Impeachment Resolution Against Bush

Lets also try to clear something out.

If the US, or the coalition finds 1 wmd in Iraq, does it stop being a wmd because it is only 1? If Saddam had only 1 wmd doesn't that violate the resolution he agreed with of not having any wmd?

What about if it is 4 wmd that the US and coalition finds??

Note that at the start of the war, Iraq fired, at least one scud missile, and at least two Al Samoud 2 missiles, all which were banned from Iraq by the UN.

What about the hundreds of rockets of banned missiles that were found in Iraq, and even UNMOVIC states that they were in possesion of Iraq until March 2003?

Wasn't Saddam breaching the accord by having all these banned parts, which are used for wmd, not for storing milk or rice...??

If you go over every quote Bush, or Blair have said about not finding wmd...you will find that what they have most prbably said is that stockpiles of wmd (the ones that that UNSCOM said were unnacounted for) have not been found....

There is a difference with not finding any wmd, and not finding [stockpiles of wmd.

The coalition has found wmd the whole enchillada that democrats and liberals are trying to use against Bush is that the stockpiles of wmd cannot be found.... That and the fact that many liberals and Democrats for one reason or another, do not know, or see the difference in wmd and stockpiles of wmd.

They think because there have been statements like 'we haven't found stockpiles of wmd" that no wmd have been found at all, which is not true.

The UNSCOM inspectors "believe" that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons.

"Belieive" is the operative word there in your last post. There is a difference between just "believing" and "having the facts" to back up that belief. Now if they have the facts than those facts are IMO false because at this moment in time THEIR ARE NO WMD'S IN IRAQ. I haven't seen any evidence on the news at all. Have you?

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib

Its a difference betwee thinking, that is just an Idea, now actual finding MWDs, then it becomes fact and tangible, now is not where to be found I mean the MWDs and we may spend a life time looking for it, so as now is just an Idea. If you take and Idea to court it will not stand a chance.

Is like me telling I have and Idea of having gold in my yard but actually finding the gold well I can dig all my life and never find a darn thing.Righ?

I see....so first because the "supposed lies of Bush" and now because according to you no wmd were found...

You see, you keep changing your mind why you want to bash Bush...

I think the problem is that some people, just want to Bash Bush, whether or not they have the correct information, or whether or not is the truth....that's the bottom line.

Well, at least now we can all agree that Bush was not lying about what he said huh? or if he was, then the whole world including the Germans, the French, the former US administration, Kerry and most democrats were also lying.....All of these people were talking about Iraq's wmd also before the war, and including before the present administration. Well... Kerry is another story, he keeps changing his statements so much that he does lie.

Ok, lets start, one thing that you must note is that part of the ban was also that Saddam had to stop trying to continue any wmd programs, this included having blueprints and information needed to restart wmd programs...

In this link you will find a list of all the documents that the coalition, including members like Australia and the UK have found in Iraq. I am not going to quote just some things, because the lists are long and there are many pictures.

STATEMENT BY DAVID KAY ON THE INTERIM PROGRESS REPORT ON THE ACTIVITIES OF THE IRAQ SURVEY GROUP (ISG)
October 2, 2003

Marg....ok...let me first give you some quotes from newspaper as to what is the deal behind the wmd and stockpiles of wmd issue.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The former top U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq on Wednesday blamed intelligence failures for the apparently incorrect conclusion that Saddam Hussein possessed large stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction before the U.S.-led invasion.

Excerpted from.
www.cnn.com...

Now, lets look at the evidence, by first trying to find out what a wmd is, and what was banned from Iraq by the UN.

The most accepted defintion these days for wmd is NBC, Nuclear, Biological and Chemical.

There have been some discussions whether or not the banned missiles that Iraq was not supposed to have, yet fired, are wmd. Some reports were saying that around 9 missiles were fired into Kuwait from Iraq, but most of them just hit the water or way off target, while a few were intercepted by Patriot missiles.

Iraq Fires 9th Missile to Kuwait, No Casualties Reported

There is the following report about the missiles that Iraq had and under what resolution they were not supposed to have them.

web.ics.purdue.edu...

But, there is also this...

October 6, 2003
Proof of Saddam's WMDs

TONY SNOW: Let's take a quick look at some of the headlines from this week characterizing your report. I want to get your reaction to them.

Here we see The New York Times: "No Illicit Arms." The Washington Post: "No Banned Weapons." The Los Angeles Times: "No Illicit Iraqi Arms." USA Today: "No Illegal Weapons."

Is that what you found?

DAVID KAY: Well, we certainly found that � have not yet found illicit arms. But that's not the only thing the report says. In fact, I'm sort of amazed at what was powerful information about both their intent and their actual activities that were not known and were hidden from UN inspectors seems not to have made it to the press. This is information that, had it been available last year, would have been headline news.

SNOW: One of the things that you found, for instance, is the Mukhabarat, the secret service, in fact had a vigorous weapons program of its own. Tell us about it.

KAY: Well, we have found right now � and we're still finding them � over two dozen laboratories that were hidden in the Iraqi intelligence service, the Mukhabarat, were not declared to the U.N., had prohibited equipment, and carried on activities that should have been declared.

Now, at the minimum, they kept alive Iraq's capability to produce both biological and chemical weapons. We found assassination tools. So we know that, in fact, they had a prohibited intent to them.

SNOW: You also talk about reference strains of biological agents. What does that mean?

KAY: Well, that's one of the most fascinating stories. An Iraqi scientist in 1993 hid in his own refrigerator reference strains for � active strains, actually would've � were still active when we found them � Botulinum toxin, one of the most toxic elements known.

He was also asked to hide others, including anthrax. After a couple of days, he turned them back because he said they were too dangerous; he had small children in the house.

This is typical. We now have three cases in which scientists have come forward with equipment, technology, diagrams, documents and, in this case, actual weapons material, reference strains and Botulinum toxin, that they were told to hide and that the UN didn't find.

SNOW: You believe that there are similar strains perhaps throughout Iraq right now?

KAY: We're actively searching for at least one more cache of weapons � of strains that we know exists.

SNOW: This is a cache that had been referred to by a scientist. The first bit of information paid off; you're still looking for the second one?

KAY: Exactly.

SNOW: And the second one is a large cache.

KAY: It's much larger. It contains anthrax, and that's one reason we're actively interested in getting it.

SNOW: Now, you also talk about new research on biological capable agents, such as Brucella, Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever, Ricin and Naflotoxin (ph).

KAY: That's exactly right, and that's the things I'm surprised no one has paid attention to.

The new strains they're working on, including Congo-Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever, are something that should have been reported to the UN In fact, all of the work should have been reported. It was not reported.

This is activities, prohibited activities they've carried on. And this continued right up to 2003 in these four cases, unreported, undiscovered.

SNOW: Unreported and undiscovered.

When you're analyzing how much information was kept from the UN, how would you characterize it?

KAY: Dozens of cases right now that are significant. The most significant, of course, is in the missile area, where we're talking about activity on four different fronts that would have provided missiles capable of exceeding the UN limit of 150 kilometers.

Excerpted from.
www.frontpagemag.com...






[edit on 23-9-2004 by Muaddib]

Did Saddam have wmd? YES

You can yell, bark, bash and do whatever you want, wether or not what Kay mentions above were inside missiles ready to be used, there were strains that Saddam had and were working on. And i have not mentioned yet his nuclear program.

Now, here it is where we seemed to have gotten our information a bit messed up, Saddam was working on acquiring all three, nuclear, chemical and biological, but luckily we caught up to him before he could actually finish the programs and put those into missiles.

So, did we have reasons to attack Iraq and oust Saddam?? YES

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Muaddib]

The only barking and yelling is you not body here is doing it just you if you can not get a fair debate without trashing the post then I will have nothing to said to you.

I though you were a reasonable person I guess you are not, it was not MWDs and it was not hundred of thousands of mass grave.

US went into Iraq over 10,000 has die and bush should be accountable for the destruction of that country and the death his irrationality has done.

And again I guess your job is not to do a debate but to trash post that you do not agree with it, and still the issue stand.

Iraq is in chaos civilians and our troops are being killed and none of the bias �poof� you have shown said anything but the possibility of or the though of.

Perhaps you got mix with the first gulf war and do not know how to separate facts from fiction but trashing post is all you want.

True Kerry voted yes on the Patriot act.... but e voted on the version that was actually sighted, not the updated version. Funny how they changed parts of it and forgot to tell the senate before they voted on it.

And the 1 'WMD' found was a Sarin gas shell... hardly a WMD, capable of killing maybe 1 or 2 people (possibly a little more, but no more than a clip from an AK-47).

[Edited on 23-9-2004 by specialasianX]

Originally posted by mrmulder
His family does hold alot power in this country. Let's look at the family to see how many have held power in office.

1. George H.W. Bush: President
2. Jeb Bush: Governor Florida
3. George W. Bush: Governor of Texas and current President
4. Presscott Bush: Senator from Connecticut

Geez, alot of Bush's have been in office over the years. Wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't you think that they were born with leadership in their blood? Is it because he's a Republican, or the person you voted for in 2000 didn't win is the cause of your hatred towards Bush? It's my assumption that you believe if Al Gore had won in 2000, 9/11 would have never happened. You also believe that if Kerry wins (which he's not) in November, the war in Iraq will suddenly cease, terrorist activities will cease and Osama will come out of hiding because, and as usual with Democratic presidents, be granted a full pardon and invited to the White House for tea and crumpets. Doesn't any Democrat have any idea of who is really in favor of the security of this nation? From what I read here, I can't see it.


[edit on 23/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Mr Mulder,
Did you get this document from Dan Rather at CBS news?

I love this line,

ramming the totalitarian U.S.A. Patriot Act through Congress;

Soo blame Bush for all of the DEMOCRATIC members of the House and Senate for voting for the Patriot act?!? All those dem's are in Bushes pocket to use as he wishes eh?
Boy that GWB is really all powerful if he can manipulate his major opposition's whole party like that.
Oh yeah, dont hold ANY of Congress for passing this bill up to the whitehouse for Bush to sign....

Kozmo asks for the same thing I do,

Rather than hide behind some BS legalese that some crack lib has posted, why not outline the SPECIFIC acts that Bush has committed that warrant impeachment!?

Ummm i think the answer is because THEY CANT! If Bush's political opponents COULD have done this they already would have...the fact remains that its all hype, conjecture, and wishful thinking.
Do you think Bush is affraid of impeachment in the slightest, certantly not with the un-actionable crap that is dreampt up as evidence.

Marg,
i like the ever changing series of avatars, but still question if you actually live in THIS universe.

Marg talks about the WMD "lie",

Is like me telling I have and Idea of having gold in my yard but actually finding the gold well I can dig all my life and never find a darn thing.Righ?

So if you think you have gold in your yard, and you push the shovel into the ground once, then you might as well dig up the whole yard as, based on what you knew at the time, you began to look.

Please explain to me how telling your family your going to dig up gold in the yard, taking actions, based on the info you had at the time, becomes a lie later on when you dont discover what you thought you would?
Wouldnt this be an error, not a lie? There is a BIG difference between the two.

After the fact and revisionist creation of an idea to fit our need to bash Bush, is pretty desperate. And complete disreguard for the WORLDS intelligence and history of saddam and the UN actions against him concerning WMD issues isnt being realistic...its putting your head into the sand and pretending that never happened. Then you want to turn around and say long after the fact that this was not just an intelligence error but a lie attributible to ONE person is rediculous.

How many years did we give inspectors the time to look before passing judgment of non compliance, and how many years have we actually had the full chance to search unencumbered? When 1/2 the ammount of time that was wasted with inspections has gone by THEN, perhaps weve devoted enough time to have searched Iraq to be sure we didnt miss finding them.
For everyone that claims the USA didnt give inspections enough time,
i say, we havnt given the search process enough time.

Marg says,

Iraq is in chaos civilians and our troops are being killed and none of the bias �poof� you have shown said anything but the possibility of or the though of.

here is some "facts" that people thought because everyone said they were, that until someone DID SOMETHING to examine it, wouldnt have been disproved.

the world is flat
man cant fly
no one will ever get to the moon
Iraq has WMD (still not a 100% proven situation)

In ALL these cases, it took BOLD people, ones willing to risk ridicule and scorn, to actually TRY to change these well intrenched ideas.
were these examples all lies? Or were they just false premises based upon available information of the time? (note the term premise and not pretence..premice implies a beliefe, pretence implies an agenda)

OHH SING IT TO THE MOUNTAINS>>>>>IMPEACH BUSH>>>LA LA LAAAA>>>IMPEACH BUSH

just come up with some actual, actionable evidence and not biased, conjective pretense.

I don't need to feel pages with useless information bias �that could be truth�, people knows what is going on with this moronic president and he is going out. And then he should pay for the death of all the people he had killed in his crusade in the name of the god that talks to him, and told him to go and take out Sadam.

I am not following any political party agenda like obviously some of you are we have a bad apple in the white house and we the people are going to throw him in the trash.

NO body around in this post can denied that people are dying and that bush irrational war is doing it, putting our troops in harms way because he can not even think what irracional actions can do.

Get it he, is the reason people are dying in Iraq and he should be brought up to justice.

If king George had kept his arse out of Iraq our soldiers and the innocent in Iraq that had die so far will be alive today.

I guess some of you wants the war in Iraq, how can anybody enjoy seen our troops been ambush and kill and like looking at picture of children death If that what the people of US likes. I think not, and I hope none of you bush supporters either.

May sombody have mercy on your souls.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Wouldn't you think that they were born with leadership in their blood?

Possibly but then again both Dubya and his father were members of Skull and Bones and I know that many member of that secret society have gotten into high levels of power

Is it because he's a Republican, or the person you voted for in 2000 didn't win is the cause of your hatred towards Bush?

Well, guess what? I voted for Bush in 2000. Go figure. Isn't that a surprise.

It's my assumption that you believe if Al Gore had won in 2000, 9/11 would have never happened.

Possibly but we'll never know. Will we?

You also believe that if Kerry wins (which he's not) in November, the war in Iraq will suddenly cease, terrorist activities will cease and Osama will come out of hiding because, and as usual with Democratic presidents, be granted a full pardon and invited to the White House for tea and crumpets.

Nope because Kerry has the same agenda Bush does which is why I'm not voting for either of them.



[edit on 24-9-2004 by mrmulder]

Originally posted by CazMedia
Mr Mulder,
Did you get this document from Dan Rather at CBS news?

I never saw that document. My view on the Patriot Act still stands. It is uneccessary and I know that hardly any member of congress was allowed to read the bill before it was passed. You can laugh all you want. I'm not insulted.

The is no reason in any way shape or form why Bush should be impeached...once again...Liberals are screaming "impeach" w/o know why or even the meaning of the word...just because you dont like the guy...doesnt make him impeachment-worthy...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
The is no reason in any way shape or form why Bush should be impeached...once again...Liberals are screaming "impeach" w/o know why or even the meaning of the word...just because you dont like the guy...doesnt make him impeachment-worthy...

Okay, so maybe he doesn't need to be impeached but he's done alot of things in this Administration that should get him kicked out of office or resign.

Originally posted by specialasianX
True Kerry voted yes on the Patriot act.... but e voted on the version that was actually sighted, not the updated version. Funny how they changed parts of it and forgot to tell the senate before they voted on it.

[Edited on 23-9-2004 by specialasianX]

WHAT A LOAD OF BS!!! Where did you hear that!?!? Apparently you are not the least bit familiar with the legislative process in the US. A Bill CANNOT be changed without first offerring a debate on the floor. It CANNOT be done and has NEVER been done. Now, Kerry obviously hasn't been showing up for work for about two years so perhaps he wasn't aware that the changes WERE DEBATED in accordance with procedure and cast a vote without doing his homework!

Now, honest to God, when are you people going to start looking at KERRY's atrocious record and hold HIM accountable!?

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by specialasianX
True Kerry voted yes on the Patriot act.... but e voted on the version that was actually sighted, not the updated version. Funny how they changed parts of it and forgot to tell the senate before they voted on it.

[Edited on 23-9-2004 by specialasianX]

WHAT A LOAD OF BS!!! Where did you hear that!?!?

I agree. Kerry did not vote on the Patriot Act.

www.amperspective.com...

Originally posted by mrmulder
[I agree. Kerry did not vote on the Patriot Act.

www.amperspective.com...

Huh??? Quoted from your article... "At the same time, Kerry defended the original intent behind the overwhelming support for the Patriot Act after Sept. 11. Kerry voted with 98 other senators to approve the legislation."

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by mrmulder
[I agree. Kerry did not vote on the Patriot Act.

www.amperspective.com...

Huh??? Quoted from your article... "At the same time, Kerry defended the original intent behind the overwhelming support for the Patriot Act after Sept. 11. Kerry voted with 98 other senators to approve the legislation."

Oh, sorry about that. Kerry flip flopped on the Patriot Act. My bad.

Too funny! I almost spit my coffee out all over my computer. Good one, MrMulder!

Yes, yes... too true... Mr. Kerry truly has a way of hedging his bets by trying to play both sides of the fence. Obviously this guy is NOT presidential material.

Originally posted by kozmo
Too funny! I almost spit my coffee out all over my computer. Good one, MrMulder!

Yes, yes... too true... Mr. Kerry truly has a way of hedging his bets by trying to play both sides of the fence. Obviously this guy is NOT presidential material.

Neither was bush and he became one. But then again people tough like father like son and his father was smatter than the son after all.:shk:

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib,

Anything in the name of god (I mean bush) and democracyyyyyyyyy, it we still have one.

And by the way the Supreme Court started to belong to the Republicans since Reagan years.

And by the way I think that taking over another country without declaring a war making and invasion illegal and killing already thousand in the name of liberation should be enough to take care of god (I mean bush) in the white house.

Sorry people but I will never hide that our president is a moron, haaa democracy and good politicians are just but a dream.

sorry to burst your bubble but the war was legal. I seem to remember congress voting on it.