Would it REALLY matter if self aware machines replaced Biological entities in the future ?

Short and to the point, would it really matter if self aware machines replace us in the future ?

What got me thinking about this was a conversation I was having with my son (he's 9) where we were discussing the size of the universe and the part we play within it.

We eventually boiled it down to us (humanity) being a small part of the universe which is in itself, self aware.

That got me thinking about the fact that computer technology is increasing on an exponential level, especially with the concept of up and coming quantum computing, and that in the years ahead, is surely going to bring self aware and very intelligent computers. Capable of learning and making decisions many times faster than we are currently able.

When I envision this, it seems to me that the film Terminator, and Skynet really are not that far removed from a possible real future scenario.

So what of this ?, if intelligent non biological machines (after all we ourselves are biological machines are we not ?) smarter and more capable than we, were to replace us biological entities.....

In the grand scheme of things, as far as the universe is concerned.. would it really matter ?

only to the biologicals of that time.

Who's to say it hasn't gone full circle? Biological to machine back to biological self replicating machines ie us? Ala (the new) battlestar galactica.

reply to post by Riakennor


Good question. In fact, most people here at ATS don't realize that transhumanism is the the goal of TPTB. And most of this crazy conspiracy crap is a direct result of TPTB's ancient goal of being god(s). Once we have gone terminator, we will have god like powers; the ability to transcend space and time. so..there will be a big difference from how we view the world(COSMOS) now, and how we are viewed by other life forms. can you even imagine what it would be like to have that kind of power???

well..we don't have to worry because this technology will not be available to most of us, even though we helped create it.

if that is what happens then it would just be evolution on a universal scale... we are only small small parts of a large system and who are we to say we are not the beginning of the process....

Hopefully one day the entire universe will obtain concienence yes we may have to evolve through many things "borg" but I tend to believe more in Issac Asimov's perception of humanity.

reply to post by Riakennor


I like the idea of self aware, sentient, cognizant machine super intelligence.
I strongly recommend reading some of Iain Banks Culture series based on the idea of a cultural society run by god-like intelligent machine space ships dozens of miles long, that allow species to use them as cities.
Not all self aware machines need be bad, or good, or even care.

Further, if machine intelligence is feasible, there's certainly room for overlap, and trade off in running the 'software' on hardware instead of wet-ware/meat, which opens up doors for trading in our frail bodies for something more durable, or providing more durable, long-lasting hardware solutions to our failure prone meat level design.

Would MAN then be their GODS and would man be then responsible for their activities within this little universe if they got off world and began influencing other biological creations in a negative way? Must be careful

Originally posted by Riakennor
Short and to the point, would it really matter if self aware machines replace us in the future ?

What got me thinking about this was a conversation I was having with my son (he's 9) where we were discussing the size of the universe and the part we play within it.

We eventually boiled it down to us (humanity) being a small part of the universe which is in itself, self aware.

That got me thinking about the fact that computer technology is increasing on an exponential level, especially with the concept of up and coming quantum computing, and that in the years ahead, is surely going to bring self aware and very intelligent computers. Capable of learning and making decisions many times faster than we are currently able.

When I envision this, it seems to me that the film Terminator, and Skynet really are not that far removed from a possible real future scenario.

So what of this ?, if intelligent non biological machines (after all we ourselves are biological machines are we not ?) smarter and more capable than we, were to replace us biological entities.....

In the grand scheme of things, as far as the universe is concerned.. would it really matter ?

Thankyou OP very valid an interestin subject .Here is the deal super intellegent entitys will replace us .Not machines though for they will infact be us me you if we are lucky.The advances made in nano tech wich can build self replicating microscopic copys of themselfs an A I Artificial Intelegence is going to revelutionise our exictence in the cosmos..Its inevitable an refered to as the singularity.With nanotech I B M have been moveing single atoms about since early 90s.Now with quantom computers a reality for the first time our evoulution as a species knows no bounds .We will intergrate with this new life form.Nano tech drven by quantom computers will be able to copy exactly every strand of our D N A .Every atom an synyax in our body nurons every thing .Also with the power to manipulate atoms our decendants couls make food from garbage .Not that we will need food .We can manufacture bodys with our basic personalitys but alligned with A I artifical intellegence. Our capabilitys will go through the roof ,We can travell to distant stars for in essence we will ne immortal,No need to fear hostile planets or enviroments as we will bio engineer bodys that can resist the harshest of whatever nature can through at us .We can build millions of tiny fleets of nanobot that placed in a craft can journey to stars an build dyson spheres around them .Awaiting our arrival.Also because we will be super intellegent beyond our choprehension,We can also choose to retreat into any memorys in our brains .Thease are not memorys as we have today but more like the holodeck on star treck.We can make new lives in our virtual brains every bit as rral as the physical world we perceive around us today.This is not S F but something actually happening .Its almost inevitable we take this next stem in evelutin.Rather than leave it to natural selection...Hear is a Link to someone more knowlagable than the comeing singularity than me yudkowsky.net...

reply to post by Riakennor


Actually I disagree depending on what you are talking about. Self-Aware generally means that these machines would have free willt and given the fact that an Android , Replicant or artificially intelligent robot would be far stronger then the average member of the so called elite , It's entirely possible that the machines would overthrow them. Now if we are talking about just high priced cybernetic attachments then yes your view upon what would happen would be possible if not highly likely.

My DVD player does not love me.

How can you program emotions, feelings, love?

Even if you remove our essense, or brain, or whatever to place in mechanical bodies taht far out live our current state, you will remove feelings as you no longer have pain, sex, love, passion, anything really.

So yes, I would prefer to live, love, and die. Being in a cold metal shell (would it be cold? doubt it) sounds like hell.

and if they kill us all and logically take over, well.. so be it right? There are better things to think about in my opinion, this is stretching reality a tad.

slight corrrrrectin to above post quanton computers as yet not up an running but will be in short order,THIRTY YEARS MAX ,possabllly 5 to 10 years minimamm....Its said with the advent off quantom computers,ALL the data on every computer in the entire world ,Thats my computer your computer goverments computers ,Basicly every single peice of data in the entire worlds computers could be stored on a device the size off the sharp point of a needle....Makeing microchips look like lumbering bemoths.An within a decade of the first qauntom computer being switched on ,It will be able to store more information than exists in the entire universe,Not only every planet every star but every atom quark photon every single peice of info in the obsevable universe......Gee whiz....

Only if souls matter.

What would we desiree to achieve? what would be important? how could anything be meaningful? would there be any sensation of what we now know as feeling or emotion?

reply to post by Eavel


Interesting... so would you say that an artificial intelligence would be incapable of Love ?

Personally, I don't see any reason why not. Could you elaborate ?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Only if souls matter.

I have to admit, it never even crossed my mind about souls. You have hit upon a very good point indeed.

Does the fact that we're biological enable us to have a soul ? is it because we're of a chemical rather than electrical makeup ?

After all, whether it's chemical or electrical, it's all still a movement of atoms is it not ? and if we look at it as us being the children of Mother Earth, this is only because we're made of the chemical elements from the earth.

Whatever the makeup of the future entities, they'll still be a bi-product of Earth - The Universe. Does it make a difference ?

**edit** I say Electrical above, but as ecossiepossie so aptly put it. We might be dealing with things on a nano/quantum level. It's worth thinking about for sure

reply to post by Riakennor

As we understand it the soul is a multidimensional entity that is your ID your ego.Based on popular information it is used through many life times.What you are describing are robots, however intelligent,nothing more.You can perhaps determine the energy that comprises the soul and contain it but this reality bites.I can only imagine it would be like prison for your higher self.

That increasing computer technology will "surely" bring about self aware and intelligent computers in the years ahead, I think is a bit precocious to say. We only have theories of how human consciousness exists and haven't even gotten close replicating the hardware to produce that.

I think some have the idea that computer speed is important for AI when that's really not the case. Or have the idea that AI would unfold naturally given a computer with, for example, the processing power of the human race. Take anyone's laptop today, multiply it by whatever, chances are AI isn't going to spring up.

We could be mechanical bioorganisms as well.

As far as the universe is concerned? She does have her bad days I suppose.

Originally posted by Turq1
That increasing computer technology will "surely" bring about self aware and intelligent computers in the years ahead, I think is a bit precocious to say. We only have theories of how human consciousness exists and haven't even gotten close replicating the hardware to produce that.

I think some have the idea that computer speed is important for AI when that's really not the case. Or have the idea that AI would unfold naturally given a computer with, for example, the processing power of the human race. Take anyone's laptop today, multiply it by whatever, chances are AI isn't going to spring up.

We could be mechanical bioorganisms as well.

As far as the universe is concerned? She does have her bad days I suppose.

edit on 14-3-2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)

I wouldn't say it's that precocious, I think it's inevitable.

Here's an interesting video for you to watch

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Riakennor

 

I like the idea of self aware, sentient, cognizant machine super intelligence.
I strongly recommend reading some of Iain Banks Culture series based on the idea of a cultural society run by god-like intelligent machine space ships dozens of miles long, that allow species to use them as cities.
Not all self aware machines need be bad, or good, or even care.

Further, if machine intelligence is feasible, there's certainly room for overlap, and trade off in running the 'software' on hardware instead of wet-ware/meat, which opens up doors for trading in our frail bodies for something more durable, or providing more durable, long-lasting hardware solutions to our failure prone meat level design.

2nd the suggestion of Ian M Banks.

Also Neal Ashers 'Polity' books. On a similar theme but a little less heavy, more action/black humour focused. Earth is the centre of a massive civilisation known as the polity run by AIs. There was no AI armageddon they just naturally took over as they were better at everything.

Interesting concepts:

Haiman - Humans and Ai merged.
Golem - Dead Humans transplanted into android bodies where the price of the body is covered by a period of indentured service after the transplant.
Reifications - Dead humans reanimated in their dead bodies using nano-tech to keep the dead body ticking along. Like an intelligent zombie.

To be honest Ashers Polity and Banks Culture are as close to our ideal as I think we'll ever manage. They are best case scenarios.

reply to post by Riakennor


Why is it that the scientists that degrade the significance of humanity are rather toadish themselves? Seems awfully convenient and biased, ironically.

The notion of "humanity" is inherently unique to humans I think it's fair to say. The problem is anthropomorphism, we apply what we know about ourselves to AI. An AI that can self reflect and is aware of itself would not appear human. But the way this scientist views it, it would seem he's aiming to purposely direct AI to becoming human-like - that's not AI and that's not human.

He's not impressed with humanities achievements...yeah for one, modern medicine that's probably saved his butt a couple of times isn't anything too impressive.

The concept of "want" or "need" are anthropomorphised as well. Why would AI "want" to wipe out humanity, like he seems to think?