No Matter What Your Politics, Why Is Anyone Living In Poverty?

it sounds like we would all be like the guy on the corner with a sign. will work for food. whos going to work for all of this free homes,shareing food ,property they have to keep up, whos going to mow all the free land.shared light bills.so it sound like a lot more people would have to get off there lazy butts and pitch in yea ok what are you smokeing?what comp do i get for all the hard years of labor i have had to get what i have now while some set at home poor and eat for free ,free rent, on public aid..are they going to feed me if i share? i allready pay for there kids schooling and medical did i miss the topic if so sorry

reply to post by madenusa


Did you see the fishing in an earthship home video at the start of this thread? It's energy sufficient, offgrid and requires no heating or cooling.

Many families and friends get together to erect cob homes That is usually how it is done.

I'm pretty sure if they planted grasses they would be the enviro kind, and its OK to have grass, many with ashtma require well watered properties and grasses to keep the dust down. Some of us live in areas with ample water, but then there are also water solutions and recycling water as needed, but alas, they want to use the most expensive energy and really discourage off grid lifestyles.

I like grass. My son mows the lawn. There are lots of solutions to electricity and even using salt water as fuel, and hydrogen or browns gas, or biofuels, the most important part is clean emissions and not being fleeced by any middleman or corporation. It shouldn't be like that.

As to the free homes. It is a crime for anyone to think there shouldn't be and force others to stand under their system of slavery. Once you wrap your head around the fact that we all co-own this planet and that slavery is right up there with murder/rape and extreme robbery, in the basic common laws of thou shalt not harm, you start to wonder why you didn't get this before and why you're supporting this system and pull away your support.

Part of the offgrid ideas, (while we're in the workshops experimenting with free energy) is to use better batteries.

Now I was watching a video on someone who is creating his rechargeable battery pack for his solar, by draining the acid and lead, and neutralizing it with distilled water and baking soda, and rinsing well and filling with ALUM solution.

it was very dangerous and really bad fumes. So I'm not listing it, though I did save it for just in case. However, one thing he found by accident, testing along the way, was that when the baking soda was neutralizing the acid, he got a huge charge off the battery. He wasn't sure what caused that, the baking soda? Or, the interaction between the two?

But speaking of batteries, I would be working through the most enviro solutions going.


Batteries made of salt, water last 10X longer


Monster Salt Water Battery

This guy got some volts and thought bigger was better. Well, hooking up/grouping together smaller makes more volts BUT, he was also told putting some vinegar in the bucket would really amp up the electrical output.


Water as Fuel, Stuffed with Salty Possibilities Part 3

I just remembered, tons of solutions already posted on this other thread of mine for off grid living.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
How To Make Hydrogen Fuel At Home!

The fact is "poverty" is a moving target and a relative term. Some bureaucrat makes up the "poverty line" based on income, and we're stuck with it. It's usually based on gross income and familiy size and qualifies you (or not) for public assistance.

So you can have someone living in subsidized public housing getting free foodstamps on Medicaid (free health care) and enjoying a large screen TV being called poverty stricken when, in fact, their purchasing power is more than most any eastern European family and a lot of western European ones. Give that kind of lifestyle to someone from Rwanda and they'd think they had died and gone to heaven.

There's also a lifestyle issue. Here are two families with an IDENTICAL modest income.

One works as an engineering technician at a Boeing subsidiary, lives in a modest single story tract house, has two kids, drives a ten year old car, and is well on toward paying off his house and saving for his kids' education as they are doing great in school and the little goirl appears to be a math whiz. He's working slowly toward an engineering degree at night classes. If he makes it, his income will go up drastically. His company helps him with his tuition.

The second works at an auto body shop and has a heavily mortgaged house with a third garage, a boat, a motorcycle, and a $60,000 truck with fat tires and a six inch lift. He spends a lot of money on alcohol. He has five kids and a fat wife and the kids don't have shoes and do poorly in school. He constantly complains about not having enough money and he thinks he's underpaid for what he does. His boss is looking for an excuse to fire him.

Sometimes it is about choices.

Cob Houses - Live Debt Free with Sustainable Development

Oregon. I was a little shocked the young man at the start looks a bit like James Holmes, though I guess he's not.

But I don't really think eco farms should be putting strangers together. Trust is a big issue, families and friends do come to mind if anyone decides to share a farm, or subdivide land, because, I just don't trust people enough, actually sorry. I can see occult groups and weird things came to mind. I think most people prefer privacy, and some people could have privacy on a more communal farm, because farms take many hands.

I'm not into joining communes myself, just to point out that is not the solution, we're on a huge planet, every single person could have their own farm and still spare most of the planet for nature There is no reason to follow any plan for putting people into cubicles.

Recycling is a good source for building supplies. And we live in an incredibly wasteful society, they just condemn and destroy buildings when the emphasis should be on saving natural resources and our forrests.


Low-income Houses from Recycled goods (1 of 3)

And these ones range from 9 000 - 50 000 and are built on the west coast of BC, often using salvaged woods.

Cob is really one way that most people can get off the treadmill. Now morgages don't even like to give out loans at 50 000, and that is the kind of changes people need to do something about. The poor rent for 1400, but could be paying off their own morgage for under 1000 a month with land.

We're selling our children off to slavery unless we do pay attention.

And the whole world is starving to death.

Maybe we need to take a look at what happens when people are disenfranchised from their access to land and resources and put under the corporations. Because this has occurred in the last century for most of the third world at the directions and actions taken by our World Banks and lending process, that props ups gangsters to rule, and the murder of whole villages, by Shell and various corporations world wide, (people have boycotted shell, but not enough did it to make a difference, a number of years ago) and with their farms, in cocoa and coffee plantations.

It hasn't a pretty thing to see. BUT, we're also falling under this machine, they want to take eveyrone's rights away, and decide who lives, who dies, who's a useless eater.

When we can live in our own little palaces, and grow all the feed we need, and leave clean footprints on this planet.


Cob Houses - Live Debt Free with Sustainable Development

Where I come from, I was raised 'you dont work, you don't eat'

I think that should always hold true. I know a lot of people right now who 'cant find work', yet they sit around all day popping pain pills never looking.

Granted, some people can't find a job right now, but it's only a period of life you go through; too many people are turning it perminent and living off government hand outs.

Put it simply, some people deserve to live in poverty. I can name a few who are 30-40 years old and never had a job.

reply to post by Unity_99


I wanted ti reply to your original post with comments....because of what I have been through in the last few years. All I can tell you is that some people really do prefer to live this way.

In the last few days, I have seen people who had to move, one went to a homeless shelter, and the other one decided to move everything out of her apartment and is now living next to the swimming pool. I gave her a list of resources for places to go and get a meal. etc., and she looked at me like I was nuts.

I do believe people who need and want help should be able to get it. I will never again, after the way this woman took me trying to give her help, offer the information to somebody unless they are asking for it.

I have a printed copy of all resources available to homeless people in the area where I live, and honestly, some people could care less, and like living the way they do.

reply to post by xstealth


I was raised in a very mixed family that way. There were two groups, the controllers, and the hippies.

The controllers believed that they could dictate to others what to do. The idea that everyone had natural rights to land and that someone living in their own home, built by their own family and friends, growing their own food, choosing to work the hours they wish to, to contribute to the world as they wished to from their own talents, and to spend as much time as they wanted with their children, really upset the controllers. They just couldn't sleep at night at the very thought that a huge number of people not only don't think like them, but refuse to every go along with criminal control, for they simply will not stand under anyones pitiful slave ideas. Its just floors the hell out of them

In my family, I have a few dinosaurs, that think, they're all that, and they don't respect work of equal value, in fact they're quite elitist.

They feel smugly satisfied at walking past the homeless and blaming them. YOU WERE BORN WITH MENTAL ILLNESS< SO SUFFER YOU USELESS LESSER BEING YOU. Well they won't admit to thinking like that, but in reality, in practical terms, that is exactly what it means to support this world.

I work for myself only, won't work for their corporations and think all people no matter what their situaiton have their own right to choose.

The concept of people being happy, and doing their own things their way, makes me happy.

In fact, again, its illegal, its against common law to force employment for your right to homes and gardens and life. That is the essence of slavery. Slavery is illegal.

People can choose for themselves if they want to work as a mechanic or teacher, or if they prefer to grow food and teach their children.

Thankfully had a wonderful intelligent Norwegian grandfather with nearly 150 IQ, and grandmother, and a wonderful mother who believes in only 100% equality.

Originally posted by Unity_99

Yeah and people can also choose to sit around on their butts all day collect wellfare checks and complain that they are broke. People can also sit around all day and pop pills.

Do they deserve to have everything I have? We can't help those who don't help themselves.

reply to post by xstealth


I don't believe most on welfare can afford to pop pills. I think the ones on the treadmill pop them most. Here in Canada, there were statistics about welfare, and most able bodied get off the system somewhat quickly, seems like many are looking for work, the able bodied ones, in my country, statistically.

And most people who are working cannot afford to pay 1400 dollar rents for houses and over 2000 dollars a month morgages.

This system is slavery and anyone supporting slavery is going to be responsible for their opinions if they ever harmed anyone with them.

By the way, a certain percentage on assistance actually have their rents reduced, to 1/3 their income with utilities, including elderly and disabled. Not everyone gets on that program but I know several who are on that program.

They're not suffering quite as much as the working poor and middle class.

Also the heart of your argument is that you think you can force people to be slaves and follow the Dog Eat Dog social darwinism that you follow.

Sorry my dear, but you don't own anyone on this planet, and nor is there any tiny group that can sell off all the land and resources, for if we don't all have access its a CRIME and its time to take this world back from Darth Vader and give big fat raspberries to those who think they're all that. I was born knowing that. I consider social darwinsim to be a crime as big as mass murder.

Its a lesser being that wants to control others to look good themselves. A tiny tot in a messy diaper. That is an immaturity of soul. It takes equality wed to freedom in other words, no fasicsm either, not communism, no ISMS, no need for intense lessons of inequality to yearn for eutopias of abuandance and to no longer have the ability to harm others, neglect them or walk them in their need, to graduate from this planet to Higher Realms.

The title question should be more complete. There are two questions, neither is clear.

One: Why is there poverty? The answer to this is fiat currency and compound interest. When a loan is taken out, the principal is printed on the spot, the corresponding compound interest - in mortgages it is three times the principal, is NOT printed. So, in order for the interest to be paid back, it must be taken from someone else who also needs their money to pay off their debt interest. So, for country xxx to borrow money for railroads, it must take money from country yyy to pay back the interest in the railroad. If it can't get the money via some legit transactional method, it will have to steal it. Since there is not enough printed money to pay back all the interest on all the loans, the powerful take from the weak, leaving he weak with nothing. Oddly enough, the weak then need money, so the borrow, at higher rates, with less collateral, and so it goes. If a country is chosen to be the top country, it takes 100 years, 100, for it to move up the ladder, if it is not chosen - it stays at the bottom no matter what.

Two: why do we all accept the idea that some must be poor?

The answer to this needs to be asked another way. We all know why THOSE people are poor and deserve to be poor. The problem is those with: Mortgage, two car payments, CC payments and Tax obligations are poor, the are worse then poor, the owe more then they are. The homeless man is NOT as poor as the classic two child family, and here lies the problem. The most poor people, those in debt, think they are rich because they have items the are paying for via compound interest prior to actually owning the stuff, and do not see themselves as poor, as such, the system is fine to them. Those without debt are less poor then those without anything and no debt. So the better question is, why do people who are poor, fail to see themselves as poor?

So, the answer to the two questions: Ignorance. People miseducated on purpose, people lacking in real self reflections skills = happiness to be poor.

Keep in mind, all "dollars" in a fiat currency world are debt - period. Every single federal reserve "note" is a IOU. So even if you have money, you are in debt, in fact, in the great irony of all, the more "money" you have in federal reserve notes, the more in debt you are.

I don't believe in any form of slavery and don't see anyone as deserving of poverty. I see those who are more peaceful, non aggressive and wish to enjoy their lives with their children, and contribute what they can out of their talents when they are up to it, and those who are handicapped or disabled and have FULL EQUALITY and rights as anyone else, and should be living on their own land, free of charge, with community, friends and family helping them with their homes and services. Ie, repairs, checkups etc. This works best if they have a good support system, can have a cottage on their relatives land, but there are some who don't. Those people are not weak, but wise and see through the crapola of this world.

Then I see the upwardly mobile workaholic, and the more successful the more corrupt and ruthless and negative in orientation.

They are the most weak and immature.

Now the OP was quite specific it should ask this. what ISM, OPINION prevents the few (because lets be realistic, that guy with the double mortgage working 2 jobs, is a minority of earth's population, most are living in abject poverty, being exploited beyond belief).

So what ISM is it, what is in some, that make them upset at the thought that everyone should be living with dignity on their own land, and growing their own food, self sufficient, this is the ABCs of life and would occur before any other thing is ever done any contributions or part time work any group projects, any advancements in technology.

Because those things are also important to civilization, especially if its not run by pyramid structures, but more ethical, clean energy, small businesses and the true essence of creativity and free enterprise.

But back to the ABC's. What is it that would cause someone from knowing that all people have rights to land and resources, and wishing all,







Lived like this:



or



or


Fishing in the Phoenix Earthship

There is a huge division between those who get this and those who don't. The difference is between living in a hellzone of horrendous abuses and exploitation of people and blaming victims, or living in a eutopia.

This shows all ages working the cob, the old way of building homes, inexpensive, and easy on the earth's resources, and put up the way homes should be, family and friends.

Our very homes are laden with karma, and our economies are major harm to nature and most of the world's population.

Maybe we're earning consequences if we don't get it together.

Maybe some of us need to keep these things collected so that out of chaos, should anything go down, a better order, one of freedom and cooperation and compassion, wedded, the right way of doing things. OH, and this is a twist on their out of order logo, because they like systems of scaristy. I suggest we create our own better ones and never obey them.

Collecting some heritage seeds might be a good idea too.

But I like the spirit of this video.

Originally posted by xstealth

Originally posted by Unity_99

Yeah and people can also choose to sit around on their butts all day collect wellfare checks and complain that they are broke. People can also sit around all day and pop pills.

Do they deserve to have everything I have? We can't help those who don't help themselves.

There are many people who work all day long and are still very poor - Thats a fact Jack

Now lets look at the idea of cost, to society, of crime, inner city slums, ghetto's, homelessness alone (we had studies conducted by our government in BC, and it costs an enormous amount of money to support homelessness. At the cost of one homeless person on the system, for policing, medical, etc, they could have put up the whole eco fam and gardens for a dozen or so if the land was found for 100 000. It cost hundreds of thousands per person.)

Imagine if children were raised with their own half acre or acre of land and ample food, still with services. I imagine they would cost the health care system less, being taken from slums, and danger zones, eh? Not more.
There would still be services, we are modern and progressed after all.

But I wonder how many thousands or perhaps, hundreds of thousands, per person, less it would cost the states/provinces and countries if all lived with basic dignity?

It always costs way more to the tax payer to use ruthless mean hearted methods over basic equal and kind ones.

They're not doing it to save money, but to keep people disempowered, feeling unentitled and traumatized, and to reward the wicked. They are serving the dark side.

Originally posted by pisssss

Originally posted by xstealth

Originally posted by Unity_99

Yeah and people can also choose to sit around on their butts all day collect wellfare checks and complain that they are broke. People can also sit around all day and pop pills.

Do they deserve to have everything I have? We can't help those who don't help themselves.

There are many people who work all day long and are still very poor - Thats a fact Jack

Yes it is. One of my friends left Hungary before the wall fell, so they escaped communism. And she moved around in Canada. She was good at languages so got more work than her husband and in fact they broke up, as it had been a abusive relationship. She worked for Kentucky Fried Chicken. They kept her just under the hours for union or and hence she made just under the amount social services would give a mother with 3 kids.

She was too proud for assistance, but in the end was forced on because the kids had no food. THey were eating flour and sugar, her check just covered townhouse and utliies and a bit for food, she roller skated to work. I was giving them peanut butter sandwhiches. And they had to rely on her sneaking home the food that KFC throws away.

And we have rules, those kids would have been seized by the ministry if she hadn't accepted the little bit more she qualified for.

They were often in hotel rooms, couldnt have 3 in an apartment and couldnt afford a house.

She said to me, the only difference between the Communistic country and Canada, (which was under Mulroney and the Conservatives at the time) was that she had a VCR, and a few lineups missed. But she was just as poor, and worked just as hard, for nothing.

She doesnt support conservative governments. Social democracies like Norway are further away from living under Communism than our ruthless governments.

I got it from the horses mouth, communism is a scarsity system like the conservative platforms, and only benefits the few.

Our Liberal party is not like the US mind you, and our social democratic party is more like Norway.

So she ended up liberal, a lesson well learnt.

Im NDP.