Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Maybe try watching the whole thing before you start high fiving yourself in the face?

And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass. I believe he was dead at that point

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

zimmermans injuries match that version of events. Back of head etc..

I disagree. Zimmerman 'injuries' match the version that he was in a scuffle. His 'injuries', that we have seen, are in no way consistent with being 'beat' for over a minute.....as Zimmerman own father claims.

A scratch on the back of the head and a bloody nose is not consistent with being BEAT. It is consistent with a scuffle on the ground, maybe a elbow to the nose, as Trayvon was trying to get away...screaming for help being held at gunpoint.

What is consistent with the version of events is the bullet hole in Trayvon caused by Zimmerman following him for absolutely no reason.

Wrong again.

I've been in more than few fist fights in my life and I can tell you after being sucker punched by someone kneeling on the ground with a full force right hook to my jaw and fighting for several minutes afterwards that visibly I looked perfectly fine the rest of the day. The NEXT day it hurt like hell and swelled some, but still didn't show all that much.

Other times I've been hit in the eye not very hard at all but it landed just right and blackened it within an hour.

Strikes to the nose often don't show much at all aside from a little blood if that, it depends on how the blow lands.

Ask anyone that has some experience and they'll tell you the same thing.

You wouldn't know this because you are basing yet another opinion on incorrect assumptions and apparently no real life experience in pretty much any of this, either that or you've somehow managed to completely avoid learning anything from it.

Originally posted by SashaHighkick
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Maybe try watching the whole thing before you start high fiving yourself in the face?

And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass. I believe he was dead at that point

edit on 8-4-2012 by SashaHighkick because: (no reason given)

Here is a link that has all of the 911 calls. 'John' is the first one under Zimmermans 911 call.

John says 'their WRESTLING right in the back of my porch.....'.......

He also reports that the guy is yelling help and he isn't going outside. Why didn't he say 'I was just outside and saw someone getting BEAT and yelling for help and I told him I was calling 911'......he never indicates he was outside at any point.....and he never indciates he saw a beating....until asked later on...he can't have it both ways and neither can you.

That 911 call is the best description of what he saw...he reported 'wrestling' not a 'beating'.....I really don't care that he changed the wording the next day....and conviently now know even the color of Zimmerman jacket and for sure it was zimmerman yelling for help...even though by all accounts it was nothing but dark.....

9-1-1 call reports yelling 'Help'

Originally posted by SashaHighkick
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Maybe try watching the whole thing before you start high fiving yourself in the face?

And then when I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass. I believe he was dead at that point

edit on 8-4-2012 by SashaHighkick because: (no reason given)

Oh, im not high fiving myself. Ive watched all the videos, read all the articles, etc.

Try going back and reading my post....I have questioned your witness 'John' since the get go. He claims to know it was 'the man in the red jacket' yelling for help....how could he know that unless he previously knew Zimmerman .... thats just one issue i have with 'John'.......

Seems 'John' doesn't know what he saw either...was it wrestling or a beating? They are much different. And wrestling matches up with what other eye witnesses say, such as the one I linked to you that you discount.

Wrestling is not beating....and I smell something fishy about 'John'.....High Five!!!!!

Originally posted by Paschar0

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

zimmermans injuries match that version of events. Back of head etc..

I disagree. Zimmerman 'injuries' match the version that he was in a scuffle. His 'injuries', that we have seen, are in no way consistent with being 'beat' for over a minute.....as Zimmerman own father claims.

A scratch on the back of the head and a bloody nose is not consistent with being BEAT. It is consistent with a scuffle on the ground, maybe a elbow to the nose, as Trayvon was trying to get away...screaming for help being held at gunpoint.

What is consistent with the version of events is the bullet hole in Trayvon caused by Zimmerman following him for absolutely no reason.

Wrong again.

I've been in more than few fist fights in my life and I can tell you after being sucker punched by someone kneeling on the ground with a full force right hook to my jaw and fighting for several minutes afterwards that visibly I looked perfectly fine the rest of the day. The NEXT day it hurt like hell and swelled some, but still didn't show all that much.

Other times I've been hit in the eye not very hard at all but it landed just right and blackened it within an hour.

Strikes to the nose often don't show much at all aside from a little blood if that, it depends on how the blow lands.

Ask anyone that has some experience and they'll tell you the same thing.

You wouldn't know this because you are basing yet another opinion on incorrect assumptions and apparently no real life experience in pretty much any of this, either that or you've somehow managed to completely avoid learning anything from it.

edit on 8-4-2012 by Paschar0 because: (no reason given)

Thank you expert doctor on you analysis of the evidence on how the nose bleeds when hit, based on nothing but your own nose being hit previously. Your testimony has been heard and dismissed.

Has this been mentioned yet ?

Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test Immediately After Shooting

Excerpted from The Los Angeles Times: George Zimmerman reportedly has an experienced criminal defense attorney in his corner now.

The Neighborhood Watch volunteer who says he shot an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, in self-defense Feb. 26 had been represented by a solo practitioner, Craig Sonner, who had never defended anyone accused of homicide.

But late Tuesday, veteran criminal defense attorney Craig Uhrig told Orlando television station WOFL that he was joining the case. Uhrig often works with Sonner, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Zimmerman told police he had lost track of Martin, who reappeared and confronted him. He says Martin punched him in the nose and slammed his head into the pavement.

[color=cyan]Uhrig told WOFL he is sure Zimmerman is telling the truth, in part because Zimmerman passed a voice-stress test administered by Sanford police.

(Reuters) — George Zimmerman’s defense team is growing, suggesting that he’s planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

[color=cyan]Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin’s death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual’s voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

George Zimmerman’s voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Maybe you should go get some fresh air, or some sleep or something.... The wiki you linked to says the same exact thing as he says in the video

Witness accounts
An eyewitness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated to Fox News Orlando that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911. He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, Martin was lying in the grass, and the witness believed Martin to be dead.[88][89] Martin’s mother said she recognized the shouting for help was from her son. Zimmerman says he was the one calling out.[90]

reply to post by xuenchen


Wowie, that's a new piece of evidence to me, thanks for bringing it up.

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Again, I responded to your response to another poster.

And again your response was nonsense and off topic.
You have not corrected me on jack. All you have done is attempt to get me to fall in line with the BS you have swallowed up whole which all says that black people are tricked into killing their babies by white people. I give black people more credit than that.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO TALK ABOUT SANGER IN THIS THREAD.
I said I would join you in a thread on that topic.

All you have done is call me racist. I don't even have an opinion on either of the two men, and certainly not regarding their skin color or who was in what neighborhood. I have not swallowed anything, nor do I think the way you have projected on me. I wished you well twice under your attacks and still you have the same attitude. That tells me way more about your character than the 200 or so pages of you screaming and yelling at everyone because you have an opinion that will not be changed no matter what new information comes to light.
My opinion here is that the MSM doctored media to bring about a desired outcome instead of being truthful. That says a lot about our society now and the people who defend that style of news reporting because it gave them a perceived edge on a social issue.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Again, I responded to your response to another poster.

And again your response was nonsense and off topic.
You have not corrected me on jack. All you have done is attempt to get me to fall in line with the BS you have swallowed up whole which all says that black people are tricked into killing their babies by white people. I give black people more credit than that.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO TALK ABOUT SANGER IN THIS THREAD.
I said I would join you in a thread on that topic.

All you have done is call me racist. I don't even have an opinion on either of the two men, and certainly not regarding their skin color or who was in what neighborhood. I have not swallowed anything, nor do I think the way you have projected on me. I wished you well twice under your attacks and still you have the same attitude. That tells me way more about your character than the 200 or so pages of you screaming and yelling at everyone because you have an opinion that will not be changed no matter what new information comes to light.
My opinion here is that the MSM doctored media to bring about a desired outcome instead of being truthful. That says a lot about our society now and the people who defend that style of news reporting because it gave them a perceived edge on a social issue.

You are derailing this thread

reply to post by xuenchen


So we are to trust this test and disregard the two performed by the voice analysis experts who said it wasnt Zimmerman screaming.

Cant have it both ways zim supporters

reply to post by spacedog1973


Whatever! 208 plus pages of extreme banter and everyone's truly expert wisdom and expertise and I get called names when I have no personal bias either way.
In my experience people often project onto others exactly that which they themselves do.
Like I said, my opinion on this matter is that the MSM has been exploiting this case as much as they can and doctoring their tapes to make some sort of point which is meant to benefit somebody. This is a conspiracy forum. At least I'm bothering to talk about actual conspiracy theories. One is Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood/Rockefeller de-population which is indirectly related to such matters as this, and two is the MSM redirection into something being used to manipulate the masses in a game for the purpose of Marxist warfare.
I've been watching this game go on for 3 years.

Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by xuenchen

 

So we are to trust this test and disregard the two performed by the voice analysis experts who said it wasnt Zimmerman screaming.

Cant have it both ways zim supporters

edit on 8-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)

The screaming was from "recordings" I think. "Physical" readings may not be possible.

The voice-stress test is a direct input into a machine and somehow measures some kind of physical reaction.

There might be a difference.

repeat:

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual’s voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

reply to post by xuenchen


Interesting stuff. Sounds like advanced voice recognition software. Also seems pretty pricey.

Originally posted by SashaHighkick
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Maybe you should go get some fresh air, or some sleep or something.... The wiki you linked to says the same exact thing as he says in the video

Witness accounts
An eyewitness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated to Fox News Orlando that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911. He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, Martin was lying in the grass, and the witness believed Martin to be dead.[88][89] Martin’s mother said she recognized the shouting for help was from her son. Zimmerman says he was the one calling out.[90]

Guess you didn;t listen to the call. I didn't link the wiki page to back up anything I said, I link the wiki page for the audio only.

Listen to, and then shut up because you don't know what you are talking about.

Im done responding to you, you came in this conversation 200+ pages in spewing falsehoods about the victim based on your own bias not on fact. I can back up everything I have said, you like to play little games and try and derail the conversation. Until you have something constructive to add to this post, ill continue ignoring you.

reply to post by xuenchen


I'm willing to accept that piece of evidence in his defense as long as it's noted that the title to that article is misleading.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individuals voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress.

The voice analysis of the screams is more convincing to me and the technology is more widely accepted in a court. Lie detector tests aren't because they are not reliable enough. This would seem even less reliable than a polygraph, noted by the "they are thought to indicate stress" comment.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Has this been mentioned yet ?

Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test Immediately After Shooting

Excerpted from The Los Angeles Times: George Zimmerman reportedly has an experienced criminal defense attorney in his corner now.

The Neighborhood Watch volunteer who says he shot an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, in self-defense Feb. 26 had been represented by a solo practitioner, Craig Sonner, who had never defended anyone accused of homicide.

But late Tuesday, veteran criminal defense attorney Craig Uhrig told Orlando television station WOFL that he was joining the case. Uhrig often works with Sonner, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Zimmerman told police he had lost track of Martin, who reappeared and confronted him. He says Martin punched him in the nose and slammed his head into the pavement.

[color=cyan]Uhrig told WOFL he is sure Zimmerman is telling the truth, in part because Zimmerman passed a voice-stress test administered by Sanford police.

(Reuters) — George Zimmerman’s defense team is growing, suggesting that he’s planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

[color=cyan]Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin’s death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual’s voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

George Zimmerman’s voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.

I wouldn't call that very solid evidence to release a killer.....

This is in reference to drug use but it is the same technology.....

Using these percentages to determine the overall accuracy rates of the two VSA programs, we found that their ability to accurately detect deception about recent drug use was about 50 percent.

Voice Stress Analysis: Only 15 Percent of Lies About Drug Use Detected in Field Test

reply to post by pizzanazi75


All you have been doing is hurling insults at me for posting an opinion. So good, stop talking to me.

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I'm willing to accept that piece of evidence in his defense as long as it's noted that the title to that article is misleading.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individuals voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress.

The voice analysis of the screams is more convincing to me and the technology is more widely accepted in a court. Lie detector tests aren't because they are not reliable enough. This would seem even less reliable than a polygraph, noted by the "they are thought to indicate stress" comment.

So Noted.

I will now yield to the experts.

This is really still going on?

.... There's still a debate about this?

It's pretty simple, really. This is a media-doctored case to drum up viewership.

The case, itself is one massive cluster where forensic test results are conflicting and evidence scarce.

This has all been a media vessel for people's biases and desire to judge each other. The more we sit here and call each other racists and form mobs in the street demanding we (basically) publicly execute a man... the more we're flushing our own Constitution down the toilet while handing our minds over to the media.

... And I always wonder why my dad would tell me: "Get out while you still can" when I would joke about moving to another country....