Masons Helping Masons Succeed: A History of Deception and Corruption

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by mr-lizard
It's also very cruel that talented workers are excluded from jobs because their masonic foreman has hired a friend of the lodge and such.

These are not uncommon occurrences in the UK.

Only a fool would hire an unqualified applicant over someone who could actually do the job that was required of them. If Masons actually acted the way you described, their businesses would fail very quickly.

Please don't get me wrong, I by no means associate all masons with corruption as I know they donate to charity and help less fortunate people.

But in some cases over here, some masons do abuse their powers and trust.

Peace

reply to post by KSigMason


I mentioned that case specifically because I witnessed it first hand.
Others that are well known? Well, Bono's "charity" comes to mind as well as the recent news about PETA destroying most of its animals instead of finding them good homes like they advertise.

If fraudulent charities weren't a problem, there wouldn't have to be watchdog groups.

Here is a blog discussing the issues surrounding the transparency of charities:
rvanbroekhoven.blogspot.com...

I wonder how the third sector gains and maintains the trust of the public, and the donor public in particular, and the media, when scandals seem to provide some form of prurient interest in what is going on in the world of public benefit, and when reports of scandals are frequently the driving forces behind State legislation and regulation. In an environment of globalization and interdependence, where public benefit institutions and organizations grow larger and larger, and more powerful in informing public policy, where skepticism so often abounds, and where criminal and terrorist organizations and activities know no geographical boundaries and are often financed through charitable organizations that provide a façade of legitimacy to the solicitation of funds for seeming public benefit or charitable purposes, can there be any reasonable expectation of transparency and accountability?

So, like I said, if you have complete faith that your organization is truthful and can be trusted, good for you.
Please don't fume because I've learned to be more wary. I do give to organizations, but not just one. I have learned not to place all of my eggs in one basket and not trust any entity 100%.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Individuals abuse power no matter what organizational ladder they have climbed. That's true of every organization and unfortunately it resonates the same with Freemasonry, some people will abuse power. That shouldn't reflect poorly on the positive things an organization does though. Kinda like throwing away the whole dozen, when only one or two eggs are rotten.

Afterthought, PETA as a comparison is a pretty abysmal example. That particular NPO is much more corrupt than most political NPOs, and that's saying something. They are not as much about the animals, as they are about the greenbacks if ya get my drift. They would rather spend money on stupid publicity stunts than spend money saving a few dogs from the euph chamber. I know you were trying to compare charity v charity, but at least compare us to VFW or something.

reply to post by W3RLIED2

PETA as a comparison is a pretty abysmal example.

To you it may be, but to me, it's not.
Lives are lives.

Regardless of my choice of comparisons, we're discussing the truthfulness and trustworthiness of charitable organizations.

For the record, I have yet to hear Masons tell stories about when "so and so" was caught putting his hand in the cookie jar.
All I ever hear are fuzzy stories. "He was a wonderful guy.... it was an honor burying him in his apron.... doesn't his tombstone look like such a strong phallus?" so on and so forth. In reality, masons are only human (right?). I'm sure a good half of the masonic members are decent fellows, but I'd like to hear about a time one discovered that there was a fox in the henhouse and what transpired.

So, masons, I'd like to hear some blood and guts stories about when and why a member got thrown out of your said lodge. Someone out there has to have a story like this. Anyone? After all, not all masons are upstanding citizens. It's impossible. The odds are against this and reasoning that even the majority of the masons are quality citizens can't be true 100 percent of the time.

Is it against your oaths to repeat stories where a mason disgraced himself by being greedy and dishonest?

I'd say that much, much more than half of me are good members.

I hope my gravestone represents my very large fallice. Oh, wait I mean I hope my gravestone represents a large fallice... Or , no, wait.... Why would my gravestone represent a large fallice?

Im not at liberty to discuss my oathes, any more. However , I heard there was a huge thread in the secret forum all about Freemasons.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Thanks for your reply.
I'm just sorry you don't have any stories to entertain my curiosity.

Anybody?

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Individuals abuse power no matter what organizational ladder they have climbed. That's true of every organization and unfortunately it resonates the same with Freemasonry, some people will abuse power. That shouldn't reflect poorly on the positive things an organization does though. Kinda like throwing away the whole dozen, when only one or two eggs are rotten.

Afterthought, PETA as a comparison is a pretty abysmal example. That particular NPO is much more corrupt than most political NPOs, and that's saying something. They are not as much about the animals, as they are about the greenbacks if ya get my drift. They would rather spend money on stupid publicity stunts than spend money saving a few dogs from the euph chamber. I know you were trying to compare charity v charity, but at least compare us to VFW or something.

Can't argue with that.

PETA probably started with good intentions, but now it's a farce.

reply to post by mr-lizard

PETA probably started with good intentions, but now it's a farce.

Yes. This happens to charities. I don't know why anyone should be too surprised at this.
Corruption is rampant these days and to think that the Masonic organizations are the only truthful ones left, I'm afraid you've been hoodwinked.

reply to post by Afterthought


I assume that the "watchgroup" you are referring to is "PetaKillsAnimals.com", but who exactly is behind this and why? Sourcewatch is invaluable when it comes to following the money, the corporations that fund this group are the very groups opposed by PETA. Be careful, and learn to read rhetorically, don't accept any information solely because it seems to support what you already believe. We are not powerless to effect change in this world if we become the change we wish to see.

FYI, I am not a vegetarian, nor am I in favor of all tactics used by animal rights organization but I am not so gullible that I will accept the word of those who have an obvious agenda either.

Originally posted by network dude
so you are saying that given the chance to help either your sister, or a complete stranger, you would go with the stranger?

I don't believe I have ever seen anybody put more words in my mouth than you.

reply to post by no1smootha

I assume that the "watchgroup" you are referring to is "PetaKillsAnimals.com"

You've assumed wrong. I was not speaking about PETA specifically. I was speaking about watchdog groups that like to make sure that charities in general are doing what they claim. I believe you're intentionally harping on my use of PETA as a comparimson as a means of evading my request.
You should be careful about staying on topic.

I just can't believe that not one person can answer why they trust their lodge and members 100%.
(I understand if current members don't wish to share their stories on ATS.)

We have been taught to trust the bank. We've been taught to trust the church.
Masonic member no doubt have been taught to trust their lodges. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to have trust in your organization, but how can anyone be 100% sure? Do neighboring lodges come in to review the books while your lodge checks theirs? Where's the oversight?

reply to post by Afterthought

Then why bring up PETA at all, if it wasn't as an example?

Actually, the books of each Lodge are reviewed by the GL of their Jurisdiction, and there is frequent visitation between Lodges as well. I don't think that any Mason here would say that there are never instances of fraud, I know of one instance where a Brother had embezzled money from the Lodge funds. When the Lodge discovered this, he was brought up on criminal and Masonic charges and was expelled from Freemasonry.

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by network dude
so you are saying that given the chance to help either your sister, or a complete stranger, you would go with the stranger?

I don't believe I have ever seen anybody put more words in my mouth than you.

reading comprehension must not be one of your strong points.

Please tell me and everyone else here how me asking you a question is putting words in your mouth.

I'll be right here.

reply to post by no1smootha


Thanks for sharing.

and was expelled from Freemasonry.

Was that his only punishment? I'd hope he also did a bit of time and/or paid a fine to the courts for his crime(s).

reply to post by Afterthought


Yes, he was in fact found guilty of his crime by the courts, did time and had substantial fines as well. Masons are subject to Civil Law and Masonic Law, this man violated both.

reply to post by no1smootha

Then why bring up PETA at all, if it wasn't as an example?

It appears that I'm the only one who appreciated the example.
Do masons have an issue with which organizations your lodges are compared to?
Seems petty for all of you to keep harping on it.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by Afterthought

 

Yes, he was in fact found guilty of his crime by the courts, did time and had substantial fines as well.

Good. Glad to hear it.

Originally posted by Afterthought
For the record, I have yet to hear Masons tell stories about when "so and so" was caught putting his hand in the cookie jar.

There were three members expelled last year (one of them a Grand Lodge member) for exactly this thing, they embezzled from their home lodges (two were at the same lodge) and were caught during the annual audits.

reply to post by Afterthought


I trust my lodge and all Masonic brothers because we are bound to each other by strong ties. Our rituals, and initiation enstill in us a sense of fraternity and honor amongst each other and as such we trust each other exclusively when it comes to Fraternal business.

Now, if your desperate to hear a story of disagreement with Masons, amongst Masons, I can tell you that I personally have had many. There's no obligation that says we must always agree, and we must always get along. We're encouraged to, but I myself have had several polite indifferences amongst other masons, and one instance that was far less than polite. So, in summary, it turns out we're just men, and we act like men, weather it be in agreement or disagreement.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Afterthought
For the record, I have yet to hear Masons tell stories about when "so and so" was caught putting his hand in the cookie jar.

There were three members expelled last year (one of them a Grand Lodge member) for exactly this thing, they embezzled from their home lodges (two were at the same lodge) and were caught during the annual audits.

edit on 22-3-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.

Well thats what it always comes down to...the unforgivable crime is to steal from "the organization"...

You can drive drunk and hit a pregnant lady, but your mason brother judge will get you off the hook. But steal from the organization...EXILE!!

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by mr-lizard
It's also very cruel that talented workers are excluded from jobs because their masonic foreman has hired a friend of the lodge and such.

These are not uncommon occurrences in the UK.

Only a fool would hire an unqualified applicant over someone who could actually do the job that was required of them. If Masons actually acted the way you described, their businesses would fail very quickly.

uh...what world are you living in? This happens every day. Anyone who has ever worked a job knows it happens.
Listen, I know you like your organization, but a good way to earn my trust would be to expose the nepotism and favoritism, not deny that it exists.