Evolution Busted by Definition - Information, Intelligence and Language / Videos and Evidence

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by windword
How about all those animals on the Ark. How did Jonah survive 3 days in the belly of a whale? .

DNA bank.

Originally posted by windword
Virgin birth anyone?

Artificial insemination

Originally posted by windword
Resurrection of dead people........I could go on.

Advanced medicine.

edit on 23-3-2012 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

Oh, the Ancient Alien overlord that wrote the bible did it? Mkay.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

No chance of that. 666 is Carbon. It has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. See there. Science just verified religion.

I must have missed the chemistry section of the bible, where was it?

Ambiguous....

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”
― Noam Chomsky

What about a third option that has elements of both arguments. Or maybe a fourth that we haven't even thought of yet?

Debating is fine so long as you don't limit yourself with the only two choices presented to you.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
This video presents the Definition of three words as applied to consciousness. For complete and sentient consciousness to exist, three primary mechanisms must be present: Information, Intelligence and Language.

This is quite a claim. First is the use of the phrase "complete and sentient consciousness". Define this please so we know what you are talking about. Can we have non-sentient consciousness? What makes a consciousness complete as opposed to incomplete? If you are going to try and argue that you will effect an intellectual marvel on the the order of "demolishing evolution," then I think we need the courtesy of clear communication and unambiguous concepts.

Second is the the claim that this requires three primary mechanisms. Explain this. Aside from the sloppy use of the terms, for example is the "honey dance" of the bees a form of language? What about ASL? COBOL? Information -- what is that? In fields like cybernetics which deal with information, there are rigorous definition of what information is. And intelligence.. same argument. I would suggest that taking the wide definitions of these three terms, slime mold could considered to be "intelligent."

There are other aspects to consciousness that additionally come into play for awareness and sentience to be found in matter. This thread will focus on the three mentioned. Each of these three ways of processing take place in chains of information. These chains of information are repeated aspects of the biology that makes up the structure of the human chain of amino acids in the form of digital encoding. Consider what the Bible has to say on the subject after the video. Consult the defined structure from the Hebrew linguistic morphology of the Hebrew word 'Speak'.

I'm only going to respond to you on this thread, I'm not going to spend time on a bunch of videos linked from evangelical websites.. I would rather you exercise your own god given intelligence and present those arguments yourself.

Now, let me demolish the possibility of Evolution as a cause and reduce it to a result of Intelligent Design. For evidence, I will use the root word of the Hebrew language for the word 'Speak'. To understand why this is evidence, realize that the Hebrew language is like the branches and root system of a tree. One word is a root. From the root, each additional word is then built by adding a bit (letter) of information into the sequence. This works the same way DNA constructs the building-blocks of life. Remember, this is God's language of His Word.

Using linguistics, and the features of a specific language, to "demolish evolution" is, and I rarely say this, absurd. I say this as a linguist. Linguistics has nothing to do with evolution, anymore than oil-painting explains how the immune system works.

... snipp ...

Word is Speech. Word is information. Word is the Wave that is associated with all particles within the quanta of light. God demonstrates the knowledge and gives us wisdom to understand by providing evidence that defies explanation or accident.

This has nothing to do with linguistics, language, intelligence but is more mumbo jumbo. "Word is the Wave.. " what?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


Design is in nature as evidenced by chains of information in language, DNA and intelligence. Evolution is a result and not a cause.

Wrong, Chain of information are not evidence for design. As with most of the variation of the "design argument," this is usually along the lines of "A designer is the only source of design and design is the only reason for order, therefore any sign of order, no matter how I define it, is proof of a designer."

Originally posted by Namaste1001
“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”
― Noam Chomsky

What about a third option that has elements of both arguments. Or maybe a fourth that we haven't even thought of yet?

Debating is fine so long as you don't limit yourself with the only two choices presented to you.

Right, this is what I think. I don't mind debating, I have fun. However, I know there's things we haven't thought of and hope that we eventually think of them. Outside the box. I don't like inside the box lol. Even though sometimes it's good to think inside the box, I don't like to be there all the time. I want to be outside the box lol.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by EnochWasRight

No chance of that. 666 is Carbon. It has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. See there. Science just verified religion.

 

I must have missed the chemistry section of the bible, where was it?

Ambiguous....

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.

e. Revelation 13:18 (See bottom of page) Or is humanity’s number.

Carbon is the 6th element and 666 by atomic structure. 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. This evidence is enough to demonstrate God's word as valid to what it claims. Information entropy and collapsing wave function is enough to prove evolution wrong as a cause. Instead, it's a result of programing from a creator. This one post is enough to tell you what you need to do. Hit the ground and repent. Overcome the beast within first, then the spirit will overcome the rest.

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Originally posted by metamagic

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


Design is in nature as evidenced by chains of information in language, DNA and intelligence. Evolution is a result and not a cause.

Wrong, Chain of information are not evidence for design. As with most of the variation of the "design argument," this is usually along the lines of "A designer is the only source of design and design is the only reason for order, therefore any sign of order, no matter how I define it, is proof of a designer."

Information entropy cannot demonstrate information increasing in nature apart from life and consciousness. The byproducts of life are necessary for life. Collapsing wave function as a primary component of quantum mechanics demands consciousness. Nothing you can show from nature can overcome this conclusion. Simply saying it is so does not make it so. Intelligent Design has the theory in its favor at every turn. Evolution as a cause is a forced conclusion built on circular reasoning. The Bible eliminates my need for circular reasoning by demonstrating the answer by enigma that is an OPART (out of place artifact).

The entire story of the Bible is built around the mark of mankind (Carbon). It establishes the primary motive of the fruit of knowledge at the beginning and then ends by revealing what that fruit is. It also answers the why of the questions. Not only does it provide all the answers, it demands that you have a proper spirit to visualize the answer. Apart from your willingness by faith and virtue, the answer will remain as a question.

whare they going to get around to examining adam's rib ? noah's ark ?

This is absolute rubbish, busted by definition, really! So getting clever with words disproves evolution? Its like saying the word 'semantic' is the only word you need as it encompasses everything which is utter $*** as most people know. I hate these people that just can't accept hard facts.

Here's a breakdown of your typical EnochWasABandteacher thread:

Scientific sound-bite A

+

God

+

Bible quote

+

???

=

Evolution proven to be a lie

Take that atheists!

reply to post by tinfoilman


My point, as dire as it was, , was that it is not the case where evolution makes a new species and plops it into existence. It happens slowly, something you have agreed to.

It happens TO the creature becoming the next evolutionary stage. It does not leave behind a template.

1 + 1 = 2, not 2 + 1 left over.

Evolution is a change within the creature. It does not occur and create 2 separate thing.

Things do not suddenly grow an extra claw, or develop the ability to breathe under water over the course of a single event. Evolution causes it to occur gradually, within the same creature.

There is NO chimp with human attributes to us, because they split off separately, just as no humans will have attributes to chimps for the same, and the common ancestor also will have evolved over the changing course of evolution... Wed can go back as far as we want and find similar attributes to pretty much all life on earth, but whatever common ancestor there was, has long gone due to the same evolutionary process.

You seem to think, at least what I hear from what you say, that it's not a closed case because there should still be some creature here today that we all evolved from.

?

Evolution does not mean stepping off one ladder onto another and leaving behind the former thing we evolved from...

Where life is simple, easy and prolific, and very little adaptation is required for survival, life stays pretty much as it is.

Where life is rough, hard and unstable, things need to adapt to remain.

Not sure why you are not getting that.

reply to post by tinfoilman


My intent was not to attqack you.. I hope I didn't come across that way.

That is why my initial reply singled out the point I wanted to make, thinking you had a different angle, I wanted to make my angle clear also - but it was shot down as an off tangent load of twaddle which I didn't think it warranted.

(I often do that, I'm usually the sharp end of the point.. lol)

Evolution to me appears as delicate as the idea of intelligent design. It's got it's good points and then it's inexplicable ones. But to me, it is not in question; I can see it around me, I can test it by looking at historical data and fossils and I can assume that while it's not 100% proven, this is indeed how things can occur.

I don't think a skymagician who for some reason creates a blue ball of mud 3 stones away from an inferno, with all of his limitless power and grace, would bother putting mostly fallible and broken entities on it, and cultivate us like some grand experiment. That is basically what god is, when you boil it down.

Only to say he's great. ?!

I think evolution is amazing. I think the fact that life can thrive in the harshest of environments, is far more pertinent to understanding ourselves, than putting faith in a belief that has no basis in reality. I can touch a diamond... I cannot touch jesus.

We look into nature these days and we find so many intricate 'designs' that are mathematical in truth, and I think we need to explore the basics more. What has the Fibonacci done for so many life forms since life started, that should be ignored? A repeating string of structures that start in the minute and expand into the grand.

I don't need to know about god to understand this complex beauty, and instead I find the argument that god created it, simplistic and naive. Arrogant, no less. It is pure. It is nature. There is no need to explain it with an omnipresent being who pretty much despises us to allow all of his creation be destroyed over time, by the very things he calls children.

My stupid doctor needs to check my script, I'm ranting almost every post

argh

reply to post by EnochWasRight

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.

Carbon is the 6th element and 666 by atomic structure. 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. This evidence is enough to demonstrate God's word as valid to what it claims.

So carbon is 666 and 666 is the devil. We are carbon based lifeforms so we are made of the devil?

Give your head a shake. Religious nutters try and put meaning into things that have no meaning. For every ambiguous claim you make for god from non specific wording in the bible, I can make an equal claim that goes against it.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by EnochWasRight

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.

Carbon is the 6th element and 666 by atomic structure. 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. This evidence is enough to demonstrate God's word as valid to what it claims.

 

So carbon is 666 and 666 is the devil. We are carbon based lifeforms so we are made of the devil?

Give your head a shake. Religious nutters try and put meaning into things that have no meaning. For every ambiguous claim you make for god from non specific wording in the bible, I can make an equal claim that goes against it.

Revelation says to overcome the Beast. The Beast is marked by Carbon. The Beast is revealed on three levels: Global, National and individual. You overcome with the armor of God.

Ephesians 10

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

The Beast is marked by Carbon

What? What does that even mean? You do realize carbon is in everything and that without it there is no life, well lifeforms that we are currently aware of. That said, are you saying carbon is the mark of the beast, as in the devil?

This is why people need to stop believing everything they read from Bible as if it has any factual basis.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Revelation says to overcome the Beast. The Beast is marked by Carbon.

So what you are saying is, that oil is the devil? Or diamonds perhaps? Lots of things with carbon you know. The higher the percentage of carbon, the more of devil inside? And how about all that CO2 in the air? Better avoid breathing to minimize contact with the devil?

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Revelation says to overcome the Beast. The Beast is marked by Carbon.

So what you are saying is, that oil is the devil? Or diamonds perhaps? Lots of things with carbon you know. The higher the percentage of carbon, the more of devil inside? And how about all that CO2 in the air? Better avoid breathing to minimize contact with the devil?

edit on 24-3-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

Pretty much all organic matter has carbon in it.

There is the possibility that silicon based lifeforms and organic matter could exist.

Silicon compounds may possibly be biologically useful under temperatures or pressures different from the surface of a terrestrial planet, either in conjunction with or in a role less directly analogous to carbon.

So... Maybe they are the godly ones and we are all made by the devil. Perhaps the bible folk are just worshiping Satan. Or perhaps people are reading waaaay too much into a 2000 year old book written by people with political aspirations.

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The Beast is marked by Carbon

What? What does that even mean? You do realize carbon is in everything and that without it there is no life, well lifeforms that we are currently aware of. That said, are you saying carbon is the mark of the beast, as in the devil?

This is why people need to stop believing everything they read from Bible as if it has any factual basis.

edit on 24-3-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)

Yes. By definition, Carbon is at the center of the garden.

Genesis 3

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Carbon must be overcome to move on to a new reality. Salvation from this place is what the Bible is all about. Carbon is not evil. Our use of it is evil. We have demonstrated this. We are killing a planet to learn the lesson. Carbon is by no means the only element. It is the element that marks our life here.

What do governments use to protect power? Fossil fuel and oil. Why? Greed and power. How do they preserve power against truth? Tyranny and multiplicity by division. What is the entire subject matter of Revelation? Do you know? You are best advised to get familiar with the subject. Whether you like it or not, the Carbon will overtake your physical life. If you are left in the empty tomb when the rock is rolled away, you will not leave.

sorry I asked. I should have never came back to this thread.