Bible Prophacy come to pass

Allright, what's going on today isn't nearly as bad as it's been in the past.

The doom and gloom that revelations describes actually describes the world as it was forming. Lots of earthquakes, volcanos, floods, landslides, etc...

I'm sure there would always be someone there to say that the prophecies were being fulfilled every time something unproportionally bad happened. Vesuvius, the Plague, Mt. St. Helens, any number of past occurences.

The trouble is that we can tune in to see everything bad that's happening all around the world at any time. And they just don't report the good things, because they're not exciting and won't sell cars.

@ drbryankkruta

Been there done that.

Grew up in a Christian family, even went to a Christian school thru Sophomore year. Needless to say I know all about rapture, armageddon, tribulation, 1000yr reign, etc, etc,

At 17 I opened my eyes.

Misfit

delta caos sorry man but if this were so please explain references of Goverment for example that has never existed being mention//////and to the best of my knowledge it has not definately occured with in the 2000 years of marked history AD and it couldnt have occur BC because Christ hadnt died yet to provided the shed blood that washes away our sins further more if the end time events already happened we wouldnt have sin as per the destruction thereof noted in the same passages last time I checked there is alot of sin still murder rape theft etc

Misfit
then in your learned position why do you question what you know to be true by Gods word .....not to be rude but did you deny your teachings and turn away from them or what ....I cant understand the loss of faith in the written word of God picking it apart like you are, and denying the parts as they are presented is there a cause for this was it by choice or trauma or just a thought that betrayal has occured on you

Im not judging but I have never experienced the revelation you have and want to know how it came to be

I too believe the bible to be the infallible word of God. But I don't think the things that are happening are the fulfillment of revelation. When these things happen that are in revelation, it will be massive.

Sure these things are a sign of the end times, but they could go on for many years yet. Who knows.

"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And ther will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." Matthew 24:6-8

"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." Matthew 24:21
These are the words of Jesus, and he also said that as the fig tree puts forth it's leaves you know summer is near, so also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-at the door.

And for all those who bag the bible, I would like you to write a better one.
The book of Daniel has many prophecies that were so accurate that many scholars try to say that this book was written after the events.

But thats what Im saying Rosebeforetime these are get on the ball warnings that are mentioned to key those who know the word to step up the spreading and fullfillment of the obligations we have under the context
Gods will we who are saved wont be here for the really bad parts as witnessed to in the rapture

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
Misfit
then in your learned position why do you question what you know to be true by Gods word .....not to be rude but did you deny your teachings and turn away from them or what ....I cant understand the loss of faith in the written word of God picking it apart like you are, and denying the parts as they are presented is there a cause for this was it by choice or trauma or just a thought that betrayal has occured on you

Im not judging but I have never experienced the revelation you have and want to know how it came to be

Know to be true by Gods word? Yourd Gods' words no longer exist. They have been re-written time and time again. I don't know what "version" of the bible you adhere to, but have you ever questioned that revisioning? Have you compared your bible to the original Hebrew text?
Have you not questioned why the lost/now found Dead Sea Scolls will not be released to the common man? Have you watched how Christians in general (not all, but the vast of) act when they think no one is watching? Do you pay attention to how quick a Christian, especially those of national/global sight, will judge another because they don't adhere to "the infallable word of god"? (ie: I have YET to meet a Christian, and I live in the bible belt, that has seen what I wear around my neck, and NOT tell me I am going to hell).

Being raised that "anyone that is not saved by the lord jesus christ yadda yadda" is going to hell, and upon verbally questioning that teaching with - "does that mean that ANYONE that is not saved and a christian is going to hell?" getting an answer of yes - well, how could a sect be any more holier than thou. That is NOT what the man Jesus wanted, he taught humility, love, care, etc. That notion I could not bear to take with me into adulthood.

Christianity has always been and always will be a sect of dominance. One is either Christian, or is nothing. The bloodiest of wars have been started due to Chrsitianity, and many of those BY the Christian theology.

It by far was not due to trauma or "just a thought" or any such thing. It was because in my soul I knew it is wrong to carry my faith the way the Christian church would have it. I never stated nor led to a fact that I "lost my faith" in the context I am reading you as. In fact, I have not. My faith in a Supreme Being is quite strong, were it not I would not be sitting here today - I would be in the dirt many times over. I have, however, lost all faith in the Christian ways - to many conflicts, to many contradictions, to many judgements.

It's about the way you live, not how the preacher tells you to live.

Bright Blessings,

Misfit

Not to be rude, but WHERE did you get that alleged doctorate from and what was your thesis defense?

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
delta caos sorry man but if this were so please explain references of Goverment for example that has never existed being mention//////and to the best of my knowledge it has not definately occured with in the 2000 years of marked history AD and it couldnt have occur BC because Christ hadnt died yet to provided the shed blood that washes away our sins further more if the end time events already happened we wouldnt have sin as per the destruction thereof noted in the same passages last time I checked there is alot of sin still murder rape theft etc

See, this is what puzzles me -- that you claim your "doctorate" in Biblical prophecy and the book of Revelation, yet miscall the book "revelations" and seem to be unaware of the work of the major scholars in the field such as Beale and Thomas.

then in your learned position why do you question what you know to be true by Gods word .....not to be rude but did you deny your teachings and turn away from them or what ....I cant understand the loss of faith in the written word of God picking it apart like you are, and denying the parts as they are presented is there a cause for this was it by choice or trauma or just a thought that betrayal has occured on you

Again, an odd comment from someone who has supposedly studied at a seminary or Biblical college where the focus on ministry covers issues such as this very thing -- and the all-important topic of Apologetics as well as dispensational theology and the whole preterist/post-toasties thing as well.

Im not judging but I have never experienced the revelation you have and want to know how it came to be

Innnnnnnnnnnnnteressting statement from one trained for the ministry. Yes, indeed.

Misfit / Byrd

I presently as a member of the scholar community with the understanding of 13 versions of the written word including hebrew,greek and jewish language versions do cross check and compare the differnt versions on every question before me and at present despite the fact there are 3 fully differnt versions and one 1/2 differnt they come to basically the same conclusions

1) we were given basic laws to follow
2) we are told to share these words and laws with others
3)a basic principal for salvation is present although slightly scewed version to version in method
4)there are warnings of failure to obtain righteousness thru salvation and
law obeidience wil result in an everlasting punishment that seperates you from God totally ie the second death or hell or a pergitory or simply being left here to watch the world get what you wanted and not being able to take part...
5)that the truely right or saved in Christ shall be removed from the hell on earth soon to come down on those who remain
6) great riches and rewards await those in a new earth or heaven or eden
7)once all who are left behind as evil (for lack of a better lamen term for those who arent up with us) suffer the final punishments if it be burning in hell, dying the second death and just blinking out of existance or servitude to those who are righteous or some other method of judgement those who are righteous will inherit the old kingdom made anew without sin to rule along side God and Jesus


all of these are comon in the 13 versions in 4 languages which are despite wording changes of the same meaning in the most basic terms therefore litteral interpretation sometimes fails they contain the same idea that therefore is why we are givin the commandment to learn remember and keep these words and laws and spread them to those who dont understand you see now where i come from

[edit on 3/10/04 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
Misfit

I presently as a member of the scholar community with the understanding of 13 versions..................................

Your point being?

I've heard all that for 35 years, nothing new.

Misfit

Originally posted by Byrd
Not to be rude, but WHERE did you get that alleged doctorate from and what was your thesis defense?

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
delta caos sorry man but if this were so please explain references of Goverment for example that has never existed being mention//////and to the best of my knowledge it has not definately occured with in the 2000 years of marked history AD and it couldnt have occur BC because Christ hadnt died yet to provided the shed blood that washes away our sins further more if the end time events already happened we wouldnt have sin as per the destruction thereof noted in the same passages last time I checked there is alot of sin still murder rape theft etc

See, this is what puzzles me -- that you claim your "doctorate" in Biblical prophecy and the book of Revelation, yet miscall the book "revelations" and seem to be unaware of the work of the major scholars in the field such as Beale and Thomas.

then in your learned position why do you question what you know to be true by Gods word .....not to be rude but did you deny your teachings and turn away from them or what ....I cant understand the loss of faith in the written word of God picking it apart like you are, and denying the parts as they are presented is there a cause for this was it by choice or trauma or just a thought that betrayal has occured on you

Again, an odd comment from someone who has supposedly studied at a seminary or Biblical college where the focus on ministry covers issues such as this very thing -- and the all-important topic of Apologetics as well as dispensational theology and the whole preterist/post-toasties thing as well.

Im not judging but I have never experienced the revelation you have and want to know how it came to be

Innnnnnnnnnnnnteressting statement from one trained for the ministry. Yes, indeed.

First of all its revelation with no "s"
and I wrote my thesis defending the contriversial nature of philisophical translation doesnt devalue the textual basics and noone religious veiw should be the only view werein I stated the Babylonian hypocracy that all words and meanings are one way and wrong otherwise...sighting the fact that God tore down Babylon in order that people be seperated in view and laguage and have to find there way back to the original meaning he first set fourth on there own thru the use of their on heart and sole....there is a basic blue print or conscience inbedded in us all that aides the process


you sight the fact of my exploration of differnt views as one of the unknowledgable vagabon so to speak I say to you this if you have an opinion that varies then so be it the point at hand is not my credentials I am a curious person and I want to know more about other views so as to continue an everlasting education in which I shall never know all the answers but that shouldnt disqualify myself or you or anyone else from being awarded their educational credentials such as a Doctorate you see the education totally complete and without a need to grow further I beg to differ that Doctorate mearly says I met the basic requirements for the level I achieved where in a set uniform format has been instructed to many from there you are expected to use thos basic principals you learned to aid you in growing to the ultimate peak of your abilities and in fact only your death stops this process.....the first thing any professor will tell you is this is the beginning of a great journey .....no professor will say the journey is over


I will never be afraid of the challenges you have just laid down and with pride will tell you I dont know it all and Im willing to learn more as should even yourself

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
Misfit

I presently as a member of the scholar community with the understanding of 13 versions of the written word including hebrew,greek and jewish language versions do cross check and compare the differnt versions on every question before me and at present despite the fact there are 3 fully differnt versions and one 1/2 differnt they come to basically the same conclusions

Wouldn�t Latin figure into the mix, and isn�t Hebrew the Jewish language (and don�t names rate a capital letter)? I have found the most common spelling of �differnt� to be different in the academic community.

1) we were given basic laws to follow
2) we are told to share these words and laws with others
3)a basic principal for salvation is present although slightly scewed version to version in method

My perception is getting slightly skewed� or is it screwed?

4)there are warnings of failure to obtain righteousness thru salvation and
law obeidience wil result in an everlasting punishment that seperates you from God totally ie the second death or hell or a pergitory or simply being left here to watch the world get what you wanted and not being able to take part...

Purgatory separates those that demonstrate obedience to the will of God, vice those that refrain from his tenets, i.e. sinners.

5)that the truely right or saved in Christ shall be removed from the hell on earth soon to come down on those who remain

As Budweiser would say: True. Truly.

6) great riches and rewards await those in a new earth or heaven or eden
7)once all who are left behind as evil (for lack of a better lamen term for those who arent up with us) suffer the final punishments if it be burning in hell, dying the second death and just blinking out of existance or servitude to those who are righteous or some other method of judgement those who are righteous will inherit the old kingdom made anew without sin to rule along side God and Jesus

I�m just a layman, a simian of modest existence, a primate who�s judgment is easily disputed.. aren�t you being a little harsh?

all of these are comon in the 13 versions in 4 languages which are despite wording changes of the same meaning in the most basic terms therefore litteral interpretation sometimes fails they contain the same idea that therefore is why we are givin the commandment to learn remember and keep these words and laws and spread them to those who dont understand you see now where i come from

I don�t understand the literal aspect of the points you�ve given, is this common?

Mirthful me

Latin is my next direction but I have to admit my grasp of other languages and cultures come rather hard won I work hard at it everyday but struggle with it all the way

Hebrew and Jewish languages while the same origins like UK english and US english do have based on the cultural concentration so fundamental differences prenuciation syntax and slang are among those differences as well as the Hebrew/Jewish language has altered from biblical times in what is known as progress long words shortened, some words gained multiple meanings etc

By no means was the reference to lay persons meant to be damaging there are those who cant read or write and there are those who do and yet dont understand all of what they are givin during their learning process
in that aspect the lay person is that which God places his commandment to give aid for ignorance will not remove the punishment for sins because God has in this commandment made there a way not to be ignorant

drbryankkruta....prove it! Prove any of it is the word of "God". You can't!
If one can grasp the reality of the Bible's historical setting, then there is only one more hurdle to conquer. The infamous King James of England cast a veil over the treasures in this ancient writing. The language he chose was not the common English of the day, but the obscure language of the royal court he commanded. He chose a language not only foreign to the common people, but one so simplistic that it was totally inadequate to properly render the languages it replaced. The competence of the translators was really of little importance considering the true agenda of this despotic, authoritarian and repressive monarch. He had only two goals. One was his desire to be a god-king by affirming the "divine right of kings" and the other was to eliminate the access of the common people to these works. To accomplish this end, he gave his hand picked supervisor of the project, the Bishop of London, strict dogmatic instruction and gave final approval to the book that bears his name. Had it not been what he wanted, it would never have been published. The result is a language nobody understands, numerous purposeful mistranslations and so many words added or deleted, the toll is incalculable. The fruit of his labor has held fast over four centuries. In the world of Bible-based religions, there are more denominations than books in the Bible, more sub-denominations than chapters and more pastoral schisms than verses.

The Bible is the Abridged Version. There have been close to fifty versions or translations of the bible throughout history and there are actual large volumes of gospels that were omitted from the ultra-popular King James version. Essentially, as soon as someone found a disparity, which was invariably, they would excise a chapter that didn't agree with their version of Christianity. This led to the formation of God's Beatles - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - whose gospels were chosen as the definitive volumes.

The Apocryphal, Or Deuterocanonical Books
The 13 books known as the Apocrypha which were also in the original King James translation but were removed at the Synod of Dordrecht in 1619.

Books Mentioned But Not Found
Besides the Apocryphal books eliminated from the Bible used by Protestant Church there are 23 other books mentioned in scripture, which do not appear in the Bible.

The Lost Books of the Bible and The Forgotten Books of Eden
A book with 56 of the the lost books and letters.

Human history has allowed precious few ancient religious writings to survive the onslaught of the more aggressive and powerful religious forces, which seek only to gain territory and wealth. Genocide and cultural eradication always go hand in hand with missionary zeal. In many cases every trace of the conquered society's religious writings, practices, icons, and even buildings were destroyed, in the name of conversion from worship of gods considered evil, and religious customs labeled as heresies. What generally results from past crusades is the conqueror's religion replacing or predominantly blending with the conquered culture's former religious practice, making the its religion almost unrecognizable. Christianity falls into the latter category, having been the victim of the Roman Empire, under the Emperor Constantine, who blended the Christian Church with the institutionalized "pagan" practices of Rome and eliminated any semblance of either the Jewish religious influence or the first church Jesus established during his ministry.

After solidifying his position to gain complete control of the western portion of the empire in 312, the Emperor Constantine instituted the Edict of Milan, a "Magna Carta of religious liberty," which eventually changed the Empire�s religion and put Christianity on an equal footing with paganism. Almost overnight the position of the Christian Church was reversed from persecuted to legal and accepted. Constantine began to rely on the church for support, and it on him for protection. The Church and the Empire formed an alliance, which remains to this day. Very rapidly, the laws and policies of the Empire and the doctrine of the Church became one with Constantine as the interpreter of both law and policy. This was accomplished by eliminating hundreds of books thought to be against "Church" doctrine and watering down what remained by blending Christian beliefs and practice with long established Roman sanctioned pagan worship.
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. Constantine tolerated pagan practices, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his former subjects. In 330 he began an assault on paganism but used a clever method of persuasion to force people to follow the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the official holiday now celebrated as the birthday of Jesus. He also replaced the weekly day of worship by making rest on Saturday unlawful and forcing the new religion to honor the first, not the seventh day, as a day of rest. As a way of defining his concept of the new universal religion he simply classified everything "Jewish" to be an abomination. Considering almost every aspect of the Bible is "Jewish" by association, every doctrinal biblical principle was changed or eliminated. After 337 Constantine increased his purging of the more obvious aspects of paganism.
Through a series of Universal Councils, he and his successors completely altered doctrine without regard to biblical edict, set up a church hierarchy of his own design, and established a set of beliefs and practices, which are the basis for all mainstream Bible-based churches. The separation of the Protestants and the Roman Church caused a physical split but the beliefs and practices established by Constantine remained almost identical. Very little has changed since the 4th century Councils changed the face of Christianity. An effective practice instituted was the purging of any book in the formerly accepted biblical works, over 80% of the total, that church leaders felt did not fit within their new concept of Christianity. The doctrines and practices remaining in the surviving books were effectively eradicated by simply changing them by replacing clear scripture with Church-sanctioned doctrine.

Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.
What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as �Protestant", is unrecognizable form either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity begun by Constantine.
There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are �lost�; to the Church they are �forbidden�. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.
One of the more obvious forms of discovery comes from the surviving books themselves, which sight works not present in the existing collection. Also many do not know that the Apocryphal books were actually included in the King James translation until they were officially purged by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885. Other writings also connect many books to the first church. Whatever the number before the purge by the formation of Catholicism by Constantine; even one lost book is a great loss indeed.

YET.....you sit there and tell us the bible is the word of god I strongly suggest you go back and do some study on your own religion! This is so typical though..."most" Christians do not know their own religion.

AAAAHHHH Lady V


but I didnt in anyway say any one version was truely Gods word I in fact said do to the differnt and many ways of translating the original version I study as many as I cant and try to find the similarities its like a puzzle all the pieces are differnt but when fitted together can make a cohearant and sometimes wonderful picture that boggles your mind noone I feel can discount another for the very first version is not well known axcept to maybe a few and even those may have some differnce of transfering the words in exactly the same way personality also plays a part as well

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
I beleive the weather directly reflects that the rash of hurricanes,earthquakes, and floods and famine etc, see below.

from Revelation

Wow, your faith in the bible must be pretty weak if you need to see common hurricanes and earthquakes as fufilment of divine prophecy. Why do you feel that these moderately unusual hurricanes are such a fufilment, and what would you think about them if really destructive ones came along?

Nygdan


Because I read this information that all the events are foretold in the book of God and factual in there present realization however I dont believe that we are at the end yet again these events will grow in frequency and infact
they are said in the bible to be signs wars, natural disasters,rumors of wars, and many other things are ment to happen to facilitate the assention of the antichrist who will appear to make these problems go away by the great miracles he will appear to perform which is also in the bible he will bring the end to war, starvation, disease etc for 3 1/2 years after his take over or at least that will be how it appears to those who dont believe in God

@ drbryankkruta


Your original post with the subject of "Bible Prophacy come to pass" is a statement that you believe in the Bible, no matter the version.

LadyV did not ask you to prove one version against another, her statement is "Prove any of it is the word of "God".

Within her post, to justify "prove it", she is bringing rationalization of how can any prophecy come to pass from the Bible, when the Bible has been so fouled by man throughout the years?

You say [after LadyV's "prove it" post] "all the events are foretold in the book of God and factual in there present realization" - did you actually read LadyV's post?

On a side note, if I find a free "punctuation checker", would you use it?

Misfit

EDIT = added: [after LadyV's "prove it" post]

[edit on 3-10-2004 by Misfit]

misfit


I understand and I told her that many versions many meanings so the best way to prove it in my mind is to mix all of them together and filter the parts that are constantly the same thereby offering the closest match to the very first version humanly possible in this day and age all versions contain judgements - punishments - laws salvation/deeds of proof in faith - and the change in existance that destroys evil so that good be hurt no more
so that is the way to prove it and even then I never claimed only what we know it fact I said we dont have access in the absolutely factual version so we must get as close as possible with what we have



well it seems as if i have become the center of focus now so when it is time to focus on the issue I wished to see if people thru their research found similarities that I did but it seems to be an impass situation that has lost its perspective sad cause I was hoping to see if the similarities were new and differnt from mine so I may learn further from the diverse cultures of the world and religions as well not a debat over educational credentials sad guys just sad that something as simple as an attempt to creat a think tank based debat on one single issue prophacies are they coming to pass became a smear campaign such as the one Bush and Kerry are running if I wanted that type of cituation I would be running for President at least then I could understand my getting personally attacked as part of the game

[edit on 4/10/04 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
now to Relentless

That is intriguing I never heard of that but look at it this way is it possible God spoke to the GI thru her because he thought he was missing other forms of revelation or better yet Is her prediction formulated based on the book of Revelation and deduced in the final form you spoke of

To answer your question, no this woman was a phophet with her own revelations, quite prolific I believe. Just thought I'd mention it as it seemed along the same lines.

But I see this has sadly turned into a thread where you are now having to defend your beliefs instead of discuss the revelation. What a shame.

Alright then............

@ drbryankkruta

First, only one post within this thread pertains to the inquiry of your credentials. It is a legitimate inquiry, one has the justification to ask of such when another professes to be of an authority of any type. That's just the way this board is ..... as if Dragnet - just the facts 'mam. I see that you have been on this board for several months, seems this would not be news to you.

When starting a thread with anything of religious nature on this board, that thread will take more than one path of discussion. Many times the paths become heated. It is no different on this board than it would be at the local cafe'.

@ Forum

For the sake of debate:

You (drbryankkruta) state:
[subject] "Bible Prophacy come to pass"
[start of thread] I beleive the weather directly reflects that the rash of hurricanes,earthquakes, and floods and famine etc"

This, to me, is the statement that what we are experiencing of our Earths nature is a direct sign of the prohecies of the Bible.

To that, I say, these occurances are irrelevant. These many instances of Earthly calamities have been taking place for eons, at some periods with far greater intensity. Surely a person of your schooling knows these facts. It's all in the science books. Were these occurances signs of Biblical prophacy, then the end times have been happening for those eons.

Pass.

Misfit