Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by steve95988
Zimmerman has a strong civil case mounting against the Martin's

So tell me F. Lee, on what basis do you contend that he has a strong civil case?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Why can't it be true? Are you saying it is impossible that the moved around during the skirmish? That Zimmerman wriggled away from the sidewalk or that when he lifted TM off of him they moved was impossible?

Don't say impossible and definitely don't base your opinion on the opinion of someone else until you know where they are coming from.

edit on 20-4-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Ill base my opinion on the evidence, eye witnesses, and investigators. We all know what you are basing your opinions on. Are you saying the investigators are lying when they say that Zimmerman has changed his story several times and that by his own words his account could not be true. If you want to call the investigators liars go ahead an do it, but from what they know based on his multiple statements to police he is lying. I choose to trust their word.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

Doesn't matter.
He may have quit following him a few seconds later. He also says, if you listen, that he lost sight of the kid after stating the kid started to run.

I can follow someone with my eyes, I am not being entirely serious there just saying. If I was 50 feet from someone but moving to keep them in my line of sight and someone asked if I was following them I would probably say yes.

There is a difference between following and chasing. We don't know when he stopped "following," but I wouldn't strap the guy to the chair until I knew for sure.

You keep ignoring the location of Trayvons body. He was found 2/3 condos deep in the multiple unit complex, according to Zimmermans father's account of what his son told him he was jumped at the 'T' in the sidewalk as he was walking back to his car. You can't keep ignoring all the evidence.

Not to mention it was noted today that Zimmerman made video taped statements to the police that we have not seen. We are only basing our information on the 911 call alone, Zimmerman has said much much more than that that we have not seen. The investigators have seen these videos and based on his own words and evidence they believe he is lying.

Also, this is now the second set of investigators that have looked at the evidence and concluded he is lying. The original investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman that night and was over ruled, now a second team of investigators have concluded the same as the original investigators. Seems pretty consistent to me and every other logical person following this case.

Originally posted by steve95988
Trayvon had sh*tty parents. Who lets their little kid smoke pot and wander the streets in the dark / rain just to get a bag of Skittles? Model parenting in today's world I guess.

Did you know the family? I doubt that you do so why insult them in such a manner?

Provide a link that backs up your claim that his parents let him smoke pot?

He was not wandering the streets. He was walking home from the neighborhood convenience store during half time of the All-Star game. It was a reasonable hour for a young man of that age to be out.

So it was raining. I am not from Florida but have vacationed there. My experience with the weather there is that a thunderstorm or strong rain will pop up out of no where and 20 minutes later the sun is out again. 30 minutes later it is raining again.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Again. Another weak point. You don't know when he thought that. Someone can't change their opinion and knowledge about a situation? Did he say when I was on the phone with 9-11 I thought this. Maybe originally he thought it was someone nearer his age? Maybe he didn't make a clear confirmation of TM's age until the dispatcher asked for it. Just like how he determined his race on the phone.

Ridiculous points coming from the anti Zimmerman side all the way through.
Try being unbiased and thinking about things.

Trying to twist things again I see. Zimmerman said 'late teens' ..... now he says he thought he was a little bit younger than he was. And his knowledge only has become greater....he now knows for a fact he was 17, which means Zimmerman was correct in his assumption of Trayvons age.....that was the the only thing he assumed correctly.

It find it hysterical you will defend any thing, absolutely any thing that is against Zimmerman....even his own words. You don't support Zimmerman, you support the killing of unarmed teenagers, period.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

It doesn't REALLY matter because following is subjective here. Also, that is a great great great question. How did he meet up with him again after he lost sight of him? Well when he lost sight of him Trayvon was within a football field from his front door. So why when the kid ran did he not run all the way home?

He had a great head start, and was a football player so we can guess he was a fast runner We know that Zimmerman wasn't full on running because he stayed on the phone for a bit after saying the kid ran and he lost sight.

If you look at the map of the area what most likely happened is that Trayvon ran and rather than continue running to the safety of his home he hid somewhere between the two rows of houses. Zimmerman took an alternate path and wound up between the same rows of houses but from the other end. Then when he started to walk back to his car he began walking back between the houses rather than on the frontside where he came from. So walking back he likely unknowingly passed the spot where Trayvon was hiding and rather than staying hid the kid jumped out and confronted/attacked him.
I am not being biased here. I was on the same side of this as you (at the start of this same thread), but this is where the evidence has led me. The kid had a chance to get away, the fact that they even met again would likely be up to the kid as he escaped and was almost undoubtedly faster than Zimmerman (who was still on the phone).

Don't take my word for it dude. Look at the map and the proposed paths of both people. Ask yourself the same question. How did a football player with a head start who was out of sight, supposedly get chased down and caught by someone that, according to proposed routes, not only chased him down but passed up and came around in front of him. HOW did that kid with that head start and those skills not make it to his front door 70 yards away?

He almost had to have hid and jumped Zimmerman.

edit on 20-4-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

I see you are speculating on what you think happened, which when I did it you accused me of lying. Such a hypocrite you are.

If you look at the map of the area what most likely happened is that Trayvon ran and rather than continue running to the safety of his home he hid somewhere between the two rows of houses. Zimmerman took an alternate path and wound up between the same rows of houses but from the other end. Then when he started to walk back to his car he began walking back between the houses rather than on the frontside where he came from. So walking back he likely unknowingly passed the spot where Trayvon was hiding and rather than staying hid the kid jumped out and confronted/attacked him.

So now you are saying that Zimmerman's fathers account of what his son told him is a lie. Would that be correct. By your theory his father has to be lying about what George told him.........your speculation is just what you want to have happened.....nothing, nothing, nothing supports your fantasy.

George Zimmerman's Father Speaks Out


Here is a news source you can trust im sure.....Listen carefully at 3:56....helps if you pull up the map and know where Zimmerman truck was. Your theory could in no way have happened the way you fantasized about. You are now saying his own father is lying about what happened.

George Zimmerman’s Father Speaks Out on Hannity to Defend His Son’s Innocence

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

Yeah.. and from the sounds of it he was just observing from a distance and then on his trek back to his vehicle was jumped.

Then you look at the map, listen to the 911 tapes, and the witnesses other than "John" and realize you are TRYING to believe this.

Originally posted by Paschar0
For me, and many others, Zimmerman is looking more and more "not guilty" of second degree murder. Witnesses, Bloody pictures, hell a video of it happening the way Zimmerman says could come out and people like Pizzanerd would still be trying to convince you not to believe your lying eyes and ignore common sense. An absolute refusal to have an open mind just for a moment to consider the possibility that he is indeed "not guilty".

I can't say I'm convinced everything he did was in the right, but from where I'm sitting, I think I see this for what it is and for how it's being used to manipulate people.

Your little name play regarding my screenname was cute. Awwww.

Can you have an open mind and use your common sense for just a minute and think that maybe, just maybe, Zimmerman is guilty?

And you are absolutely right I am one sided. I absolutely side with the unarmed teenager who was killed by an armed vigilante. That you are correct about. I would never stick up for a man who called the police on someone, got out of his car to follow that person, and then kills that person. So bingo for you, you got one right.

I just love how I get attacked and ganged up on for bring up the real facts of the case and for actually keeping up with it. You seem to keep forgetting that Zimmerman has made multiple statements to the police that were video taped (it came out today in the bond hearing) that contradict the evidence. We have not seen those tapes yet, yet you insist that you know what he said and did. It will be mighty interesting when those videos come out and we call all see just how he changed his story several times, I wonder how you guys will defend him then. Im sure you will come up with a way.

Originally posted by Paschar0
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

You're just ridiculous and I stand by my earlier post in that you're completely one sided and can't even step outside yourself for one moment to consider other possibilities. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, your judgement simply can't be trusted or respected.

Most of your points are formed around assumptions and you're own personal feelings, which is great, but it's laughable how you think it's the only possibility. I've looked at the same information as everyone else and while I leave room for doubt on both sides, I happen to believe Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, then the question becomes why? You feel differently and that's your right, but no matter what you want to believe, you can't change the truth.

If new evidence appears tomorrow and shows Zimmerman was absolutely guilty, I could easily accept that I was wrong about my view. If it happens to show Trayvon's guilt, why do I just know you and people like you would still make excuses and continue to shift the focus to always suit your agenda.

My points are formed around facts and evidence. Some of my points have been formed around asssumptions, jsut as everyone else's has been. There are a few things we are all assuming about at this point, including you.

New information keeps coming out that continues to point to Zimmermans guilt yet you keep ignoring it. When any evidence comes out to point to Trayvon being in anyway the aggressor and deserving to die then I will gladly eat my crow.....guess you haven't read all my post, ive stated that before. No evidence has come out yet, that I have seen, that to me, justifies Zimmerman killing Trayvon. Based on the evidence I have seen so far it points to zimmerman trying to detain Trayvon until the police arrived. That is where the real evidence is pointing to at this point. You can keep saying it doesn't but it does.

Trying to attack my credibility is just a typical tactic when people can't really back up their weak arguments.

Originally posted by Paschar0

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

zimmermans injuries match that version of events. Back of head etc..

I disagree. Zimmerman 'injuries' match the version that he was in a scuffle. His 'injuries', that we have seen, are in no way consistent with being 'beat' for over a minute.....as Zimmerman own father claims.

A scratch on the back of the head and a bloody nose is not consistent with being BEAT. It is consistent with a scuffle on the ground, maybe a elbow to the nose, as Trayvon was trying to get away...screaming for help being held at gunpoint.

What is consistent with the version of events is the bullet hole in Trayvon caused by Zimmerman following him for absolutely no reason.

Wrong again.

I've been in more than few fist fights in my life and I can tell you after being sucker punched by someone kneeling on the ground with a full force right hook to my jaw and fighting for several minutes afterwards that visibly I looked perfectly fine the rest of the day. The NEXT day it hurt like hell and swelled some, but still didn't show all that much.

Other times I've been hit in the eye not very hard at all but it landed just right and blackened it within an hour.

Strikes to the nose often don't show much at all aside from a little blood if that, it depends on how the blow lands.

Ask anyone that has some experience and they'll tell you the same thing.

You wouldn't know this because you are basing yet another opinion on incorrect assumptions and apparently no real life experience in pretty much any of this, either that or you've somehow managed to completely avoid learning anything from it.

edit on 8-4-2012 by Paschar0 because: (no reason given)

Your personal history of violence has no bearing on this case. I notice you failed to mention where you pulled out your gun and shot an unarmed teenager in your scuffles. But its irrelevant.

Just because he was injured does not prove he was justified in killing Trayvon and any injuries he may have sustained do not prove Trayvon started the altercation.

that is what this whole case is about....

reply to post by 27jd


No, just that your life was actually in danger and not,
you know
you are just a pussy.

"I did not know if he was armed."
Guess you should have waited for the cops then.

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

Yeah.. and from the sounds of it he was just observing from a distance and then on his trek back to his vehicle was jumped.

Then you look at the map, listen to the 911 tapes, and the witnesses other than "John" and realize you are TRYING to believe this.

but when you point that out you are closed minded.

So it seems depravity in Florida for 2nd degree murder - - - can be simply "Ill Will"

Zimmerman profiling Trayvon in the 911 call could be enough to qualify for depravity.

duplicate

QUESTION: so - the bloody picture of Zimmerman is not an official police photo - - - but was taken by a neighbor - - - with no proof it is actually Zimmerman - - - or proof of the date it was taken?

Is that correct?

When did he bring the photo forward? Has he been identified? Is this "John" again?

EDIT: supposedly it was taken by a phone and has a date.

Originally posted by Annee
So it seems depravity in Florida for 2nd degree murder - - - can be simply "Ill Will"

Zimmerman profiling Trayvon in the 911 call could be enough to qualify for depravity.

You need to go back and listen to the non edited version of the 911 tape he didnt profile him at all. He simply answered the dispatchers questions. As for the location of the fight we havnt a clue.The only indication i saw was them taking pictures on the sidewalk where they meet. Everyone's guessing where the fight occurred how it started etc the reality is all we can go off of is the eye witness testimony which currently supports zimmermans story. Unless there is another witness but we shall see soon enough.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by Annee
So it seems depravity in Florida for 2nd degree murder - - - can be simply "Ill Will"

Zimmerman profiling Trayvon in the 911 call could be enough to qualify for depravity.

You need to go back and listen to the non edited version of the 911 tape he didnt profile him at all. He simply answered the dispatchers questions.

I'm only repeating a discussion between lawyers on a talk show.

I heard the tapes on a radio talk show before this even made it to ATS. Guess it depends on how you choose to hear what someone says.

Originally posted by Annee
QUESTION: so - the bloody picture of Zimmerman is not an official police photo - - - but was taken by a neighbor - - - with no proof it is actually Zimmerman - - - or proof of the date it was taken?

Is that correct?

When did he bring the photo forward? Has he been identified? Is this "John" again?

EDIT: supposedly it was taken by a phone and has a date.

edit on 21-4-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

I wanna know who he is talking to on the phone in that picture. This pic was taken 3 mins, supposedly, after the shot was fired, cops arrived 2 mins before this pic was taken. Zimmerman wasn't in handcuffs and there are people on the scene taking pictures and Zimmerman is talking on the phone.

And I also want to know who took the pic, I think it was 'John' as well. I wonder what other pics 'john' took pics of at the scene? Any of his nose? Any of Trayvon's body? I just wonder if this is the only pic that was taken by witnesses on the scene that night. And the timing of it coming out the morning of the bond hearing is odd as well.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

I wanna know who he is talking to on the phone in that picture. This pic was taken 3 mins, supposedly, after the shot was fired, cops arrived 2 mins before this pic was taken. Zimmerman wasn't in handcuffs and there are people on the scene taking pictures and Zimmerman is talking on the phone.

And I also want to know who took the pic, I think it was 'John' as well. I wonder what other pics 'john' took pics of at the scene? Any of his nose? Any of Trayvon's body? I just wonder if this is the only pic that was taken by witnesses on the scene that night. And the timing of it coming out the morning of the bond hearing is odd as well.

Its weird.

And why are there no official photos of his injury? It doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by steve95988

 

the only ruthless thug was zimmerman, driving around town with a loaded gun and one in the chamber. profiling innocent people. thats right tray was innocent he was not committing a crime, zim jumped the gun, literally. he should be punished if only to deter other idiots who want to play super hero. if you want to apprehend criminals become a cop.

Im sorry can you please support these accusations with sourced facts.

Punished for what? If he did not violate any laws, what is to punish?

Or is it now your position that since the evidence apparently is shifting away from Zimmerman being in the wrong you are just going to ignore that evidence and continue the blame game?

The goal of any investigation is to find the truth, regardless of whether or not we like what that truth may be.

Ignoring the laws in an effort to punish Zimmerman simply because you dont agree makes you no different than how you portray Zimmerman himself.

Should we arbitrarily punish you, even though right now you broke no laws, to serve as a warning to others than we are a nation of laws?

The absurdity of some people is astounding... You guys demand evidence and when its provided, you do everything you can to dismiss it simply because you think your opinion should be and overriding factor.

If you demand that people be held to the law, then you should damn well expect to be held to it as well.