US paid close to $50,000 per shooting spree death

Originally posted by jcarpenter
Hmmm .... $50,000 in fiat currency is worth about ..... $2.98 in real money.

Payback would be much more effective if we compensated the victims with a pound of flesh. A pound of flesh (removed from next-to-the-heart) from the political & military perps that are responsible for these war crimes.

An added benefit to such a compensation mechanism is that these crimes and war crimes would cease immediately.

Money always talks though. Especially when they don't have much to begin with.

I'm just wondering where the Afghan outrage is over these murders? They go nuts and riot over the burning of a book, but their fellow citizens are murdered and they are relatively quiet and quickly take blood money.

Originally posted by bg_socalif

Originally posted by jcarpenter
Hmmm .... $50,000 in fiat currency is worth about ..... $2.98 in real money.

Payback would be much more effective if we compensated the victims with a pound of flesh. A pound of flesh (removed from next-to-the-heart) from the political & military perps that are responsible for these war crimes.

An added benefit to such a compensation mechanism is that these crimes and war crimes would cease immediately.

Money always talks though. Especially when they don't have much to begin with.

I'm just wondering where the Afghan outrage is over these murders? They go nuts and riot over the burning of a book, but their fellow citizens are murdered and they are relatively quiet and quickly take blood money.

If you spoke Arabic you would know this was a huge outrage on this, this is causing Afghani to regroup and decide what to do about the American military and American placed government in the country.

This will change a lot about the Afghanistan conflict.

reply to post by Ek Bharatiya


Well I guess the Federal government finally put a price on human life

50000 USD for killing

11000 USD for injuries

what we have here is a huge problem... A huge problem...

here is why they dont want it to be listed as compensation...

Who made the decision to pay them... where did the money come from... by US law you have to have the legislative branch's authority for any deals with foreign powers....

They had to get signed agreements for court to insure they do not get sued... hence it is an agreement...

no signed agreement... us government just admitted responsibility and then the family members can just sue in us courts...

if they came to an understanding it is a legal agreement... still had to have congress's approval...


no matter which way you look at it , illegal...


We are a land of laws after all.... Who authorized the payment...
Treaties with Foreign Nations

The U.S. Constitution distinguishes treaties from other agreements and compacts in three principal ways. First, only the federal government can conclude a "Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation." States can make an "Agreement or Compact" with other states or with foreign powers but only with consent of the Congress (Article I, section 10).

Second, treaties are negotiated and ratified by the president, but he or she must obtain the advice and consent of the Senate, two-thirds of the senators present concurring (Article II, section 2, clause 2). President George Washington understood this provision to include Senate advice during both treaty negotiation and ratification. He attempted to consult with the Senate at an executive council concerning a proposed Indian treaty, but after a frustrating experience he declared that he "would be damned" if he ever did that again. Washington's successors sought the advice and consent of the Senate only after treaty negotiations, during the period of ratification.

Third, the Constitution distinguishes international treaties from "agreements and compacts" by making treaties part of the supreme law of the land that judges in every state are bound to enforce (Article VI, clause 2). The U.S. Supreme Court has on occasion asserted that it may nullify unconstitutional treaties, but it has never done so. International treaties are generally obligatory after signature and before formal ratification. In the United States, however, this is only true when a treaty is designated as "self-executing." Otherwise, under U.S. law, treaties are sent to Congress for legislative ratification and implementation.

Read more: www.answers.com...

The payments are illegal and could result in impeachment....

reply to post by ripcontrol


The compensation is done by the military, not the legislative. The money paid out comes from the Pentagons budget, and the criteria to pay out is usually reviewed and signed off on by JAG corp. Once approved the payout occurs.

It would be no different than the US military paying to rebuild a building / school etc that was damaged / destroyed. Congress is kept in the loop by approval at this level is not needed. The settlement with individuals is not quite the same as a government to government payment / resolution.

Since a lot of replies were about America putting more value on American lives than Afghans, does anyone know if they compensated the families of all the slain soldiers at Ft Hood, slaughtered by an American soldier named Major Hasan? And if they did make any compensation at all, does anyone have an amount? This will show the difference of the true value they place on American lives versus Afghans IMO, since both were American Soldiers killing innocent people...

Originally posted by Jameela
Yes, and in American eyes Afghani are worth nothing. I am offended by it personally, and I cannot believe that the Afghan people would accept it. This says American do not care what happened.They have their soldier and what happened means little to them. Afghani lives are worth nothing.

This is standard. We've been seeing it for a long time. A lot of Americans are white supremacists. If a person is not either white American or Jewish, they often aren't considered human by them.

so that's how much the American government thinks human beings are worth. I see.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I am not so sure...

Procedure does not trump law... nor is SOP for years to be taken as law... if documents where signed....


I think it is important that this part be looked at....

Is that $50,000 dollars in american cash....like could they even use that in Afghanistan, probably not they will most likely use it for a warm fire.

reply to post by Ek Bharatiya


I guess by that rationale, any demented one percenter could just go pop 50k in the slot and go shoot some innocents.

$50,000 is a complete and utter insult. Any amount would be an insult but, if you are going to try to pay for your national sins, at least offer them a million per lost life.

It's always entertaining to see the complete and total failure of people preaching cultural awareness to understand another culture.

The Middle East is a culture where people are almost literally valued based on their potential for work. $50K to each family is unfathomable amounts of money in that culture. The purchasing power it affords is staggering. New, younger wives can be found and new children can be born to carry on the family business of making little rocks out of big rocks. The $50K more than compensates for the economic damage done by this event.

What I find to be more disturbing is the bloodlust from our own society who want to practically lynch this man in spite of the fact that the case against him is absolutely ridiculous. It's not like he opened fire on a market full of people. He walked into people's homes, tied them up, killed them, and burned them (allegedly) ... all while drunk to the point of memory loss and without sustaining any visible injuries one would expect from rooms full of people taking measures of self-defense against the single, slobbering drunk.

There is so much more to this story than will ever get covered... but people just want someone to crucify.

It's pathetic, really.

Originally posted by JBD1979
Is that $50,000 dollars in american cash....l

No. it's $50,000 worth of vouchers that can only be used at Wal-Mart and McDonalds.

Did the towns people change their story about the killings before, or after the payout?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Jameela

 

The defense is going to say that as they are suppose to mount a zealous defense of their client. Its up to the government to make their case, not the accused. If we want to go down that road how mental to people have to be in order to kill over religious beliefs? In the Sgt.s case he has a JAG lawyer assigned to defend him as well as civilian council that was hired to assist.

You are not going to see a defense attorney making statements about how guilty his client is. that is a sure fire way to have a mistrial declared or establish grounds for reversal due to ineffective council.

If the death penalty is taken off the table then it will be life in prison if he is found guilty. Since you seem to be able to predict the future care to tell us the winning lotto numbers for Megamillions this coming Tuesday? Its up to 345 million dollars.

If the family accepts compensation, then its really none of our business to question that is it?


ETA - Where in the hell are you getting he would be quiestly released? Please support that claim with evidence for this case, or any other case.

edit on 25-3-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I am just saying what the judge will declare after all the evidence is heard.

Defense claims and will be able to prove: He was drunk, it was not premeditated, he had an exemplary service record, extenuating circumstances eg: PTSD (which will easily be proven)

It matters not what he is going to be charged with, he will be found guilty of 17 counts of aggravated involuntary manslaughter. See: law.onecle.com... (sentences to run concurrent)

(At most it will be felony homicide law.onecle.com... but if they can lessen that they will)

He will never see the death penalty. In the end they will rule this (or its military equivalent), there only real concern will be that it sounds like a severe sentence (therefore something like aggravated involuntary manslaughter will be fine because the Afghani English isn't always the best so they will go for something that sounds harsh and translates as harsh words into Arabic, but wont carry a large sentence)

he will have to be hospitalized for his PTSD (and severe distraught over his actions) and spend a little time in prison for the crimes, but it will not be long, when media coverage dies down he will go free.


As far as proof Americans try to quietly release people from jail or prison here is one such instance;

www.dailycal.org...


This is just my prediction, we will soon find out if I was right

Originally posted by Aim64C

What I find to be more disturbing is the bloodlust from our own society who want to practically lynch this man in spite of the fact that the case against him is absolutely ridiculous. It's not like he opened fire on a market full of people. He walked into people's homes, tied them up, killed them, and burned them (allegedly) ... all while drunk to the point of memory loss and without sustaining any visible injuries one would expect from rooms full of people taking measures of self-defense against the single, slobbering drunk.

There is so much more to this story than will ever get covered...

Your post and reports that up to twenty troops were involved does indeed strike a nerve. Several reports are that two of the women were raped prior to being murdered. Sure does not sound like a single, wasted perp eh?

The odd behavior of this soldier would seem to match the behavior of the crotch bomber. During the legal work, the crotch bomber called for the testimony of lawyers Kurt and Lori Haskell. Then, he pled guilty. Kurt Haskell was only able to put his story in the legal record by putting it in a victim impact statement to the court.

I wonder .....

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by bg_socalif

Originally posted by jcarpenter
Hmmm .... $50,000 in fiat currency is worth about ..... $2.98 in real money.

Payback would be much more effective if we compensated the victims with a pound of flesh. A pound of flesh (removed from next-to-the-heart) from the political & military perps that are responsible for these war crimes.

An added benefit to such a compensation mechanism is that these crimes and war crimes would cease immediately.

Money always talks though. Especially when they don't have much to begin with.

I'm just wondering where the Afghan outrage is over these murders? They go nuts and riot over the burning of a book, but their fellow citizens are murdered and they are relatively quiet and quickly take blood money.

If you spoke Arabic you would know this was a huge outrage on this, this is causing Afghani to regroup and decide what to do about the American military and American placed government in the country.

This will change a lot about the Afghanistan conflict.

edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

Having spent 15 yrs in the Middle East i do speak some Arabic. I know there was SOME outrage about this. But nothing on the scale that there was from the burning of the Quran.

I don't think this will change anything. It'll blow over just like any other "incident". The Afghan govt is all talk and no action.

Personally, we should get the heck out of there and leave them to their 7th century ignorant bliss. But there are huge mineral deposits to exploit there so we won't leave anytime soon.

reply to post by Jameela


Respectfully please learn how things work before making claims. The US military is not subject to domestic law. They are subject to the UCMJ - Uniform Code of Military Justice. You are linking your argument to the laws of Virginia which have absolutely no bearing / anything to do with what occurred.

UCMJ

Article 118 - Murder
Article 119 - Manslaughter
Article 128 - Assault

Sentencing guidelines

They should be paying the soldier 50,000 per person he killed we are at war with islam all is fair in love and war, do you think if Afghan soldiers where occupying america they would pay out or would the soldier be praised and seen as a hero. Think about the two nato troops just been killed are there family going to get a pay out from Afghanistan or will any form of payment to the families come out of some fund from the western civilized world

afgans didnt attack us on 911 saudis did asking afganies to pay restitution to 911 victims because saudis traained there well in that case new bern north carolina shoulod too because some of the saudi 911 terrorst took flight lessons there too.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Jameela

 

Respectfully please learn how things work before making claims. The US military is not subject to domestic law. They are subject to the UCMJ - Uniform Code of Military Justice. You are linking your argument to the laws of Virginia which have absolutely no bearing / anything to do with what occurred.

UCMJ

Article 118 - Murder
Article 119 - Manslaughter
Article 128 - Assault

Sentencing guidelines

I did say or the military equivalent, and I still think it will be a charge of manslaughter. And I still think he will not spend very long paying for the crime.

as I said before, we will see if I was correct.