[Updated] Soldier tells it like it is (and gets investigated for disloyalty)

It's good to actually read a logical description of what troops are really up against in Iraq.

Why We Cannot Win

Before I begin, let me state that I am a soldier currently deployed in Iraq, I am not an armchair quarterback. Nor am I some politically idealistic and na�ve young soldier, I am an old and seasoned Non-Commissioned Officer with nearly 20 years under my belt. Additionally, I am not just a soldier with a muds-eye view of the war, I am in Civil Affairs and as such, it is my job to be aware of all the events occurring in this country and specifically in my region.

It's not a long piece, so click and read. It speaks for itself.

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UPDATE:

Al Lorentz under investigation for disloyalty. If charged and convicted he could get 20 years.

An Army Reserve staff sergeant who last week wrote a critical analysis of the United States' prospects in Iraq now faces possible disciplinary action for disloyalty and insubordination. If charges are bought and the officer is found guilty, he could face 20 years in prison. It would be the first such disloyalty prosecution since the Vietnam War.

The essay that sparked the military investigation is titled "Why We Cannot Win" and was posted Sept. 20 on the conservative antiwar Web site LewRockwell.com. Written by Al Lorentz, a non-commissioned officer from Texas with nearly 20 years in the Army who is serving in Iraq, the essay offers a bleak assessment of America's chances for success in Iraq.

[edit on 4-10-2004 by cargo]

[edit on 4-10-2004 by John bull 1]

First of all you are in Civil Affairs .... if you would quit pushing a pencil and and stop looking at Iraq instead of being there. I am deployed in IRaq through Current Affairs, WHAT THE HELL ??? Anyways ... people in IRaw are all bad if they are not they can get the hell out Declare Iraq a battleground from now on every battle that is waged should be fought there ... That is a pretty legitemate thought. What else are they goign to do with it. Live there no they are goign to wage war there. NOone could possibly live in that place and be happy. therefore Tell them to get the hell out ... Problem solved.

That is extremely well thought out, reasoned, and supported....

props to that soldier....

It echoes what I've been saying, that the administration is too concerned with being "sensitive" to win this war. There are methods to erode this martyrdom mentality, but they refuse to employ them, for fear of world opinion. World opinion is already in the basement.... They came in with almost NO plan of how to deal with the aftermath that they KNEW would be the situation, and are still floundering around on what to do about it.

It also sounds eerily like other soldiers' comments, about another guerilla war, never claimed as such....

There are still so many think that US still can win be committing more troops (reservists) and more money for CheneyCo. It is Vietnam all over again. US never learn from its own costly mistakes? Just Pathetic.

That is one thing that we will not let happen again you are an illiterate, or just plain ... YOUNG ... and do not know anything about the Korean War. Korean war .... WOW .... this blows my mind ... ... ... WOW .... anyways ...WOW ... ...

when will pepole learn nobody wins a war.
even soldiers with 20 years still go off and fight??? the mind boggles

Whatever gets posted by bet555

huh?

Gazrok,

I hope that soldier does not decide to run for president in the future.

And this is not a joke.

My husband just found out two days ago that a friend and a soldier station at the base he works at died in Iraq during the bombings in one of the cities he was a Major.

When you read letters like that it tells you that at least our troops are not blind to the issues in Iraq right now. I wonder how many other lives are needed for our administration and our politicians to understand that whatever they are doing in Iraq is not working.

This guy is a turncoat scumbag regardless of how many years he spent in uniform. He is also an international publicity hound with political ambitions.

I would hate to have this guy watching my back. This kind of speech during wartime is indefensible and I have nothing but contempt for him. He should not be deployed anywhere in any capacity.

www.google.com...

I can understand the soldier expressing what is needed to get the job done. But that might not necessarily mean he would not also support the withdrawal of all forces from Iraq. I guess that just comes from knowing they are there for the long haul and as a result their logic is directed at what needs to be done to get the mission completed.

This is just another case of the leaders ignoring the man on the ground, who has the experience first hand. The leaders are definately not ignorant to what is happening on the ground, but choose to ignore it.

It must be very frustrating to know exactly what is going on in Iraq and why, then have to sit there and hear politicians lie.

Here is another "logical opinion" from your "soldier":

by Al Lorentz: Without putting too fine a point on it, illegal aliens are criminals by virtue of their being in America without having gone through legal channels. As such, they are not citizens or taxpayers and should be of course rounded up and returned home (politely but firmly). Better still, we should have a sufficient border patrol to make them at least have to put in some good effort to get here. As it is today, thousands of miles of border are so thinly patrolled as to be virtually open. Instead of this though, we not only allow illegal aliens to stay, we actually allow them to draw on certain benefits of our society! What is next, do we grant amnesty for men who escape from prison? I guess though that this is to be expected from a nation which re-elects a convicted perjuring felon to the highest office.

www.cptexas.org...

He is of course referring to Bill Clinton in that quote. So, my liberal friends on ATS, does he speak for you or not?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This guy is a turncoat scumbag regardless of how many years he spent in uniform. He is also an international publicity hound with political ambitions.

I would hate to have this guy watching my back. This kind of speech during wartime is indefensible and I have nothing but contempt for him. He should not be deployed anywhere in any capacity.

www.google.com...

Oh yeah, I forgot, your actually fighting in Iraq instead of getting all of your info from Fox.

Why don't you try to invalidate his arguments instead of just insulting him and his thoughts. There have been plenty of high ranking generals who left the campaign echoing the same things he has said.

Even some Republicans are saying Bush isn't being up front with the American people as to what's really going on.

Sheesh, I haven't seen one intelligent statement come out of your posts so far about this war, and your support of it has nothing to do with it. I meet plenty of supporters who can articulate their thoughts without calling anyone who goes contrary to your line of thinking a scumbag idiot.

Re-enlist...please...for the love of God re-enlist. Just because you served Nam doesn't mean you know the first thing about what's going on in Iraq beyond your Bush press release re-hashes.

Its not the fault of some soldiers that they can't be mindless supporters of this conflict like you are. Or did the recently declassified (by a Republican no doubt) intelligence report on Iraq make it seem like your opinion is valid on this subject.

I hope things go as well as possible, but if all the indicators that are out there showing the stupidity in which this war is being waged prove true, I hope you come back with the same arguments. Hurry, Brit Hume is on, you don't want to miss the fair and balanced news you seem to rely on.

[edit on 113030p://333 by Weller]

Originally posted by zcheng
There are still so many think that US still can win be committing more troops (reservists) and more money for CheneyCo. It is Vietnam all over again. US never learn from its own costly mistakes? Just Pathetic.

Most people supporting this war weren't effected by Vietnam, zcheng;
they are the sons and daughters of those who weasled out of going. Hence the apathy.



[edit on 22-9-2004 by bushblows]

Originally posted by cargo
Soldier in Iraq: Tells it like it is

"Soldier in Iraq"

It is good to see all opinions on the war, especially from those fighting in it.
It is bad that it has to happen.

Sad and unfortunate as it is, that is reality, one that even though televised, still isn't enough to show how terrible society can be. Why, for what reasons do we choose to remain selectively ignorant of views different from our own?

We are not any better than the other, none of us have any power or control over the other rightfully. God given or by power of majority. Our free will is ours. To use or abuse it is our choice, and with that comes the problems. Not everyone is mature or responcible enough to handle such a gift, and fewer yet are those who deserve not what is taken for granted.

Originally posted by bushblows

Most people supporting this war weren't effected by Vietnam, zcheng;
they are the sons and daughters of those who weasled out of going. Hence the apathy.
[edit on 22-9-2004 by bushblows]

When you can put a money amount for the life of a soldier, it is absolutely Pathetic.

Do you see the news that the wife of the second deheaded American is asking for donations for her daughters college fund. I do not see the rage and sorrowness for the loss of a loved one, only money. Sad and dispicable indeed.

Advisor, what happened to Medic? I remember seeing a few posts asking that question but maybe I missed an answer. Please tell me he is ok...

EDIT: His site appears to say he is currently ok.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by cargo]

And Another! You guys will love this one!

by Al Lorentz: Specifically, we need to draft, right now, the children of every politician in our federal government and every executive in our military industrial complex. We must also draft the wife or husband of each politician and defense contractor.

They will be put into frontline combat units in the most dangerous areas. They could, for instance, be used as shock troops in operations like Najaf and Fallujah. After all, if it's good enough for our kids and spouses, it's got to be good enough for theirs.

www.antiwar.com...

Seems in many threads I have heard you guys say these things, so this guy does speak for you! Thank God this guy doesn't have an ax to grind !


[edit on 9/22/04 by Seth Bullock]

Maybe We Do Need a Draft

Let me begin by saying that I'm against a general draft for a number of reasons. Conscription makes free citizens into slaves and the property of the state. A draft also gives the state a large standing army, and having such an army creates too great a temptation for politicians to use it.

However, I find it patently un-American and unpatriotic to place the burden of war on a small stratum of society. I'm not speaking of just the actual blood and guts fighting, but the entire burden of war.

War is a sad event that, in a great nation like the United States, should be shared equally.

First, there is the issue of whose children shall actually go and do the fighting and dying. I notice that the children of our political elite are not here with us in Iraq. I think we need a rather selective draft to fix this obvious oversight.

EDIT: Sorry, you did provide a link

[edit on 22-9-2004 by cargo]

Yes, Gradyphilpott, we will PAY you to go to war again. Your comments have reached the point where I really want to see you proven right.

SethBullock, I'm assuming you are resigned to the idea that anything supporting the war in Iraq is true and anything against it is false.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
SethBullock, I'm assuming you are resigned to the idea that anything supporting the war in Iraq is true and anything against it is false.

Not at all. I am saying that this guy is most certainly politically motivated in his articles and I for one will not take his word. I am sure there are real soldiers over there unhappy with the way things are, just as there are many who would say they support this war fully.

If I were to post a link to an article from a soldier that says what we are doing is right, ask yourself honestly, how long would it take for you to lable him a "brainwashed bushie". Bet that could be measured in nanoseconds.

But hey, you can always grab a gun and patrol the border of Mexico with good ol' Al!!