Drawing Mohammed: Idolatry or Blasphemy? + FAITH Expression possible w/o Free Speach (DMD = May 20th

Anyone who resorts to being violent or destructive because they consider the words or actions of another person offensive do not deserve oxygen imo, it is primitive and barbaric behaviour.

Turn the other cheek.

Originally posted by Aeons

Your JW's were much easier to get rid of than ours. I generally take the view that people believe deeply that they are trying to do me an immense favour, and am very patient. Eventually we had to get a group of friends together, have a neighbour phone us a warning they were coming. Everyone dressed up in black robes, chanted in a dirge like way, with lights off and candles lit. One of our cats would meow like it was being killed when it was picked up.....We never saw them again. What a relief.

I never thought of that approach.

Whatever works though right?

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by petrus4

 

the muslims you refer to are the wahabbi types. Freemasonry created wahabbism and muslim brotherhood was part of mi6.

OMG that figures! Leave it up to the globalists to instigate a cult onto government while corrupting yet another 'religion'.

Isn't it telling its that same crowd INSTIGATING all the hate we see on TV? Passing along the death-threats to the guy in FL,... Making the obscure FL guy an INTERNATIONAL news spectical, ... burning the books in front of Opium farmers where books still are hard to obtain, .... witch trials, ... another Inquisition...

Originally posted by Aeons
The problem with this negotiation is that the divide is much deeper than just a discussion on blasphemy or idolatry and cultural movement to rationality.

The concept of rationality is culturally defined and proscribed with laws of a religious nature intended not a guide for individual actions, but as cultural dictates. Rationality is defined as the acceptance of the perfect of Allah's laws. Religious freedom as acceptance of Shariah. Reason is to live in the grateful acceptance of submission to Allah.

Lending offense is put upon the offender to control. Not on you controlling your reaction to being offended.

Movement to rationality has been anticipated and religious/cultural woo has been applied in advance by redefining all the parameters and words.

Your JW's were much easier to get rid of than ours. I generally take the view that people believe deeply that they are trying to do me an immense favour, and am very patient. Eventually we had to get a group of friends together, have a neighbour phone us a warning they were coming. Everyone dressed up in black robes, chanted in a dirge like way, with lights off and candles lit. One of our cats would meow like it was being killed when it was picked up.....We never saw them again. What a relief.

LOL. Back when the JWs used to visit me weekly, I invited them in and discussed their literature's "issues". When they realized I had just finished reading the bible and that even their best scholars couldn't refute my criticisms of their pamplets THAT was when they stopped comming by. When I saw them in the neighborhood I asked why they stopped? They said "you know the bible better than we do and we're convinced you wouldn't join our church". They were right as in my POV they were false-teaching several key points of the bible in order to cultishly control their foolowers. I would have taught them to leave the JWs.

reply to post by petrus4

Unfortunate; neither Hall or Irwing believed that the prophet was divine...

Washington Irwing clearly describes the life Mohammed from a rather Christian point of view, but non the less; one should take into account when it was written and who the targeted readers was.

I do not think that it is reasonable that because his naive exaggerations is being cited by islamophobes, it should render the rationality of his writings completely unvalid. -On the other hand; I'm pretty sure most rational readers of theosophic literature find the works of both Hall and his sources both informative and rather enjoyable.

A .pdf copy of Irwing's "Life of M." can be found at kouroo.info

Originally posted by nakiel
reply to post by petrus4

 

Unfortunate; neither Hall or Irwing believed that the prophet was divine...

Truthfully, I'm of two minds where angelic contact is concerned. (In terms of Mohammed's contact with Gabriel, in particular)

They're awesome beings, and contact with them definitely isn't something that we should feel casual about; they do deserve reverence. On the other hand though, I think it can be equally destructive if we hold the opinion that you have to be someone incredibly unique in order for them to speak to you.

I have had contact with Michael and Raphael before, on multiple occasions; although still less than half a dozen times. It can be an amazing experience, and intimidating, yes; but if you've seen some of my comments here at times, you'll know I'm nobody special at all. When they reach out to you, it is because of their grace, not because of anything about you at all.

As far as Mohammed having a divine commission is concerned; I think he did, but everything I've read about him up to this point, has truthfully also implied that he literally doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as either Buddha or Jesus Christ. The impression that I've had, has been of someone who was a partial mystic, but who was also essentially a somewhat milder version of Genghis Khan; an extremely aggressive and violent man, who became the model for that among his followers.

Originally posted by petrus4
...
I have had contact with Michael and Raphael before, on multiple occasions;

I have no idea why my mind raced to the idea of "multiple orgasms" when I read that.

Originally posted by petrus4
As far as Mohammed having a divine commission is concerned; I think he did, but everything I've read about him up to this point, has truthfully also implied that he literally doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as either Buddha or Jesus Christ. The impression that I've had, has been of someone who was a partial mystic, but who was also essentially a somewhat milder version of Genghis Khan; an extremely aggressive and violent man, who became the model for that among his followers.

edit on 22-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

Yea I'd agree with that. There are lots of heroes people have of great or strong leaders. Even Obama gets some of that having become a sort of answer to MLK's dream-speech. But what Jesus did was radically different.

Reading the bible from page 1 through the end of the OT (after reading lots of pagan and archeological and Apocrypha stuff to have a bit more context),... the OT tells the story of the history of Good V Evil here on earth. What Jesus said restored hope.

In the early sections of the Koran its like he the author never got that, and continues on prescribing rules rules rules... and succeeds at surviving... and inspiring others how he made it through such amazing adversity (perhapse inspired by his own hope (like a hope and commitment for good that Jesus NAILED)). But I didn't get an "answer" to "restore hope of humanity" the same way I did with Jesus's sermon on the mount.

Other characters have transformed stories into my heart, but ONLY Jesus ANSWERED history of good v evil in such a profound way.

reply to post by reitze


When you say good v evil, what do you mean exactly?

Originally posted by nusnus
When you say good v evil, what do you mean exactly?

Starting in the garden with the fruit... and culminating with the incredible lie... Who told you you were naked? Gen 3:11. And following the manifestation of that lie through the OT... what a pathetic hopless state we're in... but JESUS restored hope for this world not to become enslaved by the more natural evils that are #ing obvious to smart people.
Edit+
BTW, having been raised atheist with lots of porn in the house... and THEN reading the bible... the lie was prolly easier for me to notice than for many.... But I'm not the only one to have noticed. I've been to a few nude beaches and stuff like that b4/after the 1994 wake up experiences I had. Recently this concept came up and resonates with my POV... en.wikipedia.org...

"They find no conflict between the teachings of the Bible and living their lives and worshiping God without any clothing, believing that covering the body leads to its sexualization. "

Edit ++
That last edit reminds me of a movie recommeded to me recently... it was the Baader Beinhof Complex. (was available on Netflix):

And after watching that for the first time I felt I understood enough to embracing the old song without fear of being sucked into an evil vortex... .

Edit+++
And other than the bible, THIS is the best book I've read to illuminate the winning strategy in the war of good v evil. It's a great book (amazon), and its getting made into a move (which looks like it will be on par with the best movies ever (JC Superstar, The Fountainhead, and Atlas Shrugged)).
The 5th Sacred ThingThere's a place for you at our table if you'll join us!


And what's happening now? Let Ayn tell it (Destroying capitalism from within (robber barons))...

And who's got the greatest guitar ever yet built? No it wasn't jimi or slash. Who really cares? Atlas.