Pretty cool photos of some "contrails" in Kansas

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Iwinder

 

It makes a big difference there, Where we live we are under a fairly heavy flight path for commercial jets but a zero path for military jets.

I guess I forgot to mention that I live and work in the flight paths of the busiest airport in the world, Atlanta's Hartsfield/Jackson International Airport. I see the things called contrails on a daily bases and also see the elusive nighttime contrail.

I do not see military jets fly over my location so what does that matter,or are you saying military planes made the OP contrails he posted?

There are commercial jets and there are Military jets and we all know the difference here, since you brought out the brag book on your area we too live under a heavy flight path, Toronto to Chicago and I can tell you straight off I have lived here for 52 years and the past ten years have been a treat.

Military flights do no fly here from East to West or the other way around, only commercial flights and even they are getting weird here.

I have some nice pictures from almost ten years ago but I can't for the life of me figure out how to upload them here as I am challenged in that department.

Anyways I am drifting off topic here, back to what I was trying to say yes all areas are different but I can say this everyone here in this city has noticed this air show for quite some time.
Regards, iwinder

Can you tell the difference between skywriting and contrails?



Which one is which?

reply to post by SteelToe


No idea - which is a chemtrail?

reply to post by Iwinder


Even though i live to a high traffic plane area, i never see trails, i only see them about once a week, and on that day is when i see a BUNCH of trails everywhere like the pictures ive posted, and im outside looking around alot.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

No idea - which is a chemtrail?

This one

reply to post by SteelToe


In that "o" how do planes even do a turn that tight?

reply to post by scapers2u


It just looks small the O could be a mile wide or more actually.

Watch some of the videos if you can.

reply to post by SteelToe


Skywriting, using smoke oil, is completely different from a contrail.

The whitish smoke produced by the burnt oil is still oil....tiny particles of it, and will dissipate very quickly.

Contrails are composed of tiny particles of water ice.....and they will either evaporate (sublimate) quickly, or slowly....OR, they will remain, and contribute to even MORE cloud formation, depending on conditions.

Also, the activities of skywriting are done at low altitudes....way too low for contrail formation. Below 10,000 feet, as a rule.

But, the particles (whether oil, or ice) will still behave in similar manner in terms of how the air flows affect them. Winds, up/down drafts and horizontal wind shears.

reply to post by SteelToe

It just looks small the O could be a mile wide or more actually.

In your example? Could be. Depends on how fast that airplane was flying at the time. And, how steep his/her angle of bank was. But, that skywriting example was mostly likely done by a small, and slow airplane.


Images

Here is the website that has the photo of the skywriting "Sorry":

www.pilotlist.com...


The radius of a turn (as evidence in the case of skywriting, AND of contrails) depends on two factors:

Speed, and angle of bank. The angle of bank determines the "rate" of turn, or the rate of heading change, in degrees per second.depending on the speed of the airplane.

IOW, at the same speed, the radius gets smaller ("tighter") with a steeper angle of bank.

And/Or, at a given angle of bank, the radius gets smaller ("tighter") with a slower speed.

Use this Aircraft Turn Information Calculator
to see the relationships.

For our purposes, you can ignore the box called "Aircraft Rated Stall Speed".


So, example:

Airplane at 100 Knots, and 35° bank, the diameter of a full 360° circle is about 2,500 feet...less than one-half mile.

Go faster, or bank steeper, and the diameter (radius) changes.

Originally posted by SteelToe

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

No idea - which is a chemtrail?

This one

So signwriting is chemtrails now?

I thought chemtrails were supposed to be a secret activity done for one or more of a number of generally nefarious reasons (population control, promoting HAARP, etc), done by airliners at high altitude?

How does signwriting fit that??

Given that it is not secret, not done at high altitude, not done by airliners??

Looks to me like you are another one of the "expand the definition brigade" - trying to make the word "chemtrails" apply to all sorts of non-secret stuff?

I think it is an attempt to get someone...anyone....to actually admit that chemtrails exist by making anything in the atmosphere into a chemtrail. In which case why not also car exhausts? flyspray? Your breath?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Chemtrails were already confirmed as real. Didnt you see that thread about it? It said NASA released an article on their website that explained their new research for space wind by sending rockets into the atmosphere and releasing a chemical tracer trimethyl aluminum? i forgot. But also it said this chemical tracer will produce thick milky sheet like clouds. So a chemical trail released by an aircraft, thats book definition.

Originally posted by scapers2u
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Chemtrails were already confirmed as real. Didnt you see that thread about it? It said NASA released an article on their website that explained their new research for space wind by sending rockets into the atmosphere and releasing a chemical tracer trimethyl aluminum? i forgot. But also it said this chemical tracer will produce thick milky sheet like clouds. So a chemical trail released by an aircraft, thats book definition.

Which book is that?

all the chemtrail support sites do not share your definition - eg Rense, The Truth Denied, Will Thomas (who started it all), Clifford Carnicom

Wiki says::

The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some trails left by aircraft are actually chemical or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for purposes undisclosed to the general public in clandestine programs directed by government officials.

Repeated attempts to expand the definition of "chemtrails" to include non-secret activities are a fairly obvious attempt to get people to accept that "chemtrails" exist by any means possible - even semantics.

However chemtrails supposedly started in the mid-late 1990's - sounding rockets have been publicly putting "stuff" into the upper atmosphere since the 1960's at least - probably earlier.

So clearly they are not one and the same thing at all.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

I think it is an attempt to get someone...anyone....to actually admit that chemtrails exist by making anything in the atmosphere into a chemtrail. In which case why not also car exhausts? flyspray? Your breath?

The pictures I posted of skywriting fit every definition of chemtrails but your own.

Cars don't fly around leaving trails in the sky and your breath doesn't either.....DUH

Originally posted by SteelToe


Cars don't fly around leaving trails in the sky and your breath doesn't either.....DUH

When it's cold enough they do.

When water vapor exits a car tailpipe when it's minus 40, for example, the water vapor temperature drops from about 250 degrees to minus 40 in less than 10 seconds. Water cooled that fast forms tiny ice particles, so small that ten of them could fit side by side on the finger-cutting edge of a piece of paper. Collectively, millions of these particles take form as ice fog, the cotton candy-like clouds that hang over our roads.

www2.gi.alaska.edu...

Skywriters don't leave trails of ice crystals and they don't operate at 35,000 feet.

Originally posted by SteelToe
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I think it is an attempt to get someone...anyone....to actually admit that chemtrails exist by making anything in the atmosphere into a chemtrail. In which case why not also car exhausts? flyspray? Your breath?

The pictures I posted of skywriting fit every definition of chemtrails but your own.

they didn't fit the definition of any of the sites I linked to, nor wiki's - can you not read??

Cars don't fly around leaving trails in the sky and your breath doesn't either.....DUH

Just 'cos you can't see them doesn't mean they don't leave trails in the atmosphere - not all pollution is visible

And by the same token aircraft are leaving "chemical trails" from their exhausts even when they do not leave contrails - in fact they burn fuel a lot faster when taking off and climbing than when in cruise, so make more pollution then, when their trails are normally invisible - it's still chemicals.

Are you denying that your breath is a trail of chemicals in the atmosphere???

reply to post by scapers2u


More careful attention to the reading material will prevent this misunderstanding in future:

Chemtrails were already confirmed as real. Didnt you see that thread about it? It said NASA released an article on their website that explained their new research for space wind by sending rockets into the atmosphere and releasing a chemical tracer trimethyl aluminum?

There is a word (actually, a phrase of two words) up there that is your first clue: "space wind".

The article and projects that are mentioned involving the release of TMA by NASA using rockets....(rockets!)....are conducted in.....SPACE.

Generally at heights of 60 miles and up. That is the focus of that particular research.

By the way, the Internationally accepted beginning of "space" is defined as 100km (~62 NM) above the Earth's surface.

So, no.....contrary to your assertion, "chemtrails" have not been "confirmed as real"...not by NASA, not by any (reputable) book, not by any (reputable) person or organization.

Here is a link to an automotive chemtrail.
www.osei.us...
It takes chemicals to transport the chemicals to consume the chemicals and if chemicals are spilled it takes chemicals to clean them up.

Originally posted by SteelToe
Cars don't fly around leaving trails in the sky and your breath doesn't either.....DUH

On very cold days, car exhausts are much more visible than on warm days (I'm talking about normal car exhaust, not the exhaust of a car that is burning a lot of oil):

image1.masterfile.com...

Car exhausts are more visible in the winter because the water vapor present in the exhaust (and there is quite a bit of water vapor in car exhaust) freezes and becomes visible. Water vapor itself is invisible, but when it freezes, it condenses into tiny ice crystals which ARE visible. THAT'S why you can see a car's exhaust better in the winter.

A contrail is very similar. When you see a plane's contrail, what you are seeing is the result of the water vapor (which, again, is abundant in jet engine exhaust) condensing and freezing in the very cold temperatures at high altitude -- at 30,000 feet or so. If the temperatures and humidity levels are right, the trails will persist and even cause additional water vapor already in the atmosphere to freeze.

Skywriting is quite different. Skywriting is done at MUCH lower altitudes, where it may not be as cold, and by using specialty skywriting equipment to burn oil, which becomes visible as smoke -- much like a car that burns too much oil leaves a very visible exhaust. Visible Aircraft contrails, on the other hand, are NOT burnt oil, but rather frozen water.

By the way, a person's breath is also only visible when it's cold. Same thing.