To the troops: We need to reconcile

(Note to mods; please do not delete. This isn't a response to any one single thread; it's a general reaction about the culmination of military attitudes that I've observed on here)

I've been reading a lot of different threads from angry soldiers, who perceive that they are attacked by civilians, on this forum. I've also read threads where civilians have tried to explain to the troops why our attitude towards you is the way it is; I've even written a couple of them myself.

Yet even after all this, I've found that a single question remains. In all of my observation of the military, both here and pretty much everywhere else, the one thing I've observed is an overwhelming tendency for soldiers to view themselves as literally being the epitome of the human race. I know that this attitude seems to be particularly strong among the American Marines; although given my observation of them as one specific organisation, in their case it is difficult for me to entirely disagree with it.

My grandfather was a bomber pilot in WW2, and went on to become a wealthy airline pilot in civilian life. He had four sons; my father and three uncles. All four of them and their children, literally posthumously worshipped the ground Jack (my grandfather) walked on; and as a result of this, I was essentially raised to believe that being a civilian meant inherently being a second class citizen, even though, for a number of reasons (physical, neurological, and psychological) becoming a soldier was never even a remote possibility for me.

This lack of self worth on my own part, with regards to being a civilian, is sufficiently strong that it actually shows up very clearly in my astrological natal chart, for those who know how to interpet such things. I remember that when I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2002, as a result of my experiences with the education system, I felt as though I'd won the lottery, as sick as that might sound; because I know that PTSD is one of the archetypical military disorders, so that allowed me to feel as though in some small way, I was a little bit more like you. I came reasonably close to being killed a couple of times between 1997 and 2007, as well; and that felt good after the fact, as well; for the same reason.

I get the feeling that most of the soldiers here feel that way as well. You basically seem to view your identity in relation with civilians as being parental, almost as though we're children and you're adults; with the further assertion, perhaps, that well-behaved children do not speak unless spoken to, and unquestioningly do as they are told. Given my own upbringing, I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance where that is concerned, because part of me actually believes it as well, and I rail against it.

I feel that the court room exchange between Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men was a particularly clear and powerful, archetypical representation of the relationship between civilians and the military. I've had a large number of arguments with troops during my years online, that have essentially mirrored it.

In the end, though, I've realised that this actually isn't your fault. Neither of us are to blame, here. The government trains you to think about yourselves that way, because they want you to be distant from us, and to have a negative relationship with us. This is because they actually want to be able to use you against us. I know that most of you don't think this, because the government trained you and gives you your orders, as well as in most cases, providing you with the means to live; but the government is actually the common enemy of both you and us.

As civilians, we want to believe that we can have worth in our own right; and that being a soldier isn't the only occupation in existence where a person's actions can have value. That doesn't mean that we want you to feel worthless either; but I get the feeling that the fact that so many of us do look up to you, and particularly unconsciously, is the reason why we rail against you as much as we do. Deep down, we share your opinion that we are worthless in comparison with you, and it really hurts.

All criticism aside, we also do need you to protect us from the government, and at the moment, you're not doing that. The government sends you to other countries in order to help it make money, and then lies to you, that what you are doing is helping us. It isn't. While you're away, the government progressively disarms us more and more, and then when we're defenseless, sends the police (who themselves are increasingly more and more armed) to bash, kill, and falsely arrest us.

I'll never forget one story I read online, about one particular Occupy protest, that had a Marine unit that was actually willing to serve it as a military escort against the police, if necessary. That in our opinion is your real duty to us; and we want to see you doing it a lot more often. If you were to do that, rather than continually going overseas and committing attrocities there in order to help corporations make money, you would find that our opinion of you would become much higher, and much more positive, than it already is.

The civilian population are not the military's enemy. Neither are the civilian populations of other countries. It's the government.

reply to post by petrus4


Nice post At the end of the day though wouldn't you say the government was in the same boat as the people and the military being lied to and led down their respective paths by bankers and corporations? As bad as government is I feel they've just got themselves cornered by more persuasive and stronger powers.

I don't know how you were raised, but YOU the American citizen is the reason, that we serve. At least that is how it is supposed to be.

For me, I like to think that way sometimes, but in reality I just enjoy killing people. Now don't get the idea that I am the typical "soldier". I understand that I am not. In a SHTF scenario I am going to be on the street picking off looters. but if the Govt. tells me I have to go stop people from raiding grocery stores I am going to tell them to go pound sand.

I know this is contradictory, but Hey I can have principals too. I will not kill Americans under orders, but on my free time I will smoke anyone on the street looting.

A lot of soldiers are aware of the hypocrisy going on and will not interfere with Americans protesting a tyrannical regime.

Originally posted by watchitburn
For me, I like to think that way sometimes, but in reality I just enjoy killing people.

I actually have enormous respect for the fact that you're willing to admit this. I can actually tolerate honest psychopaths; what I really dislike is dishonesty.

If more soldiers would say this, ("Screw the politics, we just want to murder the ragheads.") then while it might still be horrible, at least it would be the truth.

First of all, nice post. Very well said. Not all of us think we're gods. Most of us just have pride for our service, exspecially US Marines. What you say about the training is pretty close. The main focus is to have the troops always feel superior to their enemies. And there are alot of troops who have a hard time shifting back into home life without that sense of control or authority. I know because I have personally felt it. I don't like it either and have experienced great change since leaving the service in 2007.

We can see with all the incidents as of late that our military is sort of in shambles at the moment. The numbers of troops waking up to the reality of the current situation is skyrocketing. Ans combat troops are stressed to the max. But there are still good men and women trying to do what they can to work twoards change.

I will admit that there are military members on here (both active and inactive) who still carry those views but I have also seen some of them slowly droping their pride a little and opening their minds. That is possible due to rational discussions like this. Now, when you get a bunch of military guy's fired up they will always protect each other first out of instinct.(not always but usually).

One more thing to remember is that there are a great many of us lying in wait and when the time comes we will stand up and protect the people of this nation. We will do this by protecting our families and our communities and using our extensive training to our advantage. The veterans of this nation are the ticking time bomb that threatens TPTB. The only real question is, How far will they have to push until there are enough to push back. And when the big bad hammer of the dark cabal comes down, if it does, they will have to face the wrath of the American people with the veterans at the tip of the spear.

Thank you for starting this thread. I think alot of these things need to be said and heard and in a rational way such as this.

Semper Fidelis

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by watchitburn
For me, I like to think that way sometimes, but in reality I just enjoy killing people.

I actually have enormous respect for the fact that you're willing to admit this. I can actually tolerate honest psychopaths; what I really dislike is dishonesty.

If more soldiers would say this, ("Screw the politics, we just want to murder the ragheads.") then while it might still be horrible, at least it would be the truth.

The way I see it. It is just like any other job, only people die.I don't hate Muslims anymore than I hate anyone else. I think killing people because of what someone wrote in a book a few thousand years ago is absurd. But killing people for personal gratification is human nature.

And no. I am not better or superior than anyone else. I think i just understand the world on a basic level. I do not have a vested interest in your fate. I will be be fine, that is what I do. Worry about yourself. I am just aware of who I am. I embrace it.

What concerns me is this....if we go to war now....and all of our troops are overseas...how ya gonna stop the looters...UN troops to the US? thats a scary effin thought...

Originally posted by usmc0311
We can see with all the incidents as of late that our military is sort of in shambles at the moment. The numbers of troops waking up to the reality of the current situation is skyrocketing. Ans combat troops are stressed to the max. But there are still good men and women trying to do what they can to work twoards change.

It is extremely encouraging to hear this. I wish I was seeing a little more direct evidence of it on these forums, truthfully; but I'm also aware that it is probably a very difficult thing for some to overcome that distance that they've had trained into them, and admit both to themselves, and to the civilian population, that the government has betrayed them. So I need to try and have some compassion.

I will admit that there are military members on here (both active and inactive) who still carry those views but I have also seen some of them slowly droping their pride a little and opening their minds. That is possible due to rational discussions like this. Now, when you get a bunch of military guy's fired up they will always protect each other first out of instinct.(not always but usually).

This makes a lot of sense. I particularly saw this in the Sniper Squad "SS" banner thread; a number of the troops were basically displaying the attitude that, while they were unsure whether or not there might have been internal wrongdoing, they needed to defend each other from civilian criticism as a main priority, regardless. They probably don't see taking rhetorical bullets for each other, as necessarily being all that different from real ones; other than in terms of magnitude, of course...but the same principle still applies.

If they feel protective of each other in that sense, I think that is something we need to acknowledge; and possibly work on ways that we can discuss what is going wrong inside the forces, without them feeling as though they are being personally attacked.

And when the big bad hammer of the dark cabal comes down, if it does, they will have to face the wrath of the American people with the veterans at the tip of the spear.

I think it is going to. They are going to make their play. When it happens, there will still be a lot of us who are asleep, but I'm hoping that there will still be enough who are aware of what is going on, to successfully repel their final attempt to perpetually enslave us.

An interesting astrological tidbit for you here. The Declaration of Independence was signed during the last transit of Pluto in Capricorn; a transit which is supposed to be about governmental tyranny, among other things. Pluto has now come back to the same position it was in, at that time; it takes about 230 years. The implication is, from what some astrologers have said, that the first time, domestic Americans had to fight purely for the sake of their own freedom; but that this time, they are going to need to do it for the sake of the entire planet, not just themselves, as well.

That is why, even though I am from Australia, I have always been much more interested in American politics. To use The Lord of the Rings as an analogy, Australia and New Zealand are comparable to the Shire; we're not places where a lot is going to happen, that is really going to decide the fate of the rest of the world.

That is America; the term Ground Zero applies in more ways than one. That is where the cabal are either going to win or lose; and if they win there, they will win everywhere else, because that was America's intended role. It is going to be decided there, one way or the other.

Thank you for starting this thread. I think alot of these things need to be said and heard and in a rational way such as this.

I agree.

reply to post by petrus4


Soldiers are people too. They have their own thoughts, morals and ethics.

With that said, I have been in many firefights and have hesitated to pull the trigger because civilians were running for their lives.

I take, taking some one else life very seriously, but can deal with it as well. Such is life in the military.

This is something I have tried to instill in those I led prior to retirement.

My main point I tried to drive home was, "Don't take it personnally when they are shooting at you...it's kill or be killed."

But when the fight is over, render aid.

Even though the person was shooting at you minutes ago, a little bit of kindness can go a long ways.

We're all human after all.