
- Citizenjack