Cult Mystery Of Ancient Rome and Greece (The Eleusinian Mysteries)

The Eleusinian Mysteries

• Annual festivities and rites held in celebration of the two goddesses, Demeter and, her daughter by Zeus, Persephone



• Initially sponsored by the agricultural cults of these two goddesses

• Typical agricultural fertility rites, as well as rituals marking death (and life after death) are believed to be progenitors of the Eleusinian Mysteries

• Completion of the rites may have provided initiates with the security that they had been absolved and would live happily in the afterlife

• Eleusis (current-day Elefsina) is located about 20 km northwest of Athens



• Demeter (daughter of Cronus and Rhea; thus a sister to Zeus) was a Greek fertility goddess, specializing in the cultivation of grains, the harvest and bread (as the prime sustenance of Man); having taught mortals agriculture, she was responsible for the evolution of humanity from a nomadic state to organized society; the equivalent Roman goddess was Ceres; Demeter is also tied to the changing of the seasons, especially in consideration with her daughter, Persephone

• Persephone was the daughter of Demeter and Zeus; specifically connected with springtime and consequential budding of seeds (rebirth)

• Hades, emerging from a crevice in the earth, kidnapped Persephone and married her; Demeter became angry and mourned (thus halting the spring, consequentially killing all plant life and causing winter), as did the other deities and their starving worshippers, so Zeus had to command Hermes to rescue her, but as Hades had caused Persephone to eat (persimmon seeds - a symbol of fertility) while in the underworld, she was permanently connected to Hades and his domain (this rule was courtesy of the Fates); so the resolution was she would spend three parts of the year in the underworld and the rest out, thus springtime and the changing of the seasons (as each year when Persephone must return, there is a bitter season of wintry death and barrenness); some believe that in addition to the explanation of the seasons, this myth is also the origin of marriage rituals



• Though the seasons do not necessarily correspond in different parts of the world to those of Greece (for example, the period during which Persephone was in the underworld has come to be identified with the bleakness of winter, but may, in fact, be more related to the sometimes harsh dry season of summer in Greece), the concepts of the agricultural growth cycle (and of birth, life, death and afterlife, in general) are universal; though, of course, even at their peak of observance, the Eleusinian Mysteries were essentially limited to the Roman Empire and perhaps its neighboring states, which still constituted a relatively small geographical area that shared, for the most part, climactic patterns and agricultural practices; the high priests of the Mysteries would have had little inclination or need to adapt the foundation of the Mysteries to work within frameworks of foreign ideologies

• The Eleusinian Mysteries began in the Mycenaean Period (circa 1600 BC), during the final stages of the Bronze Age (the time period during which many of the initial Greek myths are set)



• What else was going on in this time period? Egypt - Second Intermediate Period; China - Shang Dynasty; India - Aryan invasion and cultural unification, followed by the Vedas, the origin of Hinduism; Syria - invention of alphabet; Bible - around 200 years after the story of the Moses receiving the Ten Commandments

• Though conjecture, some believe the Mysteries are even older and were derived from ancient Egyptian teachings (possibly via the Minoan civilization) which is somewhat interesting considering the geography (the rituals would have moved southward from far eastern Europe to Egypt, then would have migrated back northwards during which a thriving civilization would have essentially disappeared)

• At their origin, there was no written language in the region (and hardly any elsewhere in the world), so the Mysteries developed as a strictly oral tradition. The Greeks didn’t develop their alphabet (derived from the Phoenicians’) until around 800 BC, 800 years after the establishment of the Eleusinian Mysteries

• The Mysteries were considered a secret and divulgence was punishable by death

• The Mysteries were withheld from, essentially, nobody, which was somewhat remarkable in a time during which women, and certainly slaves, were not granted the full privileges of respectable men. However, men, women and even slaves were allowed, though murderers or “barbarians” were not permitted (in this instance, not speaking Greek was equal to “barbarism”)

• Pisistratus, successful leader of Athens (first half of the 500s AD), institutionalized the Eleusinian Mysteries under government authority, also making them Panhellenic which increased their popularity and fame beyond Athens and even Greece, and ultimately, throughout much of the Roman empire; many Roman emperors, themselves, became initiates



• The state presumed control of the mysteries in the fourth century BC (300s), delegating authority to two prominent and wealthy Eleusinian families, the Eumolpidæ and Kerykes

• The Eumolpidæ and Kerykes families shared the common ancestor, Herald-Keryx, who was a son of Eumolpus, himself a son of Poseidon, one of the first priests of Demeter and one of the founders of the Eleusinian Mysteries

• Lasted 2,000 years (until around 400 AD)

• Ended in 396 AD when Goth king (and former Roman army commander), Alaric, destroyed Eleusis (and most of the larger region around it, though sparing Athens) as he began an assault on the Roman Empire via an eastern offense through the relatively undefended pass at Thermopylae in Greece; Alaric later seized Rome becoming the first German to do so, sowing some of the many seeds that would end the Roman Empire

• There were two distinct levels to the Mysteries: the Lesser and the Greater; which had separate ceremonies, presumably separate intentions and were celebrated at different times of the year



• Initiates (those who had previously participated in the rites) would propose a new initiate who, once admitted to the Lesser Mysteries, would be called a Mystæ and would then be able to participate, in a limited way, in the Greater Mysteries later in the year; after that, they would become seers

• Overseers would administer the Mysteries and these were elected positions; some were elected directly by the people of Eleusis; two were elected from within the Eumolpidæ and Kerykes families; high priests were also chosen from these two families

• Ceremonies designated for the Lesser Mysteries were held annually; those for the Greater Mysteries were held every four years and included special rites that would be held in the Temple of Demeter

• The Lesser Mysteries, held in spring, were actually held in Athens, rather than Eleusis and celebrated Persephone’s return, from the dark world, to the lightness and to her mother

• The Greater Mysteries lasted nine days, occurring in autumn, and were devoted especially to Persephone’s descent into the underworld

• Initial preparation included the transport of sacred items from the town of Eleusis to the Eleusinion Temple at the Acropolis in Athens



• Priests would declare the rites open and participants would begin by cleansing themselves in the Phaleron Bay, just under 10 km from Athens; the next day would be an animal sacrifice, then the following day would include the procession from Athens to Eleusis along the “Sacred Way”

• Following a day of fasting to commemorate Demeter’s search for Persephone, a beverage called kykeon was consumed containing water, barley and various other ingredients, including a plant in the mint family, pennyroyal; pennyroyal’s essential oils contain pulegone, a potentially toxic chemical compound which can affect mental health

• The initiates would then attend a revealing of the sacred relics of Demeter held in the Telesterion, a great hall designed by Iktinos, one of the architects of the Parthenon, followed by a fire (supposed to represent life after death and symbolic of Persephone’s descent into the underworld and her return to the lightness and to her mother); then priests would describe revelations (this was the pinnacle of the rites and the most secretive part); finally, a great night-long celebration, the Pannychis, would be held in the Rharian Field (believed to be the first place where grain ever grew) with feasting and dancing and would conclude in the morning with the sacrifice of a bull and a recognition ceremony for the dead



• Some believe that during the ceremonies, the revelations may have been described by actual initiates as opposed to the priests; in either case, some hypothesize the revelations were influenced by the kykeon beverage and its potentially psychotic effects

• Others believe that the kykeon’s potential effects were from the barley used in the drink and that it contained ergot, a fungal parasite, which causes vascular system constriction and neurotropic behavior, including convulsions and hallucinations; ergot also contains ergotamine which chemically relates to lysergic acid diethylamide ('___'; first synthesized in 1938); ergot has been implicated by some in other historical events such as the French Revolution and the Salem Witch Trials

• Whatever the cause, it is believed that many initiates and/or priests of the Eleusinian Mysteries experienced an array of unusual occurrences including typical symptoms of “religious ecstasy” such as convulsions, seizures and revelatory states with profound spiritual, emotional and intellectual components

And John of Patmos was also a victim of ergot poisoning.saving the scraps of rye bread for communion wasnt the wisest thing to do since the prisoners were served the tainted grain no one else wanted.

And Eulis is alive and well today. just so you know.

Wow. Thanks for the research. I was researching this a month ago from the angle of Demeter-Persephone temples on Malta and Sicily.

Demeter-Persephone cults are older than 1600 BCE. Some of the Demeter-Persephone temples on Malta range in date between 4500 B.C.E. to Christianity. A lot of people mistake the temples on Malta for "Mother Earth Goddess" or Gaia. It is a very common mistake to think that a Demeter temple is "Mother Earth Goddess". Demeter temples usually have some sort of solar CALENDAR constructed within the temple to CALCULATE the HARVESTING seasons since Demeter is the goddess of agriculture. Demeter temples involve animal sacrifice to gain a better harvest. There's no animal sacrifice in temples to Gaia or "Mother Earth Goddess".

On Malta, the temples had solar calendars AND animal sacrifice, thus they were Demeter temples, not Gaia (Mother Earth). Demeter temples are usually paired up with adjoining Persephone temples as a duo. Or triple- an adjoining temple for Persephone (Demeter's daughter) and Hecate (Demeter's sister). Malta has the duo and trio Demeter cult temples on their island.

Malta's Demeter-Persephone Temple c. 5000 B.C.E. (with sunken coastline)

Demeter-Persephone Temples on Malta and their Locations 4100-3300 B.C.E.

Demeter-Persephone Temples on Malta 3300-2000 B.C.E. (with sunken coastlines)

The Maltese are one of the few groups in the world that still make Persephone's violet liquor called rozolin. Since violets were Persephone's flower, in honor of Persephone's birth to Demeter (her mother), liquor made from violets was given to babies after birth. When Christianity was forced upon the Maltese, they continued this pagan tradition only in modern times Persephone's violet liquor (rozolin) is given to babies at their baptisms.

The "Lady on the Bed" statues found in Malta temples for Demeter-Persephone pertain to the mythology of Minthe (or Mint). Mint is the lady on the bed in the statues.

Mint, men say, was once a maid beneath the earth, a Nymphe of Kokytos, and she lay in the bed of Aidoneus; but when he raped the maid Persephone from the Aitnaian hill (Mount Etna in Sicily), then she complained loudly with overweening words and raved foolishly for jealousy, and Demeter in anger trampled upon her with her feet and destroyed her. For she had said that she was nobler of form and more excellent in beauty than dark-eyed Persephone and she boasted that Aidoneus would return to her and banish the other from his halls : such infatuation leapt upon her tongue. And from the earth spray the weak herb that bears her name.

Oppian, Halieutica 3. 485 (Greek poet 3rd century C.E.)

According to the historian Diodorus Siculus, Sicily was said to be the goddess Persephone's (Kore's) favorite island of retreat.

The Sikeliotai who dwell in the island (of Sicily) have received the tradition from their ancestors, the report having ever been handed down successively from earliest time by one generation to the next, that the island (Sicily) is sacred to Demeter and Kore (Persephone); although there are certain poets who recount the myth that at the marriage of Plouton (Haides) and Persephone Zeus gave this island as a wedding present to the bride.

Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5.2.3-5.5.1

In the past both Sicily and Malta had huge Demeter-Persephone cult followings, but what I've noticed is that there's different denominations of them.

Within Sicily the differences in the Demeter-Persephone cults were:
1. Some denied the marriage of Persephone (Kore) to Plouton (Haides).
2. Dispute as to where the Rape of Persephone took place. Some cults in Sicily believed that the rape took place in Enna, Sicily. Other cults maintain that it took place at Mt. Etna (volcano). One denomination of a cult in Siracusa denied that the rape of Persephone ever occurred.
3. Differences in the subsect of the Demeter-Persephone cult pertaining to the Meliai, or the honeymakers as to what flowers should be used to make honey or the honeymaking processes.
4. Differences in the mythology pertaining to sister goddesses, such as Artemis or Hecate. For example, Malta didn't worship Artemis with their Demeter-Persephone cult. No bows and arrows (Artemis) in Malta. Demeter-Persephone cults in Sicily incorporated Artemis into the mythology and Persephone shared an Artemis' fountain called the "spring of Kyane".

Sicily's differences in Demeter-Persephone cults from the Greek denominations can be found discussed in detail on theoi.com.
Demeter-Persephone cults, part 3.

Historian List Referring to Sicily's Demeter-Persephone cults:
1. Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4.23.4, 5.2.3-5.5.1
2. Pindar, Odes Nemean 1 ant1, Odes Olympian 6 ant5
3. Plutarch, Lives Nisias 1.3
4. Ovid, Fasti 4.417
5. Aelian, Historical Miscellany 1. 27
6. Herodotus, Histories 7.153
7. Strabo, Geography 6.2.6
8. Callimachus, Hymn 6 to Demeter
9. Oppian, Halieutica 3. 485

ORIGIN OF DEMETER-PERSEPHONE CULTS

Since Malta's Demeter-Persephone temples begin 4500 BCE, the religion goes back much further than 1600 BCE and predates the Myceneans by thousands of years. It would be obvious that Demeter worship began sometime after humankind invented agriculture since Demeter is the goddess of agriculture. That would be common sense. The Myceneans did NOT invent agriculture.

The birthplace of Demeter-worship is the Aegean Sea. Demeter worship is found everywhere coastal in the Aegean from the north coast, the Sporades, West coast Turkey, the Dodecanese, the Cyclades, most of coastal Greece. Since it's nearly impossible to figure out who started worshipping the goddess of agriculture FIRST in the Aegean, I opted to a second resort-tracking Persephone cults.

Mythology about Persephone stems from flowers. Violets would be Persephone's flower and she had her own orchid. Different denominations would import flowers for the Persephone temples, specifically PURPLE or VIOLET colored flowers. They would plant purple flowers of different breeds all around each Persephone temple so there was always purple-violet colored flowers blooming in every season. Christianity got rid of most of the Persephone temples and built churches and monasteries over the top of them. BUT they didn't destroy the flowers around them. Surrounding each former-Persephone temple there is always an unusually high number of different purple-violet colored flower breeds. That's because each cult-denomination of Persephone IMPORTED those flowers from their motherland.

Therefore, one can track the origin of a Persephone cult (ancestral) by the origin of the purple-violet colored flowers.

Tracking Malta's ancient imports of violet-purple flowers related to Persephone temples, I found two regions of origin. One was surprisingly the Pieria region of Macedonia (Imathia region to the west/ Larissa region of Thessaly to the east). Turned out that Pieria was founded by Thracians, prior to Macedonian invasion. The other area: Thrace region through Troas, Lemnos and Lesvos. Looking at orchid breeds, Malta's species were most similar to the northeast Aegean, including Persephone's orchid.

***If you'd like, I can post links to the photos of all for comparison. I compared 26 orchid breeds. The links alone take one posting.

HONEY MAKING IN DEMETER-PERSEPHONE CULTS

Usually within each Demeter-Persephone cult there is a honey-making sect associated with harvesting (Demeter) and flowers for the bees (Persephone). Even though churches and monasteries were built over the top of Demeter-Persephone temples, the people of the regions still continued their traditional honey-making processes.

Honey-Makers under Demeter-Persephone cults:
1. Meliai: northeast Aegean (Thrace to Troas, Samothrace, Lemnos, Lesvos) and Crete
2. Melissa-Melisseus: Euboea (Evia island), Attica and also Crete

The bee-flower imports for honeymaking go back thousands of years, prior to the erasure of history by the Romans or Christian churches. If a group of people had one origin and the Romans conquered them--they would resist honey-making methods of their conquerers.

Using Malta's Demeter-Persephone cults as an example, the island of Malta was named for its honey. The word Malta comes from the word "Melite" which is Greek for "meli" or honey. Some Maltese thought their honey-making came from the Phoenicians but Malta does not share any honey-bee flower species with the Levant. (visual comparison) Malta's bee orchids bear the strongest visual resemblance to species in the northeast Aegean.

Malta's Yellow Bee Orchid
Lesvos' Yellow Bee Orchid
Kerkyra (Ionian) Yellow Bee Orchid

Malta's and Lesvos' Yellow Bee Orchid has nearly identical markings. Yet nearby Ionian Kerkyra's has completely different brown markings on it.
----
Overall, tracking violet-purple Persephone cult flowers AND tracking honey-bee flowers (Meliai sect) of a group of people will nearly always give the same origin of the Demeter-Persephone cult. And it will give the origin of the people before it was erased by Christian churches. If a group of people worshipped Demeter-Persephone and Christianity erased their ancestral history, Christians didn't destroy the purple-violet flowers nor the honey-bee flowers imported for the Demeter-Persephone cults. People can still track them.

reply to post by Hadrian


Very interesting information, thank you. My question would be are there any clues as to what the actual mysteries entailed? (the ceremony rather than the story).

I also love the fact it is basically another cult that loved getting off their faces! Seems to be common theme throughout history!

reply to post by MapMistress


Wow, MapMistress. What an awesome and compelling set of posts. Thanks a million for adding all that great info to my little ol' thread.

I found the parts about the violets, in particular, fascinating. I've never heard any of this before. I would be very interested in seeing any photographs of this phenomenon, just for an introduction.

reply to post by Flavian


That's the thing, right? What's the point of the mysteries without revelation of the mysteries themselves? Well, first of all, this was a long, long time ago. Second, part of the rituals was containment of the experience, a rule that was taken very seriously and violation of it was punishable by death! Third, in my view, could be a total lack of consistency of what the mysteries, in fact, were. A lack of consensus would make for a more difficult time in developing an overall idea of the ceremonies, especially when considering points one and two.

The fact is no one knows what were actually in the heart of the Eleusinian Mysteries. We can certainly make educated guesses and suppose and lots of people do that and you can find all kinds of ideas on the Internet, some more credible than others.

Including the possibility of psychotropic states, whether via herbs or chemicals or religious ecstasy (real or imagined ... what's the difference?) makes for a fourth consideration of how hard, if not impossible, it is to determine the heart of the mysteries, assuming there was one. The mysteries could have been whatever you wanted them to be. Or, whatever came to you that particular time you were experiencing them.

But the rituals of the Eleusinian Mysteries went on for over two-thousand years. That's an incredibly long time, especially for something that doesn't include a lot of bang for the buck, right? There must have been some significance to them, if not just the way they spoke to people in a way that we understand "the power of myth" to do so.

A cynical consideration, though, would be to ask why did the mysteries, after such a long time, finally fade away? Without specific evidence, one could still ponder that developments in science and philosophy may have preempted some of the allure of the mysteries with, potentially, more rational, natural or systematic thought frameworks that gradually became favored.

reply to post by Hadrian


When you look at some of the names involved with the Mysteries over the years it makes me think it had something to do with knowledge. By that i do not necessarily mean hidden knowledge, more a strive for knowledge and higher learning. I have to say though that is entirely hunch and not fact related!

Originally posted by Hadrian
I would be very interested in seeing any photographs of this phenomenon, just for an introduction.

OK. I think I'll just put up a fraction of links to photos. Malta has a large number of purple, violet, lilac and lavender colored flowers. Considering that Malta formed after the dinosaurs--it could only happen by human import since the island is so young in formation.

FLOWERS SPECIES ON MALTA BY COLOR

222 species with purple or violet flowers
210 species with lilac, lavender to shades of pink flowers
73 species with blue flowers
78 species with red flowers
19 species with orange flowers
36 species with maroon, brown or dark flowers

SMALL INTRODUCTION TO COMPARISON OF PERSEPHONE TEMPLE FLOWER IMPORTS IN ORIGIN

Since there were so many species in shades of purple, lilac, lavender and violet, I decided to focus on the orchid family to ascertain origin of ANCIENT pre-Greek, pre-Roman imports, all pertaining to Persephone temples.

There are 37 species of orchids on Malta. Of them 10 have the same species name on Cyprus, but on visual comparison only 2 are of the same subspecies. 12 of the species on Malta are found on Crete, but not necessarily the same subspecies. 17 of the orchid species on Malta are found from the Thrace to Troas/Lemnos to Lesvos region and that's where they had the most similarities in visual comparison. So roughly half of the orchid species on Malta look like they come from the Thrace, Troas, Lemnos to Lesvos region.

Malta's orchis collina v. Lesvos' orchis collina
Malta's orchis fragrans v. Thrace's orchis fragrans
Malta's anacamptis pyramidalis v. Lesvos' anacamptis pyramidalis
Malta's serapias bergonii v. Larissa Thessaly's serapias bergonii (Pieria region west founded by Thracians)
Malta's serapias vomeracea v. Lesvos' serapias vomeracea

Malta's ophrys pectus (which they thought was indigenous to Malta) turns out to be a direct import from the Thrace-Troas, Lemnos-Lesvos region. It just has a different name even though identical. On Lesvos it is called Ophrys pelinea.

Malta's anacamptis urvilleana is another one that they thought was indigenous to Malta, but it's not. It's also found in the Thrace-Troas, Lemnos-Lesvos region but as a subspecies of anacamptis pyramidalis. Lesvos' version is identical anacamptis urvilleana, so it's an import to Malta and not indigenous.

Malta's version of the Persephone orchid is called ophrys lojaconoi. The orchid looks brown, maroon or dark colored but in certain lighting looks bluish or purple-hued. It always has the white pattern on the top with the green edge around the flower. Other members of the family include Rhodes' version of the Persephone orchid under the species name ophrys persephonae. And the blitopertha family is also part of the Persephone orchid family. On that one I haven't been able to get ahold of photos of Thrace-to-Lesvos' versions of ophrys persephone or ophyrs blitopertha to compare. Also sometimes the Persephone orchid gets mislabeled as part of the iricolor species. I guess whenever botanists see the Persephone orchid, they don't want to call it the Persephone orchid like some sort of taboo. So it constantly gets mislabeled or given a new species name.

CONCLUSION

Malta's denomination of their Demeter-Persephone cult by import of shades of purple flowers for Persephone temples is from the Thrace-Troas, Lemnos-Lesvos region. This would be a pre-Greek version of the Demeter-Persephone cult by thousands of years.. It also coincides with their honey bee orchid imports too. Malta's honey-makers would be the ancient Meliai of the Demeter-Persephone cult.

reply to post by MapMistress


You're on the right track, the whole basis of the Eleusians is the imparting of the 'magic' of horticulture, most specifically, propagation. The Eleusian is a development of the fertility cult, or perhaps an evolution would be a better term, and is specific to the meditteranean region. Malta is useful because that society failed quite early on due to climatic and environmental factors, and therefore was not forced into losing it's natural diversity, the understanding of which was integral to the Eleusian. When the Eleusians became elitised (for want of a better term) this marked the move towards control of access to farming (large land ownership), and co-incides, to some extent with the discovery and spread of the plough. Landowners needed workers with skills specific to their crops, not those educated in maintaining the natural balance, hence they, the peasants were excluded from the mysteries. The cult of Demeter therefore from this period on, becomes nothing more than a formal event for the offering of tythes, a harvest festival. And necessarily, Zeus, the thunder god, preciptator of spring, becomes more and more distant from the people, and this too, of course, is related the use of the plough, as it destroys the mycellia that brings the psilocybine (his son/spawn Dionysus) down from the mountain.

reply to post by Biliverdin


Very interesting answer and certainly food for thought. My question though would be how do you know? (in a non confrontational way!). Is there evidence for this or is it speculation? This is not meant in a negative fashion, more of a "further insight wanted" fashion. For example, have amphoras been found depicting scenes portraying this?

Haha...wrong thread...

Different topic....

Okay R Gordon Wasson is the best source for starters.

I have a couple of very obscure essays reproduced from national archives, so pointless me giving those as sources, but the classics themselves, and esoteric sources, even the parables of the Bible hold remnants of the Eleusians. So some speculation is necessary, but largely, if you read enough (and are therefore interested enough) you can piece it together. And if you practice horticulture, many of the references are as clear as day anyway. But Wasson is probably the most notable expert on the Eleusians. There are no short cuts, I have read countless works just to get a partial piece of the puzzle. But the background story of Persephone, and the better detailed accounts of the Dionysius mysteries, provide the initial framework and are fairly self-explanatory, process wise.

reply to post by Biliverdin


Thanks for that, more reading to catch up on.

With so many mysteries and cults it's a wonder they did not all just blend into
one big vague mix and match blob of each other throughout time.

Even I am starting to believe that there is something to this prose and pomp with all there ceremonies and celebrations, something primal and written in our DNA, something even necessary. And these stories of bindings, or marriages even of the bindings of heaven with hell, or the marriage Persephone and Hades, well there is something to it that I and we all have forgotten with the massage of time, and it might be important, it's not all just trivial matters.

I was even watching a movie a few days ago, the movie was a the same old story you see all the time, in fact it has it's origins in the mysteries and stories of old, more specifically the one mentioned above of Hades and Persephone. But it was very dam cheesy and seemed to be the same old story reconfigured again and again, so much so that it is boringly predictable, and yet there I was watching it.

It was an adventure, a mystery, a war story, a love story, oh yes it was one of them mushy movies that is so dam mushy some times that it makes you uncomfortable sitting there watching it. But you know some people seem to like stuff like that kind of stuff, in fact they seem to dig those type of movies, for it's greater part it was one of those movies. I always thought those movies are stupid and pointless, and I still somewhat do.

But there is something there for sure, something which gets us to watch the same play/movie/show with the same dam plots over and over, even when we know it's whole outline and outcome by heart, it's beginning, it's middle, it's end, since we seen it all before a million times. If not the same exact thing and plot, then something like it so much that it just might be the same thing in decked out different clothes. And for reasons it plays to our minds, to our psyche, to our souls even, in something that not only is entertainment but something that is like a drug of which we need a fix of every now and again to stay sane in this world.

Who knows maybe that is the origins of a great many of these mysteries, a form of mental drug, of escapism even if but for a few brief moments from the harshness of ourselves, and the coldness of the world, and the void. Even in all of the stories and myths if you trace any of them far back to there origins, you can see that all of the mysteries and stories and myths came out of the coldness and vastness of the void.

If you go back it seems that they all have that one thing in common no matter what or were or which part of the world it sprung from, kind of like the greek myths were everything sprung from the void or Chaos as they called it, to even the bible with its translation of the same beginning, or origins.

"The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." ...Genesis 1:2

It seems there mysteries aplenty everywhere, some old, some new, some in rhyme, even nursery rhymes, some in reason, some in doubt, some in the shadows, and some in sunlight, some in songs, some in poems, some hidden, some in plain sight, and some hidden in plain sight.
All threads of the same weave I suppose.

But ya cool thread op.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


There is a tendency to over complicate, not to mention over romanticise the mysteries. They themselves are usually simplicity itself.

reply to post by Hadrian


Great post/topic. The Eleusinian mysteries are so... mysterious. They beg the question as to what was so powerful/informative/convincing that they lasted thousands of years through generations of some very skeptical, intelligent people (where does the word "skeptic" come from, anyway? Uhm, rhetorical).

The idea that there is cosmic information held by an elite few is seductive (though the Demeter cult was quite egalitarian) and one only has to look at the latest cults of today to see this. People (myself included) wanna be privy to this info, too!

Many scholars postulate that these revelatory cults (from the Vedas' use of Soma to early Christianity) were created due to psychedelic substances; like the busy ergot mold and Wasson's 'shroom theory (as seen above) or noxious vapors, as in the oracle's prophecies at Delphi.

Certainly, these substances can provide an experience that can altar one's worldview permanently, but I find it fascinating that a method was perhaps developed that reliably imparted such a powerful experience to "the masses" via sound, lighting and dramatic presentations/psychological conditioning as well as mind-altering chemicals.

Anyway, great topic and anyone in the inner circle who cares to share this cosmic certainty and still hangs out on sites like this one, please let me in the club... unless the dues are excessive.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Thanks. Your post was very interesting. I agree with most of what you say, philosophize about.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
With so many mysteries and cults it's a wonder they did not all just blend into
one big vague mix and match blob of each other throughout time.

But they did. Christianity is certainly an example. It's pretty common to see discussions about the correlations between Christian holidays and the natural world. I think there are parallels to be drawn between nature and the traditions of any contemporary religious practice.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
If you go back it seems that they all have that one thing in common no matter what or were or which part of the world it sprung from, kind of like the greek myths were everything sprung from the void or Chaos as they called it, to even the bible with its translation of the same beginning, or origins.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
It seems there mysteries aplenty everywhere, some old, some new, some in rhyme, even nursery rhymes, some in reason, some in doubt, some in the shadows, and some in sunlight, some in songs, some in poems, some hidden, some in plain sight, and some hidden in plain sight.

All threads of the same weave I suppose.

As I'm sure you know, you are not the first to reckon on this concept. It does seem that most traditions throughout the world share uncanny resemblances, right? Also, our myths and archetypes are remarkably similar. This area has been explored. One route to examining the commonality of archetypes throughout the mythology of societies is in the works of Joseph Campbell and especially,The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

reply to post by Baddogma


Awesome post. Very interesting. I feel like I would be remiss if I did not include the link and suggest that both you and galadofwarthethird view and comment on the following thread because there is such interesting overlap: Mystery Religions........ What's the mystery?.

reply to post by Hadrian

But they did. Christianity is certainly an example. It's pretty common to see discussions about the correlations between Christian holidays and the natural world. I think there are parallels to be drawn between nature and the traditions of any contemporary religious practice.

Oh I know that's why I put that little sarcastic emote there.

As I'm sure you know, you are not the first to reckon on this concept. It does seem that most traditions throughout the world share uncanny resemblances, right? Also, our myths and archetypes are remarkably similar. This area has been explored. One route to examining the commonality of archetypes throughout the mythology of societies is in the works of Joseph Campbell and especially,The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

Never heard of the guy or read that book. But there is more then parallels to be drawn from that and those myths and archetypes, and in that they are more then just copies and reversions of each other. The whole thing and the myths, stories, heroes, villains, the archetypes, the genus the whole thing is the encoding language of the human mind, the hero with a thousand faces is a pretty apt name I suppose.

Reminds me of a book I once read that draws a parallel to that by this guy.
Daniele Bolelli

I still have that book it seems. And It gets into the whole thing and this phenomenon in chapter 6, Martial Arts, Media and Myth of this book.
On The Warriors Path