The Beezzer's Court

reply to post by beezzer


Your Honor,

Now that Dembow has taken over the position of prosecution and restated their position in the case, does the defense get to do the same? (Though I think it was put forward rather nicely in the first place.)

I have been in contact with my fellow team member KonquestAbySS and will give any research that I find and he will present it, if relevant. One unified voice as it were.

I will only post if needed for clarification on a certain matter or subject. Or if a question is directed towards me.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by beezzer

 

Your Honor,

Now that Dembow has taken over the position of prosecution and restated their position in the case, does the defense get to do the same? (Though I think it was put forward rather nicely in the first place.)

Yes.

I have been in contact with my fellow team member KonquestAbySS and will give any research that I find and he will present it, if relevant. One unified voice as it were.

I will only post if needed for clarification on a certain matter or subject. Or if a question is directed towards me.

Sounds good. Since prosecution restated, it's only right since you'd be addressing somthing different.

Please proceed.

Originally posted by Dembow
Thank you, Judge.

The case the prosecution will present is very simple. The defendant overstepped his duties as Neighborhood Watch Captain resulting in the victim's death. Also the use of force by the defendant was excessive since he victim was unarmed and defending himself from the agressive act of stalking and harrasment by the defendant.

Case is simple:

Means: Mr. Zimmerman is an experienced gun owner, perfectly capable of using firearms efectively as he has tragically already demonstrated. As NWC Mr. Zimmerman had good knowledge of the area wich made it easier for him to stalk the victim, a victim on foot who tried to flee a pursuer in a vehicle and failed.

Motive: It is a fact the defendant was worried about an alledge "rash" of break-ins in the neighborhood and this compelled him to go beyond his duties as NWC. Important to note we don't have statistics of break-ins in the area to be sure if Mr. Zimmerman attitude was justified.
That defendant calling the victim "coon" certainly gives us reason to believe he had other sinister reasons for following Mr. Martin.

Intent: Mr. Zimmerman expressed his frustration when he stated "They always get away"
He wanted Mr. Martin to be the exception to the rule (as he believed) and went beyond his duties as NWC to make an example of Mr. Martin. Evidence of his intent: he ignored 911 operators when told they didnt need him to pursue. A job for law enforcement wich he isn"t

Opportunity: Mr. Zimmerman was in a perfect position to commit the crime. Thanks to his position as NWC he was able to cruise around the neighborhood at night without causing suspicion of his activities.
His position as NWC would also give credibility to anything he claimed in the face of the neighborhood.

If you had already called the police, Why keep following Mr. Martin? Sit back and let the police deal with it, that's what they're there for.

*English is not my native, please excuse any mistakes. Ask me if I didn't make myself clear thanks*

I would like the prosecution to know that a gated community is actually considered privet propriety. Mr martin was in fact at the time trespassing onto privet propriety when he was followed.
The only intent Zimmerman showed was interest about the trespasser and he followed him.With Mr Zimmerman being a homeowner as well as NWC that is all the intent needed.

"he was able to cruise around the neighborhood at night without causing suspicion of his activities".

Let the prosecution note that driving on propriety you pay to be a part of is legal and shouldn't be suspicious, and in all actuality Mr Zimmerman had more of a right to be there then Mr Martin did.

"That defendant calling the victim "coon" certainly gives us reason to believe he had other sinister reasons for following Mr. Martin."

Unless the prosecution brings in an audio expert as well as a undeniable proof these exact word are said the statement is pure conjecture.

"His position as NWC would also give credibility to anything he claimed in the face of the neighborhood."

Let the prosecution note that eye witness testimony has been given in regards to actual events with audio evidence to back up the testimony of the eye witness.

Would prosecution like to re-address the defenses points?

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Yes your Honor.

1- Mr.Martin's father was also part of the gated community. That's why Mr. Martin was there. He was not tresspasing since he was staying with his father. He had as much right to be there and walk around as Mr. Zimmerman. Mr. Zimmerman didn't know Mr. Martin since he was visiting, because of that we can say Mr. Zimmerman followed and not because he was tresspasing. As NWC, his duties are to observe and report, not engage a private citizen who had broken no law.

2-If driving around the gated community was not part of his routine as NWC, then yes it would be suspicious.
Again no reason to follow Mr Martin, he had a right to be there. Ife he seemed suspicious his job was to call the police or his fellow neighborhood watchers since no law had been broken, is a group not a lone man operation.

3- I'm sorry, since I don't watch american t.v. and go by what I read aound here I was under the impression it was accepted as common knowlege. I withdraw the "coon" statement if it isn't fact.

4- Please state the specific events the eyewitnesses describe so I can adress those.

Originally posted by Dembow
reply to post by digital01anarchy

 

Yes your Honor.

1- Mr.Martin's father was also part of the gated community. That's why Mr. Martin was there. He was not tresspasing since he was staying with his father. He had as much right to be there and walk around as Mr. Zimmerman. Mr. Zimmerman didn't know Mr. Martin since he was visiting, because of that we can say Mr. Zimmerman followed and not because he was tresspasing. As NWC, his duties are to observe and report, not engage a private citizen who had broken no law.

For the record, Mr. Prosecutor, does a NWC normally get notification of new arrivals to the community?

(rhetorical, mosly, but I felt an important point to illustrate)

reply to post by beezzer


Yes, your honor is an important point since we have no knowledge of the procedures regarding notifications of new arrivals at the community.

I would also like to remind the Defense that they didn't aknowledge the following points:

1- The fact that the police had already been called.
2- Ignoring the advice of 911 Operators trained to deal with dangerous situations and emergencies.

Originally posted by Dembow
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yes, your honor is an important point since we have no knowledge of the procedures regarding notifications of new arrivals at the community.

I would also like to remind the Defense that they didn't aknowledge the following points:

1- The fact that the police had already been called.
2- Ignoring the advice of 911 Operators trained to deal with dangerous situations and emergencies.

New arrivals/residents of the Twin Lakes Gated Community are required to sign off on a Home Owners Association rules and by-laws prior to even signing the contract.

Notification of their arrival to others in the community is not standard as the new residents are expected to abide by the same HOA rules and by-laws as long time residents.

Since the City of Sanford recognized that a Neighborhood Watch had been established to assist with the deterrence of crime within the neighborhood, the police knew of Mr. Zimmerman as he had called the Police numerous times in the past in this capacity.

Despite the fact that the police had already been called and advice given to Mr. Zimmerman, we must remember that tensions were high in this neighborhood as there had been a rash recent of break-ins.

It is also stated in testimony that Mr. Zimmerman had broken off and was returning to his SUV when he was attacked.

If it may please the Bench I will present the residents view of their overall situation.

www.thedailybeast.com...

To quote one resident after a recent break-in,

"There was definitely a sense of fear in the neighborhood after all of this started happening, and it just kept on happening. It wasn't just a one-time thing. It was every week," she said. "Our next-door neighbor actually said if someone came into his yard he would shoot him. If someone came into his house he would shoot him. Everyone felt afraid and scared."

So emotions were obviously already high which led to this tragic event.

reply to post by TDawgRex
I'll allow it as it is pertanent to the actions taken the night of the incident.

And thank you for the information on notification and new occupant regulations.

Prosecution, rebuttal?

reply to post by TDawgRex


Yes, your Honor.

So Mr. zimmerman had done this before, but somehow this incident went horribly wrong. Why?
He knew the police would arrive since they knew Mr. Zimmerman and still decided to engage a private citizen who had broken no law.

We dont know in wich manner Mr. Zimmerman engaged Mr.Martin, to cause Mr. Martin to attack him.
His first reaction was to get away and he failed. Why? No mortal danger from a fleeing person.
We only have Mr. Zimmerman's account on how he interacted with Mr. Martin before he "broke off".
Did he identify himself as NWC?

He used a firearm on a minor who posed no mortal danger to him even if he was being beaten.
This is a 17 year old no matter how big he was. Mr. Zimmerman was the adult, the armed adult.
He should have handled the situation better. Let's remember this wouldn't have happened if Mr. Zimmerman had decided to enage Mr. Martin violating his right to be at peace walking around eating skittles and drinking ice tea.

Any neighbor saying they would shoot anyone for standing in their yard is clearly breaking the law.
If this was the mentality in the community, it certainly doesn't help Mr.Zimmerman does it?

Thank you, prosecution.

Defense has one more oppourtunity for rebuttal then I'd like both sides to prepare closing statements.
These can be as long or as short as you prefer.

Prosecution will close first, followed by the defense.

Then the ball will be in the jury's court. Madam Foreman mamabeth will preside over jury deliberation (in the discussion forum or by U2U please).

Once that is done mamabeth, please notify me of the verdict (U2U). We'll return to this thread for the reading. Once the verdict has been read, if you could provide a brief synopsis of the reasons and the interpretation of the facts given by both prosecution and defense.

Again, thank you all for keeping this civil and respectful. You all have made this thead a benchmark in debate!

reply to post by Dembow

He used a firearm on a minor who posed no mortal danger to him even if he was being beaten. This is a 17 year old no matter how big he was. Mr. Zimmerman was the adult, the armed adult. He should have handled the situation better. Let's remember this wouldn't have happened if Mr. Zimmerman had decided to enage Mr. Martin violating his right to be at peace walking around eating skittles and drinking ice tea.

Your Honor I would like to respond to the prosecution...

How can you be so sure that Mr. Martin posed no danger to Mr Zimmerman at the time of the scuffle? Do we have any substantial visual evidence(video recording) showing that Mr Zimmerman over reacted by using the gun if he indeed was on the ground standing his ground? Remember all we have is the audio, and eyewitnesses. Which tell us someone was yelling for HELP, eyewitnesses claimed that Zimmerman was doing his civic duties for the gated community. Now why the cops didn't respond faster to this incident is questionable, the point is someone doesn't call the cops, and purposely shoot someone. If Mr Zimmerman was indeed trying to ask Mr Martin where he was heading at that time, and Mr Martin ignored the question and started running off then you can say that Mr Martin acted suspiciously. A gated community is private property and a concerned citizen that lives within that gated community has every right to approach someone who raises suspicion.

reply to post by beezzer


Your honor, I would like to add to KAS’s remarks

I believe that this sums up the defenses views regarding this matter.

"Oh how little we have learned," journalist David Shane wrote. “The media has rushed to judgment yet again. Now, it's quite possible that Zimmerman is guilty of everything his worst foes accuse him of. There is plenty about this case that troubles me. But that's exactly the point—I don't know. Neither does anyone else, and both the scope and tone of the media coverage ought to reflect that fact."

As it were, this is a court of opinion, yet it is also a great exercise at suppressing emotional thought and looking at this case rationally.

Emotions have overridden rational desire to see justice served. There may very well be more victims rather than one in this case as emotions run high and there are those who have called for those emotions to be acted upon and financially rewarded which is a crime unto itself.

Because 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was black and George Zimmerman has a white father and Hispanic mother, this case has become a racial flashpoint that has civil rights leaders and others leading a series of protests around the country.

Zimmerman said he shot Martin in self-defense and has not been arrested as of yet.

The Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police he lost Martin in the neighborhood he regularly patrolled and was walking back to his vehicle last month when the youth approached him from behind.
The two exchanged words, Zimmerman said, and Martin punched him, jumped on top of him and began banging his head on a sidewalk.

Zimmerman said he began crying for help; Martin's family thinks it was their son who was crying out. Witness accounts differ, and emergency tapes in which the voices are heard are not clear.

A statement from Sanford, Florida police said the newspaper story was "consistent" with evidence turned over to prosecutors.

The Sanford Police Department insisted there was no authorized release of that new information but acknowledged there may have been a leak. City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said it would be investigated and the person responsible could be fired.

I move that this case be dropped for the meantime and charges be filed against the Media and their editors for exasperating this case before all known facts are out.

reply to post by TDawgRex
The request for charges dropped is denied.

In a matter where a death has occurred, no investigatory stone should be left unturned. Regardless of whether the death was a result of justifiable efforts or not, the matter should be investigated.

I will now hear closing arguments,.

Prosecution's closing argument:

It really is difficult to truly know or interpret, what happened between Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman during the physical altercation. Especially after new evidence shows Mr. Zimmerman wasn't as injured as claimed.

Therefore we must focus on what brought us to the tragic altercation in the first place: --------------> Mr. Zimmerman's fatal decision to engage a private citizen who, again, had broken no law,

The prosecution's case is still simple:

1- Mr. Zimmerman went beyond his civic duties as NWC by agressively stalking Mr. Martin.---->Fatal mistake.

2- Mr. Zimmerman used lethal force on a minor who was defending himself from Mr. Zimmerman's actions after failing to get away from Mr. Zimmerman.----> Fatal Mistake.

Thank you.

I would like to ask the prosecution for a plea bargain.
Involuntary manslaughter with the ability to reduce sentence for good behavior. I think its in Prosecutions best interest considering they cant prove murder one and also cant prove that Mr Zimmerman had any idea that this situation would escalate to the point it did. I believe my client made a mistake in not paying attention to the 911 operator and is willing to admit some wrong

I'd have no problem with that, I agree with the defense.
That's why I focussed on excesive force, not outright murder.

Guess we'll have to wait the Judge's decision.

Kudos to the defense, great debate.

The request for a plea-bargain is denied.

Defense first asked for dismissal.
Now a plea bargain?

When the defense team can gain a consensus as to the direction of their proceedings, then I will make a final ruling.

And just to be fair (in this exercise) the jury has been patiently waiting to make a determination and pronounce a verdict.

Originally posted by beezzer
The request for a plea-bargain is denied.

Defense first asked for dismissal.
Now a plea bargain?

When the defense team can gain a consensus as to the direction of their proceedings, then I will make a final ruling.

And just to be fair (in this exercise) the jury has been patiently waiting to make a determination and pronounce a verdict.

Of course Your Honor,

When one tactic does not work, you try another, hence the plea bargain.

No slight intended of course.

I concur with my colleague digital01anarchy and ask of you to reconsider.

Of course we await the final decision from our other member of the defense team to present a united consensus.