Caucus in St. Charles County, Missouri turns ugly

Caucus in St. Charles County, Missouri turns ugly

The cops went up to arrest the guy and everyone started yelling things like, "First Amendment Rights!", ""Defend the Constitution!", "Arrest the chairman!" The cops realized that this could get ugly so they backed off and called for reinforcements. The meeting was stopped until about a dozen or so more cops showed up.

This is a firsthand account of what has happened in St. Charles County, Missouri today. After reading this story, I am really upset. The bad part, is this isn't the only place this is happening. Georgia recently had a similar event take place. These chairmen are violating the rules.

As someone said in this thread, I have a feeling this is going to be a very dangerous summer. The media is reporting that Ron Paul supporters are to blame, but according to many people who were in attendance, Romney supporters were just as involved.

The only thing I can figure out is that maybe this Eugene character and his coharts were Santorum supporters and they saw that Romney and Paul were going to get the majority of the delegates so they decided to stir up this trouble.

Raucous GOP caucus in St. Peters is shut down

St. Peters police arrested two Paul supporters at the scene after they gave them "numerous warnings to leave the school property."

Interesting that the media is saying this because according to eye witnesses, no one was "repeatedly" warned.

We'll see how it all plays out but as of now, no delegates are being awarded in St. Charles County, Missouri.

If anyone hasn't seen what happened in Georgia, this is the video. It sounds like basically the same thing happened in Missouri. The chairman asked for nominations and ignored the popular choice from the People, only to choose his own. The people were upset because they immediately closed convention.

This is Athens County, Georgia:



They attempted to do something similar in Oklahoma but had different results.



I believe that if this continues, we will in fact see a second 'Battle of Athens', only this time it will be nationwide. The establishment is fighting as hard as they can to maintain control. Even Ron Paul has been recorded saying he believes there is voter fraud. Anyone not seeing it is simply not paying attention.



To be fair, today's caucus actions didn't just involve Dr. Paul being robbed but also Romney. However Dr. Paul's supporters are the only ones being focused on by the media. As if they were the ones responsible for the trouble.

I keep seeing certain people swoop in on stories like these and start spouting off things like, Paul is unelectable and Paul hasn't won a state! I wouldn't be a bit surprised if RP has won every single match up and just had it stolen. We should keep a record of all the evidence, fraud and miss handled processes.
,

New video has been released. The audio seems off to me but maybe my speakers are messed up. Either way, the guy was trying to hold a meeting outside to remedy the situation but as you will see, the cops move in and arrest him.

Originally posted by ajay59
I keep seeing certain people swoop in on stories like these and start spouting off things like, Paul is unelectable and Paul hasn't won a state! I wouldn't be a bit surprised if RP has won every single match up and just had it stolen. We should keep a record of all the evidence, fraud and miss handled processes.

I completely agree. There has been some work released that said pretty much that. It related to vote flipping. Even Dr. Paul himself mentioned the fraud that has happened. It's so obvious! It's also why Paul supporters are being encouraged to record everything at the ballots, and delegate meetings.

Originally posted by ajay59
I keep seeing certain people swoop in on stories like these and start spouting off things like, Paul is unelectable and Paul hasn't won a state! I wouldn't be a bit surprised if RP has won every single match up and just had it stolen. We should keep a record of all the evidence, fraud and miss handled processes.
,

edit on 17-3-2012 by ajay59 because: to add

Although I do agree with you, I keep coming back one point.

What do you do with all the evidence?

Fact is the evidence is out there. There are many things happening and no one with the intellect of a billy goat can say this is right and this is how it should be. The problem is, who will enforce our laws? Who is willing to put their neck on the line for what is right?

reply to post by MrWendal


Maybe it will come down to an armed militia at every precinct, in every city from here on out just like the battle of Athens. It's starting to look more and more like that is what it's going to take to get our country back, County by county,city by city and state by state, while we are still able to keep and bear arms!

Since this is breaking news that has just recently happened...I'm trying to find all the information but there isn't much out there.

The two best sources I can find is an examiner article and one from a news channel from St. Louis.

www.examiner.com...

www.ksdk.com...


From what I can read it sounds like this is roughly what happened.

The beginning of the caucus started with the reading of the pre-approved rules, which included disallowing recording devices and cameras by attendees and media.

Boisterous objections broke out after this announcement and things disintegrated from there.

Several participants tell NewsChannel 5 the problem started when a man with a video camera was asked to leave. When he refused, the organizer adjourned the caucus. When several caucusers became upset, organizers called police for crowd control.

While a voice vote was taken to elect the caucus chair, the noise of the crowd clearly did not support the conclusion of the vote as another noisy protest broke out after Matt Ehlen was declared caucus chair.

Unable to bring the crowd under control, there was a motion to adjourn, a quick second followed with an even faster voice vote, and the meeting was ended.

Two people were arrested for trespassing when they refused to leave school property. Brent Stafford, 45 and Kenneth Suitter, 55, were taken to the St. Peters Justice Center where they were booked and released.

The Missouri Republican Party issued a statement late Saturday saying despite today's incident St. Charles County will still be represented at the convention.

GOP Statement:

"Across Missouri, record numbers of Republicans turned out at their local caucuses in a show of support for the Republican candidates for president.

"Given the importance of this election cycle, we understand that emotions run high, but it is important that these caucuses are conducted in a fair, open, and honest manner.

"Today's events in St Charles were unfortunate-and the meeting was adjourned to protect the safety of all participants.

"Moving forward, the State Party plans to reach out to all parties involved. We will come to an agreement to ensure that St Charles County is fully represented throughout the nominating process."

David Cole

Chairman, Missouri Republican Party

You see, that's the biggest part of the problem right there! When recording devices are not allowed, then you know something is fishy. Every single step in any electoral process should be recorded to avoid any chance of vote fraud!

I would encourage every member present to have a camcorder or other type of video and audio recording device!

Originally posted by ajay59
You see, that's the biggest part of the problem right there! When recording devices are not allowed, then you know something is fishy. Every single step in any electoral process should be recorded to avoid any chance of vote fraud!

Yep, it's amazing how bs the whole process is. The whole electoral process should be open, recordable, and verifiable. It's currently not, but should be considering the implications. I can understand banning recording devices in certain venues, like movie theaters or concerts, but to ban devices in the electoral process is incriminating.

It's amazing, how certain people will defend said shady processes as long as it supports their opinion/ agendas. If this was 2000 or 2004, democrats would be screaming fraud.... It's funny how since the fraud supports their "man" it's okay.

They bash the Paul supporters who claim fraud as having no evidence; then continue to bash said attempts to collect evidence.

What's hilarious, is those who bash Paul supporters claiming fraud, are actually supporting a corrupted process. How much evidence does one need to understand that the whole process is fixed... Even if you don't support Paul, you should support an ethical and open election.

Here is more video that was just released. Several of my friends were there and a few of them have videos that they're uploading. I'll post them as they upload them. This whole thing stinks. I attempted to call the Missouri GOP but they didn't answer as it said they were busy. (obviously)





Btw, one of the men arrested, Brent Stafford, was nominated and the crowd overwhelmingly supported his nomination. But the chairman ignored their nomination.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

Btw, one of the men arrested, Brent Stafford, was nominated and the crowd unanimously supported his nomination.

Unanimously????

I find it hard to believe there would be any unanimous vote in a crowd that size.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher



You're right, unanimously was the wrong word. I fixed it.


I'm chasing several news stories and conversations here but as I understand it, people met BEFORE the meeting and worked with Romney supporters to shut Santorum's out. From what I can see, they agreed to nominate Stafford for the chairman position. I'm not altogether positive about this but many of the stories do agree on one point: The temporary chairman ignored the vote from the people and selected his own person from a 'voice vote', which everyone so far has said isn't legit.

Here is a comment from CBS St. Louis:

I was at the St. Charles Caucus. I wanted to say your guys’ news story was a little inaccurate about the cause of the near-riot. The incident with the man who didn’t want to put away his video camera happened probably 15-20 minutes BEFORE the disturbance. What really happened: St. Charles County GOP is 100% Santorum supporters. Their temporary chair decided he would take nominations for caucus chairman, and they took their own Santorum supporter to be chairman and rammed through the vote with a voice vote, which they easily lost but proceeded as though they had won. When our team (Romney) and Ron Paul supporters called for a point of order for the purposes of a hand count, the chairman refused to hear us. This is totally against the GOP rules for caucus in Missouri and Robert’s Rules of Order. Several dozen people at least, on all sides, were screaming for a point of order and the Santorum committeeman temp chair (Eugene Dokes) refused to even acknowledge us. They were trying to ram their delegates through without taking a proper vote. The temporary chair abruptly called the police in and ended the meeting, which is also totally against the rules. So to recap, the disturbance was created when the St. Charles Central Committee (all Santorum supporters) decided to try and ram through names and appoint people without following the rules. I am a Romney supporter and I can tell you Romney and Paul supporters were furious. I have attended four caucuses so far in my life and I have never heard or seen anything like this. Romney and Paul supporters reconvened at Wapelhorst park in St. Charles after this charade to discuss what to do next. All we wanted was fairness. I have never seen anything like this.

Two Arrested At G.O.P. Caucus in St. Peters

Well I guess it comes down to this, you can't fight a gorilla war with 16th century tactics! As much as I hate to stoop to it, anyone out there who has the ability to effect any kind of change, electronically or otherwise do what ever you can to make Paul come out on top all the way to the White house! That goes for Anonymous, if you stand for what you say you do, and have the capability you say you do, let's make this happen! It's no more illegal than what is going on now. No matter what happens or who gets in office, we the people need to impress upon our next leader to shut down the Federal Reserve System at all costs! This is the head of the beast and it must be severed!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Ah, here is a comment from the same CBS link that I just posted:

"I was there as well. The two who were arrested were the camera man who was trying to film the event even though that was supposed to be against the rules. The other guy who was arrested was the guy that the PAUL and ROMNEY camps had mutually agreed they would nominate to chair the meeting because he knew the rules of order and is a respectable guy who would run the meeting by the rules. "

*italics mine*

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

From several accounts I've read and videos, Paul supporters numbered over 300, but were outnumbered by Santorum folks. So Paul and Romney supporters are pooling together to defeat Santorum.

BTW, several good reports from other counties show Dr Paul doing VERY well in Missouri today.

Paul folks showed up today in Missouri, in numbers, knowing the rules/procedures.

Brent Stafford has been released and is posting on the Daily Paul. He has updated but so far it's info we already know. He say's he will update as he gets a chance.

This is Brent Stafford from Missouri

I was trying to reconvene the meeting in the gymnasium, according to the rules, and was told I have the leave the gym along with everyone else or I would be trespassing. I went outside and tried to let everyone know we were going to try to reconvene. Some people we trying to go to a nearby park to do so, but the rules are clear the the caucus may only be held in the location printed in the Call to Caucus printed in a newspaper 15 days prior. The ONLY place we could reconvene was at the high school.

(this is the gentleman that was nominated, but ignored. And then arrested outside)

Could it be only my area or is everyone having refresh issues with the ATS site?

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
Brent Stafford has been released and is posting on the Daily Paul. He has updated but so far it's info we already know. He say's he will update as he gets a chance.

This is Brent Stafford from Missouri

I was trying to reconvene the meeting in the gymnasium, according to the rules, and was told I have the leave the gym along with everyone else or I would be trespassing. I went outside and tried to let everyone know we were going to try to reconvene. Some people we trying to go to a nearby park to do so, but the rules are clear the the caucus may only be held in the location printed in the Call to Caucus printed in a newspaper 15 days prior. The ONLY place we could reconvene was at the high school.

(this is the gentleman that was nominated, but ignored. And then arrested outside)

From what I understand him and the other guy were both released. This Mr. Stafford is apparently at Paul headquarters now and about to do an interview with one of the news stations listed above by several members.. KXXX (dont quite remember what the outlet name was)

The stories are rolling in like crazy. The media is putting their own spin on it being Ron Paul supporters as the problem but many witnesses disagree and are saying the temporary chairman, who is also a Santorum supporter, was ignoring the Roberts Rules of Order and basically not following the rules at all. Here is a fairly lengthy note but well worth the read:

My Saint Charles County GOP Caucus Report 3/17/2012

I shall first start off this report by saying that Bryan Spencer, the Saint Charles County Republican Party Central Committee man who was tasked to organize the caucus told my fellow Ron Paul Coordinator here in Saint Charles at the last Saint Charles County Central Committee meeting, that 'if the Ron Paul people come in and hijack the caucus, I will do everything in my power to throw out the entire delegation on a technicality.'

This is exactly what happened, but first, let me clarify what Spencer means by 'hijack'. There are no rules going into the caucus, aside from Robert's Rules of Order. At the caucus, the temporary chairman opens the meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer. Next, the temporary chairman opens the floor for nominations for a permanent chair in which the entire body of voters votes for. The newly elected chairman opens the floor to nominate a secretary. Then the chairman appoints a parliamentarian, the rules committee, and the credentials committee. The rules are voted on and then the body selects delegates to go to the Congressional District Convention and the State Convention.

So, the key is to organize your supporters into 'slates', which are lists of names of the supporters who wish to be delegates. Ideally, you want to have your slates full, this way, all delegates that go to the conventions will be your candidate's delegates. It is the process of a democratic republic. Organization is the key going into the caucus, and we had came prepared with the only complete slate of delegates. The Romney camp and Santorum camp had incomplete slates. We could have potentially have walked away with all of the 147 of the delegates.

So this is what Spencer means by 'hijack'. There is no rule against having your stuff together and taking all of the delegates. It is the name of the game. We knew the GOP rules going in, and intended to follow them. We know that Spencer was encouraging the Santorum Coordinator to take all of the delegates if she had the numbers, so, it seems that he is okay with his guy getting the delegates, but not ours.

So, when we checked into the caucus, we were asked to vote in a straw poll for the candidate of our choice. Bryan Spencer's claimed intent on this was to proportion the delegates by the votes from the straw poll, but I believe different. I believe that the GOP had a plan in case the Ron Paul supporters showed up with good numbers, and throwing out the delegation was it.

When it comes to a caucus, the body chooses the rules, not the GOP central committee. Before the temporary chairman (Eugene Dokes) opened the meeting, a set of rules was not proposed, but was made binding. One of the rules included was the ban on recording devices. I believe this 'rule' was put in for the reason of raising a ruckus. When that rule was read, it was very clear that everyone, not just Paul supporters, in that room opposed the rule. Boos ensued as well as Bryce Steinhoff, myself, Brent Stafford, and countless others tried making motions to overturn that rule and to put it up for a vote. Eugene ignored the motions, shouts of 'point of order', etc.

After around 20 minutes of deadlock and an eventual submission of the camera owner to turn it off, he opened the meeting by appointing a parliamentarian, appointing the credentials committee, and the rules committee, which are all appointments made by the PERMANENT chair whose has been elected by the body, not the temporary chair. He completely went around Robert's Rules of Order. This is why the GOP did not want the process recorded. Again, they completely ignored parliamentary rule to usher in their chairman.

Next, Dokes opened the floor for nominations for the permanent chair, in complete opposite order than Robert's Rule of Order states. At this time, the whole gymnasium erupted in the call for Brent Stafford to be nominated, which Dokes ignored. Dokes then made his own nomination for chair and then called for a voice vote. The entire gymnasium erupted again with the call for 'division', which is the term that calls for a standing or ballot vote, which was ultimately ignored by Dokes. Dokes's voice vote result was that the "I's'' have it, which was clearly not the case. Dokes then motioned to close nominations, called for a voice vote, and nominations were closed without any recognition of motions from the floor. Then the new 'permanent chair' made a motion to adjourn the meeting, swung his gavel, and it was over.

No delegates were awarded.

(cont.)

(cont.)

Next, we tried to amass the people outside in the parking lot to have our own stump caucus to pick the delegates for the conventions. But the Saint Peters Police came over and arrested Brent Stafford for ''trespassing", as well as Kenny Suitter, the man with the camera.

I go back to what Bryan Spencer said to Bryce at the Central Committee meeting: 'If the Ron Paul people try to 'hijack' the caucus, I will do everything in my power to throw out the entire delegation.

'Did Ron Paul have a majority in the room according to the straw poll at the door? Did the vote counters see this and feared the Ron Paul campaign would be able to elect their chair and walk away with all of the delegates? Did the sight of the Ron Paul Coordinators and the Romney Coordinators brokering a deal worry them that Santorum would not get any delegates?

I know for sure a few people on the Saint Charles GOP Central Committee are Santorum supporters.

The news media is focusing on the guy with the camera who was arrested, but I can assure you that there was more behind this caucus than is being reported.

This is plain corruption.



Joe Wetter

Saint Charles County Coordinator

Ron Paul 2012

My Saint Charles County GOP Caucus Report 3/17/2012

I apologize for the length, but I know you can't read this without being logged in and many ATS members may not have Facebook accounts. Today's events are no surprise but some of the stories I'm hearing are blowing my mind. Like this story, from another source:

BUT if I hadn't turned it off and videotaped the caucus, you all would have been able to see how corrupt and unfair it was. Since when do the police in my county work for enforcing GOP rules?? These were not rent a cops...these were active duty police telling me that the GOP was more powerful than my Constitution and bill of rights. As far as being respectful? You weren't there listening to them verbally destroy Ron Paul and suppress our rights to caucus. The last time I looked, we had the right to vote and to fair elections. What I saw today was NOT a fair caucus but rather a "Shut up and we win!" event. I was actually told by the police that I could NOT leave the room to go to the bathroom! One of the ladies in charge said "For crying out loud, she can go to the bathroom but she can not leave the building" Cops controlling my bathroom visits??? You can sit back if you like and worry about what reflects poorly on you but I realize what is at stake here and will not sit back and let these bullies trample on my rights. I have NEVER been this angry and frightened in my life and now realize the seriousness and the reality of what is really going on in America and what Ron Paul is really up against.