"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

reply to post by majesticgent

it's not OK for someone to also feels threatened and being followed (playing devil's advocate here) to jump the person following them

Exactly, it is not OK to jump someone because you think they are following you. That is absurd. Maybe the guy following you is only going in the same direction.

If you are really that paranoid, just turn around and say "Hey, what's up?" If anything, it tells the guy you know he is there, and you have the balls to confront him.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Had Zimmerman stayed put and left this to the real police, none of this would have happened.

True.
Sad part is that high crime rates and apparent inability of the 'real police' to deal with those crimes are what created gated communities and neighborhood watches. Most of the time, cops are investigating crimes after the fact, and 75% of those crimes remain unsolved.

We have very little hard evidence to base any conclusions on in this case. There are a lot of contradictory reports out there, I honestly don't know what to believe.

One set of reports would lead us to believe that Zimmerman did stop following Martin and Martin returned to confront him.

Further professional investigation and a jury is what will be required to bring this to a just end.

Originally posted by rufusdrak


Nice strawman argument in your first paragraph, no one said Zimmerman was interrogating nor detaining him. You attempted to disprove me by proving that detaining is not legal, yet I never even so much as hinted that Zimmerman detained Martin so thus your straw man article gets thrown out the window to the garbage where it belongs. Nice try though.

As for the guideline, I'm assuming you're talking about private/gated communities, I can take the picture of the sign of the private community I happen to live in, which clearly states the guidelines, which clearly states you are not allowed to be in or loiter without proper ID showing you live there, how's that for proof.

Zimmerman had no way of knowing anything, only from what he can observe, and he clearly observed Martin acting suspicious, dressed suspiciously (in a hoodie concealing his face).
And as for that argument that has no bearing as you said on Zimmerman's decision but it does have bearing in court of law where it can obviously be used against Martin as an illustration of his character, the fact that he was a known drug dealer. As for your question of proof, it was posted numerous times in the thread, go back and search for it, there is a photo of Martin's facebook showing someone asking them to sell them some drugs using code slang for the drug.
2. The suspension thing once again is not relevant for Zimmerman but is relevant in the court of law because as I said it's an illustration of Martin's character. Plenty people here are ad hominem bombing Zimmerman for such and such he's done or such and such times he's called the police in 2004, etc, so don't whine when people therefore defend him by conversely calling into question Martin's checkered past.

Rufus, if we're going to bring character into play, then Zimmerman's must be shown as well. Domestic disturbances in the past with a TRO, felony assault on an officer, dropped down to resisting arrest.

Here's a good article about Zimmerman's past.
Zimmerman

Huffington also has a few good articles on the situation.
Huffington

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by majesticgent

 

Exactly, it is not OK to jump someone because you think they are following you. That is absurd. Maybe the guy following you is only going in the same direction.

So if you're walking in the neighborhood of a friends house, and some person in a car is obviously tailing you. You try to get away from them they continue to pursue you, get out of the car and ask. Hey what are you doing here? What do you do? You have no clue what this person is going to do to you. It's clear that they want a confrontation. You said say hey what's up letting them know you have the balls to confront them. Then they continue to come closer what do you do?

I guess the stand your ground laws only applies to, certain, people who have a gun.

reply to post by butcherguy


OK so I am 250 miles from home in a friend's neighborhood walking back from a convenience store minding my own business at 7:17pm. Does that give Zimmerman, you, or the police the right to arrest me? That was my point.

If someone looks suspicious in your neighborhood, yes he can be followed. Yes, you can introduce yourself and acquaint yourself to them. There are no laws against this, and there shouldn't be.

If said person begins hitting you, you can most certainly reply with lethal force.

This is just a sad case, and a sad misunderstanding. Unfortunately, I think this will end in even more tragic despair.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Trayvon committed a crime when he physically assaulted Zimmerman, as all evidence indicates.

People who think they have the right to attack Zimmerman because of perceived racism on their part, expose themselves, and so many others, to the rest of the country, as you put it.

It is becoming more and more evident, that people aren't going to put up with those who think they have the right to physically assault others, when they feel they have been mistreated.

That area of modern liberalism is dying fast, for reason like this situation, where people ignore the facts and holler racism.

Too bad, cause it only benefits the PTB.

Originally posted by majesticgent
reply to post by butcherguy

 

OK so I am 250 miles from home in a friend's neighborhood walking back from a convenience store minding my own business at 7:17pm. Does that give Zimmerman, you, or the police the right to arrest me? That was my point.

Sure, I am just pointing out how much info that's floating around out there isn't correct.... at least as far as I can tell.

I don't believe that we have enough strong information to come to any valid conclusions in this complicated case.

ETA: I have not seen any reports that any attempts were made to arrest Trayvon Martin.

reply to post by GenerationGap


If you follow that person you are presenting a confrontation. That's like walking up on a cornered dog and not expecting that dog to bite you.

Hopefully the pursuer would have sense enough to identify themselves and why they are following you if you're minding your own business.

Say you are married, and if someone was following your wife and approached her in a menacing way looking for a confrontation, would she be wrong not to pepper spray that person, or try to defend herself from someone who she assumed was just as suspicious?

Originally posted by korathin


It is called CITIZENS ARREST! The only difference between a Police Arrest is that if the Police arrest the wrong person, they can't be sued into oblivion. In-fact, Police Officers derive their right to arrest from Citizens Arrest.

One must witness a crime in order to affect a citizen's arrest. Zimmerman witnessed no crime.

Originally posted by happyhomemaker29
Originally posted by butcherguy
Originally posted by sjorges2002
Skittling is slang for dealing- Have you ever heard of a skittle party? I think OP is on to somethin jorge reply to post by HangTheTraitors It is drug-related, but I am not sure about the dealing. Skittling I am still looking. Urban Dictionary lists skittler as a person that prefers pills to other drugs. edit on 24-3-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given) Police state Trayvon had a bag of ....wait for it.....Skittles in his hand and Ice Tea. I'm sure this can be confirmed by the gas station. The color of his skin doesn't automatically mean he was a drug dealer. Whites are known to deal, asians too, latinos too. Every nationality deals. Trayvon had no arrests in his record for dealing, therefore he is innocent in the eyes of the law. Agreed, I am part black and don't deal drugs at all. My point was that the 'Skittles' thing has a drug connotation, but none that I could find meant dealing drugs.

My mistake. I was under the impression you meant Martin had Skittles the drug, not Skittles the candy. I apologize.

reply to post by majesticgent

If you follow that person you are presenting a confrontation. That's like walking up on a cornered dog and not expecting that dog to bite you.

I haven't read any reports that Zimmerman 'cornered' Martin.

And the 'dog' analogy shouldn't work. Hopefully the 17 year old had more going for him mentally than a canine does. Humans are capable of decision-making that dogs do not exhibit. I would take offense if you put my teenagers in the same league as an animal.

reply to post by nightstalker78


Smith wrote that Zimmerman stated, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." Martin's family insists it was Trayvon Martin who was heard yelling for help.

Three witnesses who were nearby have said it was Martin who was heard screaming for help in the 911 call placed by Zimmerman, Crump said.

Minutes later, someone who lives near the scene of the shooting called 911 to report an altercation. In the background, someone can be heard screaming for help, but the caller said she was too afraid to go outside and see what was going on.
"It's heart-wrenching, because those actually were my son's last words," said Trayvon's father. "And to hear his last words being cries of help, is devastating. It tears me apart as a father."

The state attorney's office also said a voice analysis would be conducted on 911 calls from the night of the shooting to determine who was yelling for help. (hmmm why has it taken about 25 days to do this ?)

In his statement last week, Zimmerman's father said his son never followed or confronted Trayvon. But on Monday, police released 911 recordings in which Zimmerman says he is, in fact, following the boy.


articles.cnn.com...:JUSTICE

Lastly why was Treyvon tagged as a John Doe for 2 days when the police had his cell phone ?

Also why was Treyvon's dead body drug tested, but not Zimmerman ????

Originally posted by Chalupas
UPDATE
UPDATE
UPDATE
UPDATE
UPDATE
UPDATE


BLACK PANTHERS - $10K bounty on Zimmerman

New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest in Sanford Saturday. And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

If the government won't do the job, we'll do it," Muhammad said, leading his group of eight party members in chants like "freedom or death" and "justice for Trayvon" while making the iconic gesture of raising their fists into the air

Hmm....Wouldn't they be doing the EXACT same thing they are saying Zimmerman did?
It's like we are really in the stone age. Apparently, a complete understanding of civilized judgement is unnessecary -- I mean, laws, who needs them. Right?

edit on 24-3-2012 by Chalupas because: (no reason given)

As much as I want a jury trial to see all the facts, this is extremely dangerous and needs to stop NOW. They are being vigilantes themselves and it will become an us vs. them world. Something we do not need. This is when Jesse Jackson should implant himself. Or Sharpton. Or Obama. Someone needs to being sanity to the situation and FAST, before another life is lost.

reply to post by poet1b


I am willing to bet money if I followed you and you felt I was a threat you would defend yourself by any means necessary, and I wouldn't fault you for that because by me following you and not indicating why I am following you; should come across as suspicious to you and a threat to your safety.

What did you want him to do curl up in a ball and cry?

Plus the evidence shows there was a fight between the two, not that Martin attacked Zimmerman as you want to put it.

Witness for Zimmerman

Police said Zimmerman called 911 and described Martin as “suspicious.” The two scuffled, and Trayvon wound up dead from a single bullet from Zimmerman’s licensed 9mm semiautomatic, authorities say.
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help, help.’ I told him to stop, I was calling 911,” John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was laying in the grass. And I believe he was dead at that point,” the eyewitness claimed.

Read more: www.nypost.com...

Witness for Martin

Several witnesses have disputed the idea that Zimmerman was acting in selfdefense.

“I heard someone crying – not boo-hoo crying, but scared or terrified or hurt maybe,” Mary Cutcher told the Miami Herald. “To me, it was a child.” She explained, “This was not self-defense. We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”

source: milwaukeecourieronline.com...

So the alleged attack by Martin or Zimmerman is not so black and white as you are putting it. (no pun intended)

reply to post by butcherguy


I didn't say it was an analogy to this case at all.

You're taking things way out of context. I was illustrating cause and effect. Cause: you walk up on a cornered dog. Effect: it bites you.

Never once did I say Trayvon was like a cornered dog, or even allude to it.

reply to post by majesticgent


At first, on the phone talking to the police, Zimmerman was sitting in his truck watching Trayvon, then he got out and followed Trayvon, and reported him running, so that happened while Zimmerman was on the phone with the police, while Trayvon was talking to his girlfriend. The part about cornering Trayvon isn't a quote, so it would be interesting to see what was really said. What time frame did the conversation end with the police, and the altercation makes a big difference.

Still doesn't prove that Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon. There is difference between following someone to watch their actions, and pursuing someone. There is no evidence that Zimmerman meant to catch Trayvon.

If all Zimmerman did was round the corner, he has the right to walk around the corner and see what is going on in his own neighborhood. And from the phone call to Trayvon's girlfriend, Trayvon starts asking the questions first.

It comes down to who assaulted who first.

We also have another eye witness that saw the two struggling on the ground with Trayvon on top.

reply to post by majesticgent


Nice, that video presents a wildly different picture than what Zimmerman and the Sanford PD paints.

Originally posted by majesticgent
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I didn't say it was an analogy to this case at all.

You're taking things way out of context. I was illustrating cause and effect. Cause: you walk up on a cornered dog. Effect: it bites you.

Never once did I say Trayvon was like a cornered dog, or even allude to it.

That's like walking up on a cornered dog and not expecting that dog to bite you.

You said that ^^^^^.

The word 'like' is what makes it an analogy.

1. a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar. b. A comparison based on such similarity.

Source

You used the word like. If you didn't intend it as an analogy, what was the purpose of including it in the post?

reply to post by poet1b


I will credit Zimmerman for feeling the need to protect his community from crime because too many sit back and do nothing, but I think he crossed the line when he said he's following the kid and the 911 operator clearly advises him not to. There is no evidence supporting the fact that he did not continue to follow the kid.

Why did he call 911 if he didn't think the police were going to do their jobs properly? Why did he hang up the phone? If Treyvon approached him in a menacing manner, why didn't he call 911 immediately and drive off??? I mean are we saying Treyvon drug Zimmerman. Zimmerman said the kid was running, i.e. attempting to flee and avoid confrontation, why did Zimmerman pursue???

We will never see eye to eye and I'm about to throw out the age old overused and tired cliche; I'm going to agree to disagree because I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me.