Animal abuser registry proposed in Michigan

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why, so you can chew your fingernails and live in fear?

No, so some poster can not recognize irony.

At any rate, I said.....'will scare you', not ' make me live in fear'.

At any rate, fear is one of those things that makes you feel alive. One of those things..

It would seem that you fear being in close proximity to a person that might kick a dog, judging by your support of the bill. Don't fear someone that would kick your door in and rape your family, fear someone that was put on a govt database because the SPCA said that he was keeping a pig in a sty.

ETA: This post was made in error. See mea culpa two posts below.

What a great idea

How much will that cost the state?

How is michigan doing on paying the bills anyways?

It does not surprise me that this is a republican idea.

After all we need to focus on everything but the economy.

I have a cat, dog, and fish. I love animals, but this law making crap is getting way out of hand..........

If you support this, then I do not want to hear you complain when other "laws" that have no real effect on the betterment of this country is introduced...........

No more laws

Is'nt there already an animal cruelty law?

Originally posted by TKDRL
I am against all "registries". They go against the very notions of law that we are supposed to have. Once you pay your debt to society, the debt should be cleared....

edit on Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:54:38 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Sorry for mischaracterizing your stand in my last quote!
I got you mixed up with another poster.

I am against the databases too. Just think that human victims deserve more concern than animals.

My apologies to you.

reply to post by butcherguy


My support of the bill? I don't support any registry. I also don't support having a permanent criminal record being available to anyone outside the court systems. I think maybe we got our wires crossed

Yeah I see from your last post, that is exactly what heppaened

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by butcherguy

 

My support of the bill? I don't support any registry. I also don't support having a permanent criminal record being available to anyone outside the court systems. I think maybe we got our wires crossed

I definitely got my wires crossed. I figured that out afterwards. Sorry 'bout that.

Wait until
they get a registry
going for ATS posters,
then you people supporting
this crap would brighten up...
Better yet, lets chip the pedos
and dog kickers!!!

Man what a wonderful world

reply to post by Miraj


How would that help you any? Say you found out 5 people that lived within 20 miles of you were sex offendors. Would that change anything? That would change nothing at all for me, I raise my girls right, I give them every possible tool I know of to defend themselves reguardless. Signed them up for martial arts, they know how to shoot. So far. At 11 and 13, that is about all I can do.

The only thing this crap does is make us live in fear, and act out of our reptile brains. Paranoia rampant, focusing on our neighbors, rather than focussing on the people that rob us blind, the people that make laws, but do not follow them. Laws are for the pessants that bow to authority, you got money, you are more than likely gonna get away with murder.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You honestly wouldn't want to know if your next door neighbor had a tendency to rape children?
I know it seems unfair to them, but what if something happened that could have been prevented with that knowledge?

No
I have no kids
I have stuff though
I would like to know if my neighbor has a tendency to steal stuff.

Freedom and equality...there is not one without the other.
So first it was the worst sex offenders to be on a list...the predators..the child rapists.
Then it was..ok, any and all sex offenses, even stupid low felony crimes and such
now its ok..now we want animal abusers.
We are at a point where we see the beginning of the trend. I say knock it back to the initial intent, the worst predators, but open it up to the worst predators of sex and violent repeat offenders..and never allow it to move from that point.
And even to those, let a qualified therapist determine individually when a person is no longer a threat to the community...
but to say in 40 years that we need to track every felon of every level for the rest of their life, to isolate them and not make their integration with community is somehow desirable..and meanwhile make more and more things felonies that we do today,..
I just can't get over the insanity of that mindset..the absolute absurdity.
Forever, you will be known as Pee Pants...because you pee'd your pants when you were 9 years old...and you know...when your 65 years old, you might do it again..people have to be warned forever about everything you have ever done...

mind is spinning..and now people are cheering the expansion into other area...hoo-frikkin-ray..this should stop crime..mhmm.


Time to turn the flag upside down.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
Wait until
they get a registry
going for ATS posters,
then you people supporting
this crap would brighten up...
Better yet, lets chip the pedos
and dog kickers!!!

Man what a wonderful world

edit on 20-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

Lets chip all felons, they may do it again
Lets chip anyone whom has any misdemeanors...they are felons in the making..preventative measure.
Lets chip everyone...
Not to worry...if it doesn't sound good, someone will point out a synthetic panic event to make it easy to accept.

(yes, I understood your sarcasm...just added to it)

Part of the problem with the whole registry idea is public brainwashing the average American is so brainwashed that they cannot believe simple facts. The idea that sex offenders (and soon animal abusers) are MORE likely to re-offend is indoctrinated into most people when in fact the opposite is true. Sex offenders are actually among the least likely to re-offend.

www.livescience.com...
The high recidivism rate among sex offenders is repeated so often that it is usually accepted as truth, but in fact recent studies show that the recidivism rates for sex offenses is not unusually high. According to a U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics study ("Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994"), just five percent of sex offenders followed for three years after their release from prison in 1994 were arrested for another sex crime. A study released in 2003 by the Bureau found that within three years, 3.3 percent of the released child molesters were arrested again for committing another sex crime against a child. Three to five percent is hardly a high repeat offender rate.

In the largest and most comprehensive study ever done of prison recidivism, the Justice Department found that sex offenders were in fact less likely to reoffend than other criminals.

So a guy that lives next door to you may be a convicted murderer and you would never know. But if he was 20 with a 16 year old girlfriend he could be a convicted rapist that has to register as a sex offender.

Originally posted by virraszto
Ok, I just woke up so I hope what I say makes sense. On one hand, I think this is a great idea. On the other hand, a thought jumped into my head when I first read this. What constitutes animal abuse?

I am VERY strong proponent of punishing, fining and even jailing animal abusers, there are horrible people out there who do horrible things to animals. In fact, it makes me very often much more sick than reading about crime and violence where people are involved.

There was just a very bad case last week in Germany, you know i am a grown "man" but reading about the details of this case which involved a cat MADE ME SICK to my stomach and it deeply disturbed me. I wont go into details.

BUT: I also know that some animal "activists" and so called "animal lovers" can act very over the top and can often lose any sense of reality or what is "just" or not. The reason is that many animal lovers (which i + wife certainly are!) are often "judging" very emotional, much more so than compared to when it comes to violence where people might be involved.

Example:

We are HUUUUUUGE cat lovers, in fact our cats here rule our house and life Back before we lived in a rather small apartment (ok, it was really tiny)...but it had a very nice yard and our cats always could and still can go outside and basically can do whatever they want.

We called this person because we wanted to get kittens (back then when we still didn't have any)....and this person INSISTED on the phone she cannot give us the kitten since she told us the kittens need their "own room" in the house. (Which is ridiculous on so many levels).

Just as a side-note..we live in a bigger apartment now, we actually do have a spare room now and the cats can still go inside/outside the house whenever they wish....needless to say the cats are hardly ever in the "cat room"..in fact they spend time where we are, most of the times on our laps or PC keyboards.

Just to say that some animal "lovers" can be a little off in their heads and i can see there being problems with such people judging other people. This person above would probably think we are "harming" the cats by not having an extra room for them in the house etc....or another person might come and accuse someone of cruelty because the cats are not neutered...or because they might have bugs occasionally. (Which, by the way happens quite often if your cats our outside most of the time). And i fear that such people might judge other people above and beyond any common sense because of such stupid reasons.

reply to post by SaturnFX


It is a step in the right direction. So sick of people who are worried about their private perversions getting found out about they are willing to allow helpless beast to suffer for it. I can see if you have some weird sex things that people should not know about - you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in those cases but animal abuse? No I don't think you should have any expectation of privacy in those cases. I wouldn't mind seeing their faces on a bill board. I think it should affect their future relationships and employment. I would not want to hire an animal abuser and I would certainly appreciate knowing if my daughter is going with one They are not my kind of people.

Originally posted by ohyouknow
As an animal lover and an animal rescuer I think this is a brilliant idea. I also live in Michigan and have seen and heard of horrible, horrible things done to animals just because it's amusing to someone else. Just like the sex offender list I think that this should effect other parts of these people's lives. More so when it comes to being with children too. If these people have no problem harming a defenseless animal I doubt they have any issue harming a child.

Bologna (#?).

Or show us a pictures of your shelter-rescued animals. I'd rather see shelter animals adopted while giving abusers 2nd chances rather than letting them languish in shelters while idiots presume to judge others on whatever innuendo someone else got -em on. And no most abuse isn't hostile. its things like people getting arrested or other crisis and their animals are stuck at home with no food, etc. You're kicking them when their down and the animals suffer from your road to hell being paved with such good intent.

who's on the no fly list
whistle blowers
children
people with similar sounding names to suspicious people

how do you get off of this list if you are innocent?

No one really knows......

so
how did the underwear bomber get on the the plane
list maker government put him on the plane
why?
to justify the no fly list

how did the hijackers get into the country when they were on lists of terrorists
the government let them in
why
to justify the no fly list

don't get me wrong
I love a good cheeze burgher
I realize Flossie gets it in the last chapter
I realize tomatoes died to make the ketchup
I will be worm food someday too

I just don't think a list controlled by the government is a constructive way to fix the problem

reply to post by reitze


And part of that frustration comes from having been accused of abuse by an adoption-center once. It was because I had a dog that was hit by a car and burred it myself. No "official record" of what happened. I owned that beautiful dog after getting him from a shelter for 11 years. But that # wanted the name of the vet where he was buried and because there wasn't one put me on some # list. I did get a dog from another shelter. But then also got a knock at the door by a cop. The officer found the new dog to be well cared for and the pictures of the prior dog satisfactory he had a loving home. But still what a total inappropriate aggravation --- AND an invasion of my "castle".

This sort of registry is absurd. It will result in more shelter-animal deaths and very few saves. Give them liberty not death by prohibitions on ownership. This dog would be dead if it weren't for his adoption... and my prior dog would have had 5 years less life, and the dog before that woulda had 7 years less, and the dog before that 11 years. Consider this animal's joy as an example of what such a law would kill:

PETA 'killed more than 95 per cent of adoptable dogs and cats in its care last year' shocking new report says In 2011, government report obtained by nonprofit organization claims 1,911 animals killed
Only 34 adopted in same time span

www.abovetopsecret.com...
so much for the list of adoptable pets



there is no easy answer

The government has enough power as it is.
I don't like these permanent shame lists.
Why not just make them wear an scarlet AA on their clothes?

If the crime is not being punished enough, increase the sentence, but let people have a clean slate once they have served their time.

Why am I not surprised that in a state like Michigan, suffering from high unemployment and other major economic difficulties, people support spending the limited cash that the government has on a pet abuser registry? Wouldn't that money be better spent providing for the people first?

reply to post by chiefsmom


Noble intent, poor execution.

I have always disagreed with registries, even the sex offender registry, because it forces punishment on the convicted that was not decreed upon them at their sentencing. It also has the potential to severely and permanently damage the life of a person convicted over such things as misunderstandings, overzealous officers, blatant innocence, ETC. Seriously, I see this as just another attempt of the state to gather revenue. There are far more efficient and/or productive ways of handling these matters.

Unfortunately, like everything else in our "Justice System"....this measure is designed to punish and enslave the convicted as opposed to reforming the individual. Truly...how does this law help reform the convicted for the better? Sadly -- a reformed, positively changed former convict hurts the bottom line of the out of control prison-for-profit industry in this country.

This could be a wonderful law if the intentions behind it are noble. I don't think that is the case. Someone, somewhere, is going to get their pockets lined if/when this becomes law.

This is a wonderful idea. Thank you for posting the link to the news story and bringing it up. I am in Kentucky and I hope that this is an idea that will catch on here too. In fact now that I know about it I will be suggesting it to local legislators.