Marines told to disarm before Panetta speech

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

Personally I think this isn't about trusting the 'troops' it was mostly about realizing half of them are going bonkers or are simply holding onto sanity by a thread, and that my dear is not a chance to take when you know how tired and how irked and how 'inhuman' these people have become over the past years of wars and paranoia of constant threat.

He was thinking sane.

i suppose that since this war has lasted longer than WW1 and WW2 combined...the mental condition of the ones that have to be on the wall is a serious concern...

no living person could even imagine the living reality of the front line combatants, nor has anyone they ever met or heard about been able to tell them about such a thing.

and apparently they don't give a crap...

...they still get their direct deposits every two weeks, right?

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

Personally I think this isn't about trusting the 'troops' it was mostly about realizing half of them are going bonkers or are simply holding onto sanity by a thread, and that my dear is not a chance to take when you know how tired and how irked and how 'inhuman' these people have become over the past years of wars and paranoia of constant threat.

He was thinking sane.

Wow - our Soldiers are inhuman? How many do you know exactly?

What experience per chance do you have with the prosecution of war or the profession of arms?

reply to post by Golf66


When I say 'inhuman' I literally mean losing your humanity: the ability to feel sorry for someone after prelonged amounts of constant killing and trying to survive. Ive only met a couple of American soldiers who served in Iraq, and other places, and their accounts of the amount of killing they had to do just to obey orders made me realize, they're far too broken to be considered emotionally stable.

Like my friend who informed me how he had to run over a child in Iraq, simply because he was given the order to not stop for anyone, and she wouldn't move from the street. How her blond hair and blue eyes were stuck in his mind. He has two options now: to live with the weight of a single incident, among many, and the mental strain it has on his mind for the rest of his life, or he can ignore it, forget he killed someone innocent purely for tactical reasons, and 'toughen up'.

Reason suggests that this toughening up that is required of soldiers who are asked to stay under these conditions for long amounts of time, will kill their overall ability to feel sorry for anyone. Their commanders know this, better than anyone. Panetta was just acting out of understanding of the situation. His men are losing it.

reply to post by nusnus


his men aren't losing it.

they just won't care what you think...ever again.

i suppose irrelevance doesn't seem like much now....but give it some time.

reply to post by michaelbrux


Ofcourse they give a crap. Only a soldier understands what a soldier is going through.

Thats why he knew, they're starting to lose it, this last incident is a proof as bright as daylight, and he didn't want to take chances.

It would be best if they took those weapons away from those soldiers for good, and sent them home. For the weapons and the uniform and everything they stand for, has become a burden too heavy for most of them.

Its not like they can get up and say: NO! I don't want to become a part of this charade anymore! So they batten down the hatches and take it, only to explode when they reach their limit.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

Ofcourse they give a crap. Only a soldier understands what a soldier is going through.

Thats why he knew, they're starting to lose it, this last incident is a proof as bright as daylight, and he didn't want to take chances.

It would be best if they took those weapons away from those soldiers for good, and sent them home. For the weapons and the uniform and everything they stand for, has become a burden too heavy for most of them.

but they can't do that...we both know that.

stop living in your fantasy world...

Americans will have to live in a Hyper Militarized society for the foreseeable future...

good luck.

What a message Panetta and company sent the soldiers with move. We don't trust you and we are total chicken #s. My condolences to the Marines who had to endure this humiliation and the wimpy leadership propaganda speech that accompanied it.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by Golf66

 

When I say 'inhuman' I literally mean losing your humanity: the ability to feel sorry for someone after prelonged amounts of constant killing and trying to survive. Ive only met a couple of American soldiers who served in Iraq, and other places, and their accounts of the amount of killing they had to do just to obey orders made me realize, they're far too broken to be considered emotionally stable.

Killing people doesn't make one "broken" unless they haven't the ability to cope with thier actions. I am fine.

Originally posted by nusnus

Like my friend who informed me how he had to run over a child in Iraq, simply because he was given the order to not stop for anyone, and she wouldn't move from the street. How her blond hair and blue eyes were stuck in his mind. He has two options now: to live with the weight of a single incident, among many, and the mental strain it has on his mind for the rest of his life, or he can ignore it, forget he killed someone innocent purely for tactical reasons, and 'toughen up'.

What other reasons are there to kill someone that tactical. That is what we do... Killing a child is not easy for sure. I sympathize with him but he did nothing wrong. Had he stopped the entire convoy could have been killed.

Originally posted by nusnus

Reason suggests that this toughening up that is required of soldiers who are asked to stay under these conditions for long amounts of time, will kill their overall ability to feel sorry for anyone. Their commanders know this, better than anyone. Panetta was just acting out of understanding of the situation. His men are losing it.

Soldiers do not lack empathy as a general rule. I was a Soldier and a Commander - if I had a Soldier who lacked any sense of empahty he'd be in the psych ward and not on duty I can tell you that.

reply to post by Golf66


Well you must have been one tough nut then. My friend still suffers from nights of terror and after being sent home because he lost an eye, has been receiving counseling everyday.

reply to post by el1jah


Hmm really? Odd then that the military has been silent as the Government tramples our rights and liberties freely every day. No opposition, no threats of protest or military stand down in the face of ongoing wars that they have to know they were lied to in order to commit ...

Individual soldiers might be disgruntled.. but as a whole they act like a good dog and keep silent, even when ordered to assassinate American citizens.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by Golf66

 

Well you must have been one tough nut then. My friend still suffers from nights of terror and after being sent home because he lost an eye, has been receiving counseling every day.

It's definitely not a profession for everyone. While I didn't lose an eye I did take shrapnel and I broke my neck on a HALO jump. I am thankful for my ability to compartmentalize well - it led me to be able to be very successful in a 24 year career and several tours with SF.

I am sorry your friend is having issues - there are some good resources out there for vets now.
I hope he is getting all he deserves/needs.

If you U2U me I can help you find the right place to get him help. We have gotten so much better in PTSD management/diagnosis.

That said we can be better.

Please though calling Soldiers inhuman only inflames the hate.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

Scenario 2 is my vote.

Deranged individual spotted.

Could be because the secretary is afraid that an oathkeeper may up hod their oath and defend what they swore to protect.

Oath of Enlistment


I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Since the secretary thinks the UN gives him his orders I can see where it would be a concern...

Congress declares War not the President or the UN.

The last thing any soldier on operations wants is some dickwad politician to turn up to patronise us with his/her crap, and be nothing but a PR stunt for them and a photo op...... ESPECIALLY when it is these twats that sent us there away from our families into hells teeth on a BLATANT LIE!!

Whenever they turn up, it goes through most soldiers heads who is going to frag these arseholes first...

They are hated

Not wanted

And most of the guys would rather lay in their beds for much needed sleep than have to look our best for the sake of some wanker politician...

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Its really sad when individual soldiers have to disarm in the presence of their boss because people's INDIVIDUAL OPINIONS have become a threat to the stability of the nation.

Opinions are just that ...

However when facts are supporting them you have a basis for action that is both lawful and appropriate.

If you take an oath and cant keep it what are you fighting for? .... A paycheck.

reply to post by InfoKartel


can't have too many of me around...everyone focus on me...i'm the problem with the world.

I think the soldiers were ordered to disarm because the local Afghans weren't allowed any weapons. It would look bad if American soldiers were the only ones armed at a press conference about an American soldier that went on a rampage and killed Afghans.