Occupy: It's time to fight back

I've just read about the police crackdown on the first anniversary of the initial Zucotti Park camp.

It is important to understand the behaviour of the NYPD is secretive, in some cases illegal, and designed to maximally avoid public accountability. At the moment, we don't know who these police are receiving their orders from.

That is something you need to find out. Anonymous or whatever other analytical or datamining resources are at OWS' disposal, need to be utilised in discovering who it is among the command structure of the NYPD, that is responsible for ordering these attacks. You need to discover who this individual or individuals are.

Be it known that I am not advocating physical violence, here. I am, however, advocating in purely psychological, legal, and social terms, bringing down the full wrath of the public upon this individual's head, up to and including causing this individual to lose their job, and/or to be brought on criminal charges and incarcerated.

Occupy also need to have something explained to them about Gandhi. Gandhi has become the face of Hinduism for those within the West who do not know better; but I will tell you that I claim Hinduism as my own faith also, and I have read at least parts of the Mahabarata myself. It is true that Gandhi was committed to the principle of ahimsa or harmlessness, as was the Law for an ascetic; but the Hindu scriptures also say, that a certain portion of the population (the Kshatriya, or kings and military) have a spiritual duty to protect the rest of society; and it is actually considered a violation of ahimsa, if someone either does not go to the aid of another who is being attacked, or if someone allows a known repeat murderer to continue to live, so that they can continue to deprive others of their own lives.

I will re-iterate here, so that there is no misunderstanding. I am not advocating physical violence. Rather, what I am really advocating, is a change in attitude. Occupy must begin to cease viewing themselves as victims, and begin viewing themselves as warriors. They must begin learning about the doctrine of Lawful Rebellion, and the sovereignty movement. More than anything else, they must stop believing that the police and government hold all the cards.

This war is spiritual. Those who attempt to wage it via physical violence, are those who will lose it, on either side. It will still do Occupy no good, however, to passively allow themselves to be utterly destroyed by the police; and at the moment, that is what you are doing. Find out who the police's superiors are, and bring them to justice. Shine the brilliant light of public enquiry upon them. Let them know that their attempts at remaining secret, via their midnight raids, their "need to know," tactics concerning the issuing of orders to the police, and their various other craven, honourless methods of avoiding accountability will ultimately fail; and that wherever they attempt to run and hide, the people's justice will find them.

If you wish to use Hinduism as your example, I encourage that. However, I would also urge you to recognise that in this, Gandhi's attitude was only one perspective. I, and my Goddess, know of another.




Kshatriya dharma. You fight.

POWER to the PEOPLE, POWER to the Occupy Movement.

The SNAKES have been BEATING the PEOPLE down long enough.

Nice weather is coming for a REGROUPING. Fight the good fight.

Occupy movement is too disorganized, they haven't changed anything yet. You seriously need charismatic leaders, otherwise its just gathering of criminals. Look how Egypt did it.

In all fairness to both sides with the NYPD.....They do have a long and rather shameful history of "Red Squad" type behavior and it's a matter of public record. Albeit paper records from way back then... It would seem that under the guise of the Patriot Act, some of that is coming back.

Now, on the other hand, the NYPD and all the other Police Departments pretty well HAVE to be secretive as all get out. First, there are officers within their own force that have mixed loyalties. The only truly successful raid on Zuccotti park came when the Officers themselves thought they were on a training or show of force move until the last few minutes.

Additionally, Occupy has a monitoring ability that the movements of the past couldn't dream of. The cops know that...they can load the same websites as the rest of us. I didn't know how to monitor police from my smartphone before I was with Occupy. Now I have the ability to monitor a staggering range of radio broadcasts from all over the nation and the world...from my PC or many from my phone. How could they operate without the secrecy??

I'm not on either side for this...just thinking we have to keep it real because it's going to get a lot wilder this time than it did in the fall if Occupy actually does reconstitute. It'll be a LOOONG Summer, to be sure.

Originally posted by Thebel
Occupy movement is too disorganized, they haven't changed anything yet. You seriously need charismatic leaders, otherwise its just gathering of criminals. Look how Egypt did it.

But now look what is happening in Egypt, the idealistic protesters have lost out to the Muslim Brotherhood and hard line Islamist groups. Those who start a revolution don't always take the power afterwards.

But I agree the movement is too disorganised. They need to focus on just one topic, picking every problem with global capitalism just leaves you scatter firing. You need to hone in on one target. Probably, getting money out of politics would be the best place to start.

There's a lot of legal battles being fought, perhaps later I'll dig up some links. One of the legal battles fought and won was a federal lawsuit brought against the NYPD maybe even the City itself (not sure) to remove the barricades around Zucotti Park and to not replace barricades as the park is meant to be open to the public 24 hours a day.

Last night after some brutal arrests, the barricades went up in direct violation of that court order. Also the MTA (NYC Public Transportation) sued the NYPD for lost revenues when officers commandeered buses to place arrested protesters in and transport them to jails. The NYPD did this again last night.

I'm really dissapointed with the news articles this morning failing to mention these facts and also claiming that protesters tried to set up tents last night. I was watching a livestream of the happenings and there was one tent, and 1 tarp strung up between trees. The protesters did lose the legal battle to "camp with tents" in Zucotti Park, so the only legit arrests last night would have been against those 2 violations.

One especially brutal arrest last night left a young girl being taken to the hospital. She had been one of hundreds to sit down in the middle of the park and linking arms. She was violently ripped away, thrown to the ground, and kneeled on which resulted in her ribs being cracked causing her to hyperventilate she was left laying cuffed on the ground just behind some barricades unattended, while screams from medics to give her aid were denied, fifteen minutes later an ambulance and paramedics took her away.

Numerous credentialed journalists (as has become norm) were told to get out of the park, repeatedly told to move back or film/photo from across the street, which is a direct violation of the Constitution (Freedom of the Press). Many were physically pushed away after telling officers, "Don't put your hands on me, I am press" and showing their press passes. Completely ignored. This also happened to Legal Observers.

Occupy, nationwide, has many legal victories under it's belt already and more pending. The victories seem not to have changed anything at all in how they are "handled" by cities and police departments. In fact, the police seem to be breaking more law than the Occupiers...I think very soon protest related court cases will overwhelm the system, let's see what happens then.

reply to post by Kali74


This is good to hear, Kali.

It is distressing about the media not giving us that information about the pending court cases. I hope we can rely on you to make relevant threads about them, when you have time and new information to share.

Freedom of Press doesn't entitle Press to do and go where they please...it means that they can say what they want in their publications.

If I were a cop and some fruitcake shoved a press credential, nothing more than a work i.d., in my face...i'd have sent them away with lumps on their head.

and another thing. that park is barricaded because its supposed to be open for everyone in the city...not just a bunch of fake hippies that apparently believe the world is their personal possession and that their message is divinely inspired.

basically the occupiers have made the place uninhabitable...

...its like they cause desolation...

reply to post by michaelbrux


You got me there but it's a bit hard to exercise that right when you can't get near the story eh? There have been many complaints filed against police departments nationwide for suppressing the press and also arresting members of the press and failure to distinguish between press and protesters.

reply to post by Kali74


they should just make up stuff...that's what all press does anyway.

All we need is another spring and summer of filth, violence, drugs, child abuse, and disease from Occupy crowd...AKA the FLEA Party.

reply to post by michaelbrux


Uh-huh so you're okay with the NYPD violating zoning laws, but not okay with Americans protesting? I suppose you're also okay with thousands of protesters being arrested while no one has been arrested for their participation in the collapse of our economy? No one arrested from MF Global for the billions stolen from customers, doesn't bother you? Fake hippies...lol.

reply to post by Carseller4


...and more ignorance, more saying the same old crap...more condoning of rights being stripped away. Hate to tell you but when rights get stripped away they aren't just stripped from "dirty hippies" they're stripped from all of us. Do you all just copy paste your replies? How boring.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

Uh-huh so you're okay with the NYPD violating zoning laws, but not okay with Americans protesting? I suppose you're also okay with thousands of protesters being arrested while no one has been arrested for their participation in the collapse of our economy? No one arrested from MF Global for the billions stolen from customers, doesn't bother you? Fake hippies...lol.

Cops violating zoning laws and young girls hyperventilating is not a major thing for me, no.

People have the right to peacefully assemble and cops have the right to secure public space...

MF Global was a derivatives broker...not a bank...those people who lost their money knew the risk involved in those types of securities or they should have... the collapse of the economy, i assume was tied to the housing crisis and all of these things were ultimately caused for deeper reason which no one is willing to honestly discuss.

and until people decide to explain the REAL reasons for these unfortunate series of events...i could care less...

people steal from me everyday...i'm not making a big stinking deal out of it.

reply to post by petrus4


I doubt I'll do a thread on it, generally good points on Occupy are ignored on ATS plus it's your idea so I'll add some reading material here. Good luck

DailyCal.org

Statesman.com

DailyKos.com

gawker.com

sfappeal.com

nytimes.com (blog)

There's lots more as well.

reply to post by michaelbrux


You are poorly informed and people like you and the pathetic justifications you offer are exactly why we're in the mess we are in today. The billions stolen from MF Global customers had absolutely nothing to do with people choosing to gamble with their money in derivatives. It was theft plain as day a simple search should show you as much. My job isn't to educate you there's plenty of threads on ATS alone capable of doing so, that way you don't even have to go far for info. I won't be replying to you again, it's pointless until you actually read about that of which you speak.

I'd just point out that there is Press and then there is press. That upper/lower p makes all the difference in my experience. Occupy has their Media people, organic to the movement and sporting some mighty impressive streaming gear from Livestream and others. The organic nature is the problem though.

When the "Press" seamlessly puts on the clothes of citizen Journalist just to change back to fully dedicated and committed protester at will and by equipment schedules within Occupy, it isn't 'Press' that can ever expect protection or even the basic lines to be respected. There are no lines when the reporter IS the demonstrator and reports the very same news THEY directly participate in MAKING on a different shift they don't carry the camera.

As for the MAJOR Press and credentialed people...Well, they are like moths to a flame for a story like Occupy. It has Sex, Crime, Passion, Youthful Protest and always drugs...never a shortage of that. What is there not to love for a jaded Press?

Like moths, they get too close occasionally and get burned. At least here, it's a nightstick upside the head as a reminder about objectivity or it's pepper in the eyes for totally forgetting their place as reporters, not protesters. Other nations just see them shot by authorities. We're still worlds away from that. At least there is something good to say.

reply to post by Kali74


Mess we're in?

who's WE?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


nytimesblog

I specifically said credentialed journalists. Citizen journalists though doing a much better job at reporting, often don't have credentials.