Why do so many people have an issue with the TSA?

reply to post by defcon5


I remember you posting this same excuse before, and I remember my response: If the airlines are PRIVATE, and we are their "guests", they can bloody well pay for their own security. I don't want to pay for security for a private company. Clear enough for ya? Corporations enjoy private status while sucking off Uncle Sugar's teat, quite the opposite of free market capitalism.

Until my tax dollars stop paying for this invasive travesty, I refuse to fly as their "guest".

And to the OP, those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither (paraphrased from Benjamin Franklin). Perhaps you would like the police to patrol the grocery store while you're in there, so you feel safe....Maybe sit at the edge of your bed as you sleep to keep the boogeyman away. Only a docile sheep would think that the TSA frisking baby's diaper, grandma's depends, or grandpa's catheter bag is an acceptable use of taxpayer funds and keeps us all safe.

reply to post by 31Bravo


what about air marshals.

or how about this. Can you provide an alternative like any intelligent person can. Or do you argue that they are the end all for security?

Or do you want like military governance of all air ways. Then maybe all roads. Then maybe like all routes in and out of cities?

Where does it stop? Are we to suppose that terrorism will go away one day? Since it won't, are we to live in increased perpetual security paranoia's like we live with perpetual war?

You think there is a limit once you start down that road?
Like the poster before said. One day they bomb a bus and then we have an excuse to search everyone entering and exiting bus terminals, then city limits.

You are going off the assumption we can afford to make the USA fort Knox and do so forever.

I think you watch too much TV. news and Hollywood 24/7 is detrimental for common sense.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

what about air marshals.

or how about this. Can you provide an alternative like any intelligent person can. Or do you argue that they are the end all for security?

Or do you want like military governance of all air ways. Then maybe all roads. Then maybe like all routes in and out of cities?

Where does it stop? Are we to suppose that terrorism will go away one day? Since it won't, are we to live in increased perpetual security paranoia's like we live with perpetual war?

You think there is a limit once you start down that road?
Like the poster before said. One day they bomb a bus and then we have an excuse to search everyone entering and exiting bus terminals, then city limits.

You are going off the assumption we can afford to make the USA fort Knox and do so forever.

I think you watch too much TV. news and Hollywood 24/7 is a bad thing for common sense.

MEGAMIND - read back at last post I edited and didn't see your reply.

BIHOTZ: I see your point, in fact, I'm not a TSA agent but I do understand things that are in place for a reason. Again I ask.. you have a better solution to the TSA what is it? Or do you read too many ATS threads that you just follow the hater wagon? As far as watching TV, news, alternative and heyyyyy I even joined ATS (what have you) Yes.. I do. I read, watch, and listen to as much as I possibly can to decipher between extreme paranoia and true purpose. If you hate the TSA so much what did you go through that was so horrible the last time you flew that made you feel this way? I have never had an issue.. not one.

reply to post by 31Bravo


You called the idea of cockpit door locks stupid (in summary)

I said it would have prevented 9/11.

You say this is semantics?

And you have the nerve to call someone else stupid?

reply to post by 31Bravo


oh I don't hate them. I just ask if there is not a better way they could do their job that doesn't violate our civil liberties.

Illegal search and seizure indiscriminately is unconstitutional. We all learned that in school. I did. We are not experts on constitutional law but when you search EVERYONE there is a problem.

I say take a page from Israeli play books. Increased security TRAINING not big dumb toys we can circumvent as I will prove in 2 days.

Air marshals. Prescreening. Video surveillance of the entire area. Background checks. etc.

tap downs of everyone is just dumb. I have talked to a cop buddy of mine and he said he had to search about 30 people at one time and he said it was almost drone work after the 10th guy.

Imagine hundreds a day. Not to mention they will spread a pandemic one day since they can't afford to change gloves every time.

There are many reasons why you wouldn't go with either the most expensive option or the most intrusive.

I have to say, I like the idea of following the Israelis. Those people do NOT mess around.

Only problem with that is, if our federal agents followed suit from the Israelis, the people talking about becoming a police state would have a melt down.

reply to post by MegaMind

I never said you were stupid, guy. I was referring to the other member that snidely commented about putting a master lock on a cabin door would be the ultimate answer. I read your article and it seems to be logical.. although I think it's crap because we have been having our planes highjacked since the 80's so.. I think it's more of a comfort article for the flying consumer don't ya think?

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

oh I don't hate them. I just ask if there is not a better way they could do their job that doesn't violate our civil liberties.

Illegal search and seizure indiscriminately is unconstitutional. We all learned that in school. I did. We are not experts on constitutional law but when you search EVERYONE there is a problem.

I say take a page from Israeli play books. Increased security TRAINING not big dumb toys we can circumvent as I will prove in 2 days.

Air marshals. Prescreening. Video surveillance of the entire area. Background checks. etc.

tap downs of everyone is just dumb. I have talked to a cop buddy of mine and he said he had to search about 30 people at one time and he said it was almost drone work after the 10th guy.

Imagine hundreds a day. Not to mention they will spread a pandemic one day since they can't afford to change gloves every time.

There are many reasons why you wouldn't go with either the most expensive option or the most intrusive.

Again you are missing my point.. (in the most mannered way possible) what is your expert experience in the matter? I know I don't have any security expertise in this matter.. therefore I do not hate on the TSA. Again, you have a choice to fly.. if you don't want to go through TSA take a boat, charter a private jet. If you were forced to fly it would unconstitutional.

reply to post by 31Bravo


I have never met a sheep who complained as they were being sheared, or forced into the slaughterhouse.

What are the reasons for this invasion of privacy? Please don't say 9/11, because I don't buy that a few nutty muslims with boxcutters could take over 4 aircraft and turn them into flying bombs. Like people are going to sit there and cower in fear because somebody could maybe slice their arm. As if nobody could get a bag from the overhead bin and knock them silly while protecting themselves from what is basically a small razor blade.

Bomb sniffing dogs, I get. A bunch of rude, muffin-topped power-trippers who notoriously miss basic weapons, I don't understand. And yeah, I have had more than my fair share of hassles with the TSA, always when I had to put my daughter on a plane to see her father. The time when she had to go with a broken foot was the worst, because they assumed she was hiding a bomb in her cast....or in her bra, which the TSA agent was very aggressive about checking. I'll never forget the embarrassment she had to endure while I was surrounded by 4 nasty TSA pinheads who were getting off on a 16 year old having her breasts fondled in public.

I will never fly again, and neither will she. So tell me why you have no trouble with invasive searches with NO PROBABLE CAUSE, and being irradiated with unproven, dangerous machines. Explain how this keeps us "safe".

Originally posted by 31Bravo
reply to post by MegaMind

 

I never said you were stupid, guy. I was referring to the other member that snidely commented about putting a master lock on a cabin door would be the ultimate answer. I read your article and it seems to be logical.. although I think it's crap because we have been having our planes highjacked since the 80's so.. I think it's more of a comfort article for the flying consumer don't ya think?

The article was about the failure of the TSA to prevent box cutters from getting onto a plane and you think ...

it's more of a comfort article for the flying consumer

Look you wildly assaulted that other poster's intelligence about the door locks. I was just pointing out that it was not as absurd as you seem to think.

Also I don't think cockpit door locks are enough. Bomb sniffing dogs are good and non intrusive. They can smell bombs without having to sniff your crotch though they may want to

Metal detectors are good. Also non-invasive.

Dignity and privacy could remain in tact while still providing some measure of safety for the flying public.

They should also profile suspected terrorist and look for those that legitimately fit the profile. Nothing crazy but maybe a little more scrutiny. (this, btw, doesn't include profiling someone because they are part of the libertarian party or support Ron Paul). Instead it may include people who have recently traveled to the ME and so on .. Yeah I know not PC.

BTW love your avatar ...

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

I will never fly again, and neither will she. So tell me why you have no trouble with invasive searches with NO PROBABLE CAUSE, and being irradiated with unproven, dangerous machines. Explain how this keeps us "safe".

Yea yea bust out your ATS insult book by calling me a sheep/troll, whatever, because I don't jump on the hater wagon with you that's fine. Also, I'm fully aware of what the constitution says I am a criminology major, which in no way makes me an expert but I have seen them several times. I just don't think everything is a constitutional violation of my rights.. the patriot act is a violation and I recognize that so I'm not entirely ignorant as you are trying to make me look. I fought for the constitution that you so dearly throw in the face of anyone who goes against what you feel is wrong. I don't have any solutions except what you pointed out above in quote.. don't fly if you don't like it.

reply to post by 31Bravo

Again you are missing my point.. (in the most mannered way possible) what is your expert experience in the matter? I know I don't have any security expertise in this matter.. therefore I do not hate on the TSA. Again, you have a choice to fly.. if you don't want to go through TSA take a boat, charter a private jet. If you were forced to fly it would unconstitutional.

So if I am not an expert I cannot give my opinion on something I was schooled in since my indoctrination in American schools? Who the hell is an expert except the experts? I doubt they are ATS members here in an official manner to describe the necessity for their jobs.

I really don't appreciate that argument people make now a days. The American people lack the "expertise" to decide how their lives will be run. I am the master of my universe. I am an expert on my people´s will.

I can't afford a private jet. That's the point. This sets the precedent for saying that since most of us can't afford private jets (since we don't have al-Qaida amounts of money) we are a potential threat to ourselves.

Wouldn't a private jet be the next step in aerial terrorism? I say screen the guys that smuggle their stash of coc aine with them as they go to have brunch across the world and then bring back their trophy knife they bought at an auction if not their new inscribed desert eagle or samurai sword.

I am not forced to fly but since they offer that service it must be legal first. Any contract they make where I would agree to their terms and conditions must be legal first or else it is not a legal contract.

I can't sign something that says I must kill the passenger next to me in case of an emergency where weight is an issue for the aircraft. I can't agree to do something illegal like disclose all state secrets I know before leaving the country.

They can't make a contract in which I endorse illegal search and seizure. No one can until they amend the constitution in the prescribed way the law establishes. If not they are not a valid government entity. Not to mention they are a government entity which must follow the law in all cases with the exception of like martial law.
Are we in a state of martial law....yet? NO

so no mass searching of my fellow Americans IMO and by the statutes of our highest law.

reply to post by MegaMind

Like I said I wasn't insulting your intelligence.. all I wanted was for someone to actually engage in conversation with a point without a snarky "DUH." at the end of the comment. I gave you a star for the avatar comment, thanks

I have seen your posts in the past and I respect you so I appreciate the time you have taken to talk with me about this.

reply to post by 31Bravo


I am guilty of taking the civility out of conversations from time to time myself. Guess we all just need to cool it a little and respect each other a little more.



Its weird how sometimes in some threads I'll agree with someone and then in a different thread I feel like strangling that same person through my screen.

It's like they were smart what happened?

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

So if I am not an expert I cannot give my opinion on something I was schooled in since my indoctrination in American schools? Who the hell is an expert except the experts? I doubt they are ATS members here in an official manner to describe the necessity for their jobs.

Your opinion is fine as long as you accept the fact that your opinion is like butts, everyones got one. While I do not dismiss your opinion, an expert has had schooling which doesn't make him all supreme knowing god of security.. but I would believe him/her over you anyday.

I really don't appreciate that argument people make now a days. The American people lack the "expertise" to decide how their lives will be run. I am the master of my universe. I am an expert on my people´s will.

By that you mean anyone who doesn't think the way you do? Yea there alot of YOU people on ATS. You might be master in your universe you can have the TSA non existent there.. but back here on Earth we still have this "problem" of American airline security.

I can't afford a private jet. That's the point. This sets the precedent for saying that since most of us can't afford private jets (since we don't have al-Qaida amounts of money) we are a potential threat to ourselves.

Ok, take a train, or a bus.. the tickets are cheaper than an airline ticket.. you, sir/ma'am, are finding reasons to b*tch about the TSA. Try using your master of your universe mentality and change the way you travel..

Wouldn't a private jet be the next step in aerial terrorism? I say screen the guys that smuggle their stash of coc aine with them as they go to have brunch across the world and then bring back their trophy knife they bought at an auction if not their new inscribed desert eagle or samurai sword.

... No.

I am not forced to fly but since they offer that service it must be legal first. Any contract they make where I would agree to their terms and conditions must be legal first or else it is not a legal contract.

That is irrational.. since the trip of the vehicle is in the air its kind of like international waters.. whose jurisdiction owns the skies?

I can't sign something that says I must kill the passenger next to me in case of an emergency where weight is an issue for the aircraft. I can't agree to do something illegal like disclose all state secrets I know before leaving the country.

Ok?

They can't make a contract in which I endorse illegal search and seizure. No one can until they amend the constitution in the prescribed way the law establishes. If not they are not a valid government entity. Not to mention they are a government entity which must follow the law in all cases with the exception of like marshal law.

Again.. don't fly.

reply to post by 31Bravo


1. so you would just follow blindly as our glorious leaders strip away our civil liberties one by one. I wonder what history would teach us of following blindly what a few goons decide is best for a whole people. (insert your own example of how tyranny developed in any part of the world or in any time) There are more than I have time to type.

2. I don't mean people who don't agree or think like me. I only follow what people who knew allot more than you or I laid down as law following the consensus of the people they represented. You know....experts. oh and your problem of airline security doesn't get solved by opting for either the most expensive toy or the most intrusive search.

3. I am not looking for a reason to bitch. If you are trying to be polite then that one got away huh. I am not some f-ing brat that doesn't know his head from his ass. You are speaking to an adult that has not insulted you ...yet
I can't swim across the Atlantic. That doesn't mean I can't use what millions of people use in a way that is not illegal.

4. yes.
nakedlaw.avvo.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

5.The government doesn't own the skies or anything really. The country does and guess what WE are the country. We decide how they regulate their jurisdiction. AKA following the constitution.

6. ok we agree you can't make me agree to do something illegal by legal means.

7.again. I will since they offered and took my money. Now do it legally.

oh and as far as using other means of transportation.

TSA May Use Body Scans for Trains, Boats

www.frumforum.com...

According to an article at The Hill, Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano is considering applying security measures to trains, boats, and public transportation.
TSA mulling security measures on trains, boats, public transportation
“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

www.examiner.com...

Next step for tight security could be trains, boats, metro

thehill.com...

edit:
this is your future. I will not let people destroy my country and make a new one in the image of some cheap dictatorship without "bitching" as you put it.

Originally posted by MegaMind

Lovely - won't it be so much fun!! Getting felt up everywhere you go.

You say no it will never happen - really? what about the prom?

A lot of people got felt up at my prom, and the TSA wasn't even a governmental wet dream way back then.

bravo...you probably served...am I correct?

did you not swear an oath to protect the constitution?

Are you doing so now by advocating the surrender of American´s 4th amendment rights?

we bitch and are whiney so we don't deserve our highest law?

you take lightly the oaths you make?

I don't. I pledged my allegiance to the flag and to the republic too many times to just say ..."nah Obama knows best, screw what my people want."

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
I have never met a sheep who complained as they were being sheared, or forced into the slaughterhouse.

What are the reasons for this invasion of privacy? Please don't say 9/11, because I don't buy that a few nutty muslims with boxcutters could take over 4 aircraft and turn them into flying bombs. Like people are going to sit there and cower in fear because somebody could maybe slice their arm. As if nobody could get a bag from the overhead bin and knock them silly while protecting themselves from what is basically a small razor blade.

You can't have it both ways, lady. If people are such sheep, then why wouldn't you think they'd just sit there while terrorists made their move? See how truly discerning minds work?

Bomb sniffing dogs, I get. A bunch of rude, muffin-topped power-trippers who notoriously miss basic weapons, I don't understand. And yeah, I have had more than my fair share of hassles with the TSA, always when I had to put my daughter on a plane to see her father. The time when she had to go with a broken foot was the worst, because they assumed she was hiding a bomb in her cast....or in her bra, which the TSA agent was very aggressive about checking. I'll never forget the embarrassment she had to endure while I was surrounded by 4 nasty TSA pinheads who were getting off on a 16 year old having her breasts fondled in public.

Oh noes!! Your daughter had her cast searched! The poor thing. Oh noes!! She got all "grr!! Look at my teenage embarrassed face because this strange lady's hand is near my chest!! Mommie! Are you getting all this on your iPhone so I can post on my facebook wall all this teenage embarrassed indignity?!"

ROFL. Lady, you are exactly who I had in mind when I explained how insufferably spoiled we are now as Americans. I bet your daughter was just fine after that whole event, wasn't she? I bet somehow, amid all that horror and personal strife, she still had the courage to find a way to move on.