Best Swedish UFO Sighting Yet?(HD)

Originally posted by NeoVain

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I think there is more than enough evidence to move this to the hoax bin.

Otherwise the lazy single post readers will keep popping in declaring it as real.

If you are convinced it is a hoax, why are you still here? There are some of us that are not convinced by any of the silly debunking attempts so far, but on the contrary... believe it to still be real. Maybe it is you that ought to move to the hoax bin?

What about this video makes you certain that it is real?

What evidentiary claims can you bring forward that have repeatable real world implications?

From what I have seen, the UFO in the video behaves erratically. This is not even a matter of opinion, as it is clear in the footage. The erratic movement is consistent with video editing technique. I would ask another question.

Which is more probable; The erratic behavior of the UFO is because the UFO is a hoax using known editing techniques that create the erratic effects shown in the footage, or the UFO behaves erratically for an unknown reason that coincidentally line up with known video editing flaws?

Since the little tag under your name denotes you to be a "Shillstomper Scientist", I am going to appeal to your scientific rationality to address my questions.

reply to post by NeoVain

If you are convinced it is a hoax, why are you still here? There are some of us that are not convinced by any of the silly debunking attempts so far, but on the contrary... believe it to still be real. Maybe it is you that ought to move to the hoax bin?

Yes....but not very many of you!

Could you explain why you think the "UFO" skips when seen in slow motion appearing from behind the girls head?

As to the "silly debunking attempts"....I would have to say that having seen the attempt of the so called "video expert" to verify this video, well the term "silly verifying attempts" springs to mind.

That being said, you have your right to your opinion, as does everyone else.....and I would die defending that right.

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by NeoVain

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I think there is more than enough evidence to move this to the hoax bin.

Otherwise the lazy single post readers will keep popping in declaring it as real.

If you are convinced it is a hoax, why are you still here? There are some of us that are not convinced by any of the silly debunking attempts so far, but on the contrary... believe it to still be real. Maybe it is you that ought to move to the hoax bin?

What about this video makes you certain that it is real?

What evidentiary claims can you bring forward that have repeatable real world implications?

From what I have seen, the UFO in the video behaves erratically. This is not even a matter of opinion, as it is clear in the footage. The erratic movement is consistent with video editing technique. I would ask another question.

Which is more probable; The erratic behavior of the UFO is because the UFO is a hoax using known editing techniques that create the erratic effects shown in the footage, or the UFO behaves erratically for an unknown reason that coincidentally line up with known video editing flaws?

Since the little tag under your name denotes you to be a "Shillstomper Scientist", I am going to appeal to your scientific rationality to address my questions.

Except it doesnt behave erratically. And even if it did, who says a UFO does not behave eratically normally without edited footage? And the video where it appears to disappear behind the girsl head is already adressed, that clip is a hoax in itself as it does not happen in the original (that part is even adressed by the expert).

And i am not certain it is real, i just have not found any plausible disproof yet rather than desperate people which seem to have an agenda trying to debunk this clip as if their life depended on it. Still no cigar though.

reply to post by UnumSecretum


Excellent critique and explanation. Good work, look forward to more of your posts.

Originally posted by NeoVain
Except it doesnt behave erratically.

So your response is to deny the obvious. There is no debating that the UFO behaves erratically. It does. To say that it doesn't is to actually spit in the face of logical discourse. How can you call yourself a scientist when you are unable to even accurately address results that are staring you straight in the face?

I am serious. Are you just being obtuse? How can you sit there and claim that the UFO doesn't dart around erratically in several parts of the video? I am actually startled by the idea that you are unable to see it. It is like I am having a conversation with someone that doesn't understand the meaning of the word erratic.

And even if it did, who says a UFO does not behave eratically normally without edited footage?

Oh! So, in your eyes, even if the UFO behaved in a way that screamed edited footage, you are of the opinion that it is more likely a genuine craft over a hoax? That is the opinion you are taking? We don't know how a UFO should react, so this erratic behavior that is known to be common in hoaxes just might coincidentally be the way a UFO moves. You are losing scientific credibility very quickly, Mr. Scientist.

And the video where it appears to disappear behind the girsl head is already adressed, that clip is a hoax in itself as it does not happen in the original (that part is even adressed by the expert).

I do not even need to address the video you claim to be a hoax. Just look at the video that was posted in your OP. It is clearly moving erratically.

And i am not certain it is real, i just have not found any plausible disproof yet rather than desperate people which seem to have an agenda trying to debunk this clip as if their life depended on it. Still no cigar though.

edit on 4-4-2012 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)

You have certainly lost credibility as a scientist with this post, my friend. There have been multiple plausible explanations more probable than it being an actual UFO. You are simply someone that wants this to be real, so in your mind it is real. No logical discourse nor evidentiary claims can divert you from your assumption based on ignorance and belief.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

reply to post by Furbs


Congrats on fitting more nonsense in one post than i have ever seen before

Still, makes little sense for you to be here if you believe it to be a hoax, doesn´t it?

Move along now.

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by Furbs

 

Congrats on fitting more nonsense in one post than i have ever seen before

Still, makes little sence for you to be here if you believe it to be a hoax, doeasn´t it?

Move along now.

So, intellectual discourse is 'nonsense'. Just because you don't understand what is being said, doesn't make a statement 'nonsense'. I can use smaller words if you are having trouble with the big ones, just tell me where you are having a hard time and I will help you understand.

Why do you assume that my interest in this thread wanes because I believe it to be a hoax? It makes perfect sense for someone to remain in the thread if they believe it to be a hoax. I would dare say especially if they believe it to be a hoax. Why would someone denying ignorance allow something as foolish as this video to go on being discussed without continuing to mount more evidence of it being a hoax?

reply to post by Furbs

Why would someone denying ignorance allow something as foolish as this video to go on being discussed without continuing to mount more evidence of it being a hoax?

Got you. Yes, you just went into my trap.
Thanks for admitting your agenda, while showing how little you care about free speech, trying to deny people with a genuine interest in this topic to discuss it. Consider yourself stomped

Do you really believe you have the power or even the right to deny people with a genuine interest to discuss topics such as this?

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by Furbs

 

Why would someone denying ignorance allow something as foolish as this video to go on being discussed without continuing to mount more evidence of it being a hoax?

Got you. Yes, you just went into my trap.

Thanks for admitting your agenda, while showing how little you care about free speech, trying to deny people with a genuine interest in this topic to discuss it. Consider yourself stomped

Do you really believe you have the power or even the right to deny people with a genuine interest to discuss topics such as this?

As a member, I have to step in and say that nobody has denied anyone their ability to voice thier opinions here. Plus, there is no "free speech" on ATS. This is a private site. Anyways, people can post anywhere they want, as long as it is w/in the T&C. The only one I see attempting to deny people their right to voice their opinion here is you, who keeps telling people to go away and stop posting on this thread.

.....just sayn'.....


at the end of the day, either we want truth, or we want confirmation of belief. I would hope that we are all seeking truth, even if that truth may not be confirmation or not what we hoped for....

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by Furbs

 

Why would someone denying ignorance allow something as foolish as this video to go on being discussed without continuing to mount more evidence of it being a hoax?

Got you. Yes, you just went into my trap.

Thanks for admitting your agenda, while showing how little you care about free speech, trying to deny people with a genuine interest in this topic to discuss it. Consider yourself stomped

Do you really believe you have the power or even the right to deny people with a genuine interest to discuss topics such as this?

I gladly admit 'my agenda' is to keep foolishness like this from being spread on ATS unchecked.

Am I somehow keeping you from speaking about this video? Am I somehow keeping others with an interest in this video from discussing it? Actually, if memory serves, you are the one telling people to get out of the thread.

EDIT:

I GOT NINJA'D!

Here's my take,

I think it is a hoax due to the camera filming position, he never points the camera directly at the "UFO". He is always shooting the ATV and never moves the camera to film the flying saucer that he clearly says he sees.

If filming just random scenery and something catches your eyes, you will naturally move or point the camera in that direction, but you can clearly see that he never acknowledges the "UFO" with the camera, so I think he added it after the shoot.

My 2 cents

Sirric

Originally posted by sirric
Here's my take,

I think it is a hoax due to the camera filming position, he never points the camera directly at the "UFO". He is always shooting the ATV and never moves the camera to film the flying saucer that he clearly says he sees.

If filming just random scenery and something catches your eyes, you will naturally move or point the camera in that direction, but you can clearly see that he never acknowledges the "UFO" with the camera, so I think he added it after the shoot.

My 2 cents

Sirric

Valid point, this bothered me as well for awhile. However, the reason for this might be that he does really only see the craft in the beginning of the clip (when he starts yelling at his sister, when it is still around the trees), later loosing track of it thus not following it with the camera. Of course later on when he actually looked at the footage, it was easier to see where it went by closer examination.

Either that or the camera was mounted in some way in a forward direction, but i find this less likely.

So for me, the first of these is the only explanation that would be plausible enough, if we are still to assume the footage might be real. And it is certainly plausible enough.

Another thing that bothered me is that he didn´t zoom in on the craft (analog zoom), which at least i would do if i actually saw the craft first hand, given enough time. Although it seems this all happened over a very short time period, and the sudden shock might have prevented him from thinking about that before it was gone. Either that or the camera didn´t have zoom capabilities.

reply to post by NeoVain


Now granted if the camera was mounted, then it would be more believable to me. I can't assess the camera's state of being in this clip, It looks like it could have been mounted on a pole attached to the front of the sled, which would account for him not tracking the UFO.

Could I believe this is was a genuine video capture of a UFO, yes. Do I believe it is, No.
Only my gut to really guide me here.... Oh and if the actual filmier came out and said he hoaxed it...lol

Sirric

The simple truth is it's already been proven a hoax by people who actually do know what they are talking about earlier in the thread.

The flaw in the match moving (motion matching) is proof of fraud. Ignoring that won't make it go away. Defending things already proven false is an exercise in futility.

I keep looking at these and always hoping to one day open a thread and see the real thing myself. This sort of nonsense is only driving people away and adds nothing to our knowledge, nor does it get us closer to truth.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum

I only listen to other peoples opinions when they have something constructive to say and no, I am not associated with this video in any way, shape or form. If it is a hoax, and it MIGHT be, then I do agree with un-professional-video anayliser man in that it is a very well done hoax.

Sorry that reply was for the OP not for you

Having worked with cgi before, my first initial impression was (and still is) that this is fake.

And now after learning the guy does video work in After Effects.. well that just confirms my initial reaction.

He obviously knows how to do masking in AE, as evident from his "predator" videos. So that explains how he gets the "ufo" to go behind the trees, and yet the "ufo" scaling is off. I believe someone else pointed this out, but the scale of the craft is slightly off. It stays the same size regardless of position.

One thing I know about tricks in After Effects... if you want to try and make something look as real as possible.. keep it as short as possible. This way there is less for people to pick apart.

Note: I just went back and watched it again. It's definitely cgi.

reply to post by RooskiZombi
You almost had me,,

Scroll through the thread guys, there is a video in here debunking this completely. It 100% is CGI.

Either way I think this is a cool video even after knowing it's definitely fake. For the most part he did a decent job with it, but the smallest flaws can give you away with things like this.

If you believe this video, then I have some old videos when I was learning how to edit.

Has me throwing fireballs, yes fireballs.

I'll accept donations for my amazing ability only performed on video clips no longer than 50 secs long, promise!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The flaw in the match moving (motion matching) is proof of fraud. Ignoring that won't make it go away. Defending things already proven false is an exercise in futility.

It's simply disheartening to have people clutch so desperately at something and ignore the obvious damning evidence. Unless it's all just trolling, and in that case it's just tiresome. Either way, this thread has turned into a huge vortex that continues to suck the enthusiasm out of this forum and this website.

So tiring.