watching loved ones die.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

In 2007, I watched my mother-in-law pass her last breath from cancer. In 2008, I lost my only brother to the same disease... though I can't escape the suspicion that much of their suffering and rapid demise was more attributal to the chemicals and treatments plied upon them than the cancers themselves.

It seems entirely possible to me that chemo and radiation therapy actually destroy the body's immune system pretty well. Sometimes, chemo just doesn't work and so the patient must surely be left in a worse state than before.

But these things work on statistics. In most cases, the chemicals work and give the patient a much longer lifespan and sometimes they are even cured.

There is absolutely no doubt that every single one of these chemicals has gone through years and years of painstaking testing to determine in a statistically relevant way that the benefits, on average, completely outweigh the disadvantages.

So, although I don't know for sure if you are right in your case or not (sometime cancer can just suddenly become very aggressive), you might be right.

But if we let anecdotes rule our lives instead of data, we'd never set foot in a car or plane or boat. We'd never have an x-ray or cat scan, we'd never allow ourselves contact with someone who has the flu and we'd probably spend our lives in plastic bubbles. We don't because we know that despite the risks, the benefits vastly outweigh the risks in most cases.

I know this is tough on you and I am sorry that you (or anyone else) has to go through it. Please don't pay attention to his outbursts. The illness sometimes does strange things to people and the morphine can be just as bad. Some people have adverse reactions to it and may hallucinate in a very bad way. Speak to the person you knew, not the person that is there now.

Much love.

Dear old grandfather passed away a couple summers ago. I was there in the VA hospice with him when he passed. It was extremely difficult. He struggled for a few seconds at the end, sighed, and went on to that other place.
I was the only family member there. That in itself was sad. But I'm glad I was there, because I think somehow he knew I was there and that it was ok to go. It's rough, but there's also some comfort in that I think. (at least I tell myself that so I can cope with the memory).
The nurses were kind of cold in their treatment of him, but as patient number 1000 that they had in hospice care, I can understand. They were comforting to me and one hugged me for a few minutes and allowed me (a grown man) to cry and blubber on her shoulder.

In the end, it will be both good and bad for you. A blessing and a burden. Realize that you are giving the last possible gift to someone; just being there so they are not alone. The easy button would be to go home and let the dying pass in an empty room.

Bless you for being there.

Hugs for your pain.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
i wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, but bet there are numorous people here who have been through what i'm going through now.
i'm sitting here in a hospice room watching my father slowly pass.
too slowly if you ask me. he's not been himself, for instance he's using curse words that have never left his mouth in his 79 years.
he's blaming me for everything etc.........
yes, i understand that he means none of it, but it's a tough thing to watch.
he's on morphine, which seems to help, but this has dragged on for days, and will probably continue for qute some time.
he's still strong enough to put up a fight, even though it is a losing battle.
about 5 minutes ago i asked the nurse what the maximum dose allowable is.
not nearly enough to end it and she mentioned that it's quite normal for family members to ask for enough to just end it.
the thought of this concept not being legal is disturbing to say the least.
i'll jab him myself in order to end his suffering but tptb won't let me.
sad but true, i could most likely just walk down to central ave. here in albuquerque and find enough from some druggie.
if this continues much longer it might be worth a trip to prison.
i apologize to the board if i've crossed a line with this post.

My father died of cancer at 51 years of age. I too went through the whole hospice routine with him. Just keep telling yourself that the death process is a part of life. Sometimes I thought a quick death, like a car accident, etc. would have been better, but in a way slowly passing gave us a chance to say our goodbyes and lay all our cards on the table. Time heals but more than 20 years on I still think of him almost everyday.

reply to post by Dragonsbreaths


I don't know what to say.

Wish I could say something to comfort you or give you strength.

I hope somebody is with you.

Will keep you in my thoughts and safe journey.

reply to post by rubbertramp

My wife and I went through Alzheimer's with my mother-in-law and she was 82 when she passed away in June 2010 but we were her caregivers until the last six months of her life. We were told by her doctor in U.S.A,, to put her in a hospice (since we were showing symptoms of Alzheimer's too,) in her country (Izmir, Turkey) in December 2009 or he would prescribe drugs for us! To make a long short, as much as we loved her; we prayed that she would die as quickly as possible. Actually the country of Turkey at that time in 2009 people there knew more about Alzheimer's than the U.S. doctors. You are in a very humbling situation and to take things into your own hands will solve nothing but grief. I would go home get a good nights sleep, eat a healthy meal and get my mind off of your situation. It will rejuvenate you inside. and allow your mind to recover a little!

Yes, I think most of us have been in that situation with someone we care about.....and yes, I think we should be allowed to help our loved ones move on with dignity.

I'm so sorry, RT.

There ain't no pretty words to make the hurt go away. And it hurts like hell. I know. I just lost my grandmother in January.

My heart hurts for you. All I can do is give you a hug and pray you find peace and strength.

(((hugs)))

Time

reply to post by rubbertramp


My heart goes out to you. I've been in a similar situation about a year ago. Here is my 2 cents:

- The outbursts are not directed towards you. Drugs and life regrets can do strange things in the final days/hours.
- Now is the time to say EVERYTHING you always wanted to say. There will be lucid moments.
- It sounds egoistic, but you need to take care of yourself too. The fact that you are there means everything and your dad knows that! I've been told that some patients cannot transition when a loved one is present. Go for a walk for an hour or so. When he may pass during that time please don't feel guilty. He wanted it to be that way.

I'm an agnostic when it comes to life after life. I feel that we simply don't know ... All that matters is that you are there for him now. Thank you!

My thoughts are with you.

I have had many family members pass away, and the saddest one was my father. 6 years ago, I watched literally the strongest - mentally and physically - man whither away to nothing and die. He was a diabetic and had contracted gangrene in his foot from a wound. He vehemently declined the doctors cut off his leg, and laid in his own bed for 3 weeks before he finally passed away. My mother still slept with him, even through his difficult breathing and smell (gangrene rots the flesh, so you can imagine) the entire time.

It was literally the hardest thing to experience in my entire life, and as you've said, OP, not something I would wish upon my worst enemy.

As one brother to another, in this great family we call the Human Race, take solace in knowing that soon their suffering on this mortal coil will end. Take strength in their strength, and take wisdom in all they have said. Even if it seems that they cannot, find it in your own heart to forgive them of every wrong they have done to you. And to find the understanding that their time has come.

*Hugs*

At the risk of sounding cruel I would like to add a spiritual perspective and personal experience.

I watched my mother die over 9 days and saw her take her last breath.

Death is natural.

Mourning can be selfish. We grieve for our own loss. The dead are better off than we are, nobody is crying "for them" we cry and grieve for ourselves.

It sucks to watch a life slip away but IMO she only lasted 9 days because of science, otherwise she would have suffered a day, not 9.

As so many have already said, I am sorry for what you are going through right now.

I wanted to affirm what some have already said: When I had open heart surgery they gave me morphine and apparently I was very mean to people, but I don't remember being mean or anything. Drugs can really affect a person, so please don't take anything mean or rude to heart.

I hope in some small way that helps. I really think it is an affect of the drugs, especially morphine.

Watching loved ones die is very difficult.
I watched my father wither away from lung cancer, he lasted less than six months from diagnosis to the end.
I watched him take his last breath.

Hugs and prayers

I also remember my mother telling me a nurse approached her, to help my father's passing.
She was appalled, being a good Catholic and all.
Perhaps you will find a similar angel of mercy.

hey man you cant beat yourself up about this, it isnt your fault and he loves you . you must enjoy the good times. things happen that we cant explain. also we all die at some point. it is just the way it goes.

Originally posted by rubbertramp

i'm sitting here in a hospice room watching my father slowly pass.
too slowly if you ask me.

You honor him.

it's a tough thing to watch.

Take breaks...

if this continues much longer it might be worth a trip to prison.

No it won't. What do you think he would say?

i apologize to the board if i've crossed a line with this post.

You haven't. Of course you're pissed. How dare he make you watch him die? Sharing your anger is the best thing to deal with it. Keep updating if you can.

You are doing fine.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Death happens. Your own emotional weakness to this fact of life does not justify what you wish to do. You will be going through the same one day, and perhaps you would like to die. In the old days in many nations, you took a sword and killed your friend to fray from death. We don't do that anymore.


For me, the thing is, they're going to die. So they won't even be alive to curse the day they felt so much pain.

I say, if you're going to die, see how much you can take. Who cares when you fail? You'll be dead. Better to die with something, be it pain even, than die in sleep or nothingness.

When I was younger I thought maybe I'd like to die in my sleep when I'm old. I think this was from my fear of death. Now, I don't care how I go. I'm going, I get it. I'd like to feel the experience to see how it is maybe. Be it pain, comfort, love, hate, whatever. I think I want to be there to send it all off to whatever end.

That's got to be rough.

I decided long ago to take care of it myself if I ever had something slow and somewhat predictable so my loved ones wouldn't have to deal with that, and my close circle of friends are all co-sworn to assist each other off if something unpredictable like a stroke occurs that leaves us breathing but dead-in-bed, and our living wills aren't followed.

I think you ought to be provided with something like a PCA pump: give me or my family a button for 200mg of Ativan and turn off the monitors. We'll say goodbye and make the last jump together, thank you very much.

Interesting thread considering i lost my dad 10 days ago. He was in hospital as well, died 68. Still my brain can't accept it.
I was thinking i wouldnt want to see him give his last breath. I was with him till the end however and i think i would regret it if i hadnt.
My dad had started seeing stuff and talking in his own world. However one thing happened that was really weird.
During his lithargy (deep sleep) he just jumped out of sleep and said "oh my God, look at the moon! It's full moon and so beautifull..." Needless to say that he had a closed room with no chance of seeing the night sky. Noone had talked of full moon since noone knew we had one that day. We were all absorbed in being near my dad comforting him holding his hand etc. It was a full moon at that time. Then some hours later he jumped up from bed again and said "earthquake just happened". however there wasn't any.
It wasnt till next day in the morning we heard on the news that in our area there was a quake only 3.4 or smth that passes unnoticed. those things were kinda weird and made me think his soul did travel out of the body occasionaly.

He did see his mother father and sister who all have passed on, and he was saying they laugh and smile to him.

My dad did talk weird but never got insulting towards me or anyone of the family. All he was saying was that he was flying and asking me to grab his hand in order to put him back to his bed.

In the end he had a hard day i went in his room alone, talked to him and told him that he shouldnt be afraid, to let go and not be stressed about me and my wife. We will manage somehow (we have a lot of debt), and that he and I knew eachother before this life and we will meet again. Its not a goodbye. My dad left 2 minutes after this.
Although i cried at that moment directly i felt a hope inside me. And i keep feeling a warm feeling on my back like someone is touching his two hands on me. And then all desperation goes away.

reply to post by rubbertramp


If he is still putting up a fight (as you mentioned), perhaps he has his reasons. Please remind yourself that this is his fight and not yours. I don't think anyone who has not been through this can really understand how difficult it can be to feel so utterly helpless.
Do the best you can with the knowledge you have in knowing that possible regret, can be even worse if we don't follow our moral compass.
May peace be with you and yours during this time.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

These things people don't talk about but should. These things, a lot of people don't know about so here is where maybe someone else's experience can hopefully benefit someone else.

Nice and helpful post--thank you!!

My mother died (cancer) July 8th,2008. It was the very day that she was going to visit me, but took a turn for the worse. She was afraid of death, having recently lost two sons (my brothers), and I wasn't too fond of it myself. I went to see her.. we lived in different states, but on my last semi-lucid visit with my mother I leaned in and whispered into her ear "mom, don't be afraid", and not expecting an answer she replied in a strong voice;"I'm not." Those were her last words. There is no way that I can make a person understand how much those words effected me, having known how terrified my mother had been, and then to hear her say :I'm not". Life changing.