New Footage 9/11 Second Tower Explosion Incredibly Clear Video From Helicopter - Where Is The Plane?

reply to post by Beldy

I'm wondering how you know this for sure? How could these people who I assume did not work for these airlines get flight load information?

This is, I admit, an assumption. However, if you want to dig deeper (maybe via FOIA requests) the names of the hijackers would (if they booked with those same names previously) have been investivgated in the airline's records from weeks and months before 9/11.

So, NO.....they (hijackers) did not have the airline company's own internal passenger traffic records (which, for competitive reasons, are not usually broadcasted).

But, you realize.....before 9/11, a person could go past security without a Boarding Pass.....you DO recall this, right?

All one would need to do is case flights, from the Gate departure area....and merely count the people getting on-board. They could have bought tickets of course, too......and flown the flights, to count that way.....THAT is what I meant by "casing". It has another term....."research".

But, as already pointed out.....the light passenger loads are irrelevant, in the longer view, of the outcome. OTHER airplane hijackings have historically occurred with fairly full airplanes. Just do the research.

BTW....there is another highly-publicized boondoggle that is latched onto by many in the so-called "truther movement", and it relates,to a bit of confusion that surrounds United 93. NO "confusion" for those of us more educated on the details...but, it lingers as a "meme" out there.....it is the confusion at Cleveland, and it is about Delta Flight 1989.

Here is the Wiki entry about Delta 1989......a case of mistaken identity, basically.

I bring up DAL 1989 only for this reason:

It was a B-767....actually, a 767-300, so had MORE seats (longer fuselage) than either of the B-767-200s involved in the 9/11 attacks....(AAL 11 or UAL 175).

Here is a personal experience written by a passenger on DAL 1989.

And.....while I can't find the correct "key words" to search, somewhere on the Internet is a site that has the number of passengers on DAL 1989.....ALSO form Boston to Los Angeles (Just like AAL 11 and UAL 175).

The number of passengers on THAT flight was also very low......

Search, and perhaps you will find what I saw once....still searching......(Or just ask Delta!!)

Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by burntheships

CNN: 'No evidence of a plane crashing anywhere near the Pentagon'
www.freedomfiles.org...

Piece of wreckage WAY to small for Boeing 757

But it fits THIS and so does the landing gear and the engine... the SINGLE engine found...

Engine rotor at Pentagon

A REAL 757 engine...

Global Hawk engine....

Single hole at Pentagon

Boeing 757's do not just vaporize with no bodies, no luggage no debris and no hole that fits a plane...

edit on 15-3-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

I think I would prefer to go with the findings of aerospace engineers on this one :-

www.aerospaceweb.org...

First of all, this isn't a new footage, it's been there for a long time. It's also been debunked, you need to look at it carefully. It isn't easy to see a fast object, in these frames ...

What is more interresting, is the woman's reaction ... how she talks. If it is genuine, it sure does give reason to inspect this. This isn't the first video or footage, that show that people had foreknowledge of what was to come, there are many out there, that do. Footages of people saying the towers needed to be demolished, talking about their demolition, even before the fact, etc.

reply to post by Alfie1


By all means, go by the aerospace engineers on this one ... but remember, they are engineers and not physicists.

First of all, what is suspect is that you find a single small piece of an engine, that is made to sustain enormous heat. On every crash site in history, you find multiple large parts of the engines. Except here, you find the plane "vapourized". Which is physically impossible ...

I'm not gooing to waste my time argueing with you, except to throw out the obvious to you.

If you really think, that a plane can vapourize ... you should start taking some brain stabilizing drugs, seriously speaking. Because, you are living in la-la land. You are basically being a religious fanatic, who is listening to his priest talking about miracles and god almighty.

Because what you are talking about, is nothing short of a miracle ... vapourisation of titanium alloys, and heat sustaining alloys, that are to withstand heat that is several factors that of a burning kerosine.

I don't care what you believe, if you wanna believe go to church, pray to your allah ... and by all means, go ahead and blow yourself up in the name of your allah. The rest of us, like me, deal with facts ... and we have the dignity and character, to stand by our search for the truth, and we do not get side tracked by threats, intimitation on our lives, and livelyhood. And make no mistake, WE do live under a constant threat, by government officials wherever we are, that threaten our livelyhood on daily basis, because we do not fall in line with the official truth. And this fact, above all other facts, tells me that by doubting the official 9/11 story, we are on the right track.

So if you want to make a difference, throw away your religion and search for the truth ... until you lay down that official miracle story, of paper being thrown out of steel buildings and surviving fire, and titanium alloys being vapourised in a smoke of kerosine ... you can simply go home to your la la land.

Originally posted by Alfie1
I think I would prefer to go with the findings of aerospace engineers on this one :-

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
www.ae911truth.org...


There ya go

Originally posted by ProudBird
SIGH.....@2:15...upper right corner.
THAT is United 175.
Watch it again.

If this was a UFO video I bet you would be the first to call it a bird or dirt on the lens


Say listen... you claim your a pilot, right?

What do you think of these guys? I see some impressive names on that list

Pilots for Truth about 9/11

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe who have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day based on solid data and facts -- since 9/11/2001 is the catalyst for many of the events shaping our world today -- and the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers or facts.

We stand with the numerous other growing organizations of Firefighters, Medical Professionals, Lawyers, Scholars, Military Officers, Veterans, Religious and Political Leaders, along side Survivors, family members of the victims -- family members of soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice -- including the many Ground Zero workers who are now ill or have passed away, when we ask for a true, new independent investigation into the events of 9/11. We do not accept the 9/11 Commission Report and/or "hypothesis" as a satisfactory explanation for the sacrifice every American has made and continues to make -- some more than others.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

reply to post by havok


YUP!

I find it frustrating that peoples imaginations get away from them when the truth is complicated enough, You don't see the plane because it is approaching from an 11 to 5 o'clock angle. None of the official story adds up. Those buildings were definitely not brought down in the manner we are told they were and there was far more at play here than just plane collisions and falling towers. But to question the existence of two planes in the first place makes it laughably easy for TPTB to make us all look like morons.

Originally posted by Caidema
A lot of people even refuse to look at the evidence, my entire family are pro-Bush.

Well well well, so your entire family is pro-Bush? There are lots of weird mysteries surrounding the Bush family... Informations shows that the Bush family FINANCED Hitler's war campaign!

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power www.guardian.co.uk...
www.rense.com...

Both Bert Walker and Prescott Bush were powerful FINANCIAL SUPPORTERS of Adolf Hitler!

George W. Bush Jr. admitted he is a member of Skull and Bones , yeah, FREAKING SKULL and BONES!
George W. Bush Sr. and Jr. are allegedly among "the elite" who participate at Bohemian Grove, and on their way to Bohemian Grove they're probably sitting in their car and airplane, snorting two lines of coc aine, probably smoking Marijuana, and DRINKING and singing >>I wish that all could be California>I'd have sexual relationship with that woman Ms. Lewinsky, i told anybody to lie>Let me tell you something...

reply to post by bjarneorn


Who said the plane "vapourised" ? Only truthers.

Plenty of pics of aircraft wreckage in the Pentagon :-

www.rense.com...

reply to post by pshea38


I suggest you get back on your tablets asap how do you think it was faked so what was faked in your opinion.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

So scale it down. Try throwing...oh say an oil drum full of petrol (gasoline/kerosene) at a steel reinforced brick wall as hard as you can, while igniting the fuel and see what the effects are. Scale it down even further if you will. A cola can full of same fuel at a brick....who comes off worse? Hell if you wanna get freaky, try a block of ice on a steel plate like the Titanic was made from. Get my drift? Fake, fake, fake...

edit on 14/3/12 by LightSpeedDriver because: Typo

edit on 14/3/12 by LightSpeedDriver because: Typos again...

You cant scale material analysis down, it doesn't work that way (which is a very basic rule).

The math does not lie....

using 35,000 lbs/15875 kg and 250mph/111 meter/second equals 1,762,125 newton's of force.

250,000lbs/113,398kg and 500mph/223 meter/second gives you 25,287,754 newton's.

Get my drift?

I have also worked through Zdenfk Bažant's collapse mechanism that the OS is partly based on and find it to be in perfect agreement with the facts as opposed to baseless supposition.

Have you?

Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions

Can't scale analysis down?....a basic rule?...Do tell, a basic rule of what and who says?

Buddy or possibly Budette
You could in answer to the question at hand by posting such, which is totally incomprehensible and completely inapplicaple regarding this debate, try to sway the average reader here who are generally non technical folks, around to agree with your point of view...

Or, you could fill your wood stove with a nice load of fine hardwood, and pour in a goodly amount of kerosene, and then you could throw in a match and sit back with your honey and enjoy a fine blaze in that hearth....
Millions of people do that day after day after day....

Also in the absence of the courage it takes to hold a short little match to the kerosene, you could roll up the paper that arguement was printed on, and light one end of it, and hold the other end, so that while playing with fire, you don't get burned....

As fine an attempt at debating as it is, it is just plain over the average persons head...and i don't think NIST or the 911 commision which had so many of its members repudiate its own findings, ever relied upon it either.
It certainly doesn't negate the witness accounts of the underground explosions heard and felt by so many pre impact.

Space beams would be a good example of a truther arguement that is comparable ...
I suppose both arquements cancel earch other out and should be removed from the field of play.

At some point reality has to be referred to.

It is a possiblity that the video in the OP is slightly fraudulent...some people will resort to any lengths to win an arguement...but eventually reality will set in and such tactics may backfire on the perpetrator of its creation.

I say perpetrator because either way MURDER was committed...and much more MURDER was comitted based on this event...and by the looks of things there is more MURDER to come as well.

Bin Laden WAS NOT buried at sea, but flown to the U.S. for cremation at secret location, claims intelligence boss in leaked email

Emails purported to be obtained by hacker group Anonymous dispute White House version of terror leader's final resting place

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Now the fine people who claim they killed Bin laden, ( who they claim commited this atrocity, athough only Israelis were arrested and charged) and who claim they buried his body at sea, may have been caught lying yet again.
After the famous photo of them watching the event on TV was proven fake...Now THIS!

They are supporters of the OS, and THEY NEVER seem to be telling the truth. This is very discrediting to other fine people who support the OS too....
It is hard not to tar all supporters of the OS with the same brush when you see such false hoods time after time after time.

I wouldn't put it past these repeat offenders to post a doctored video like the one we are examining in the OP, which might be in an attempt to discredit the truth movement.....It isn't like they haven't been caught using this tactic before...

I mention this because Osama is supposed to have masterminded this whole event including the stand down of Norad, and yet he was NEVER charged for it...one wonders why we even have the forum of a court of law at all if jourisprudence isn't to be called upon in a matter of such a GRAVE an import as this is.


On the other hand maybe dead Osama edited this video while in his cave, or while hanging out down the street from the whole military industrial complex in the US's ally in the war on terror, Pakistan

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by bjarneorn

 

Who said the plane "vapourised" ? Only truthers.

Plenty of pics of aircraft wreckage in the Pentagon :-

www.rense.com...

there is a plane in there?

maybe in the shot of the disembodyied landing gear with the chocks in place
but then the photo doesn't show one, so maybe not

to be considered a truther one has to be inquiring of the truth.
this is why those in opposition to the OSers such as yourself are called truthers

reply to post by zorgon


You post stuff like this and then wonder why truthers get no where.

Did you photoshop the image of the Global Hawk?

Here is the link to the origional picture.

Are you a paid shill from ae911?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by zorgon

 

You post stuff like this and then wonder why truthers get no where.

Did you photoshop the image of the Global Hawk?

Here is the link to the origional picture.

Are you a paid shill from ae911?

edit on 15-3-2012 by samkent because: (no reason given)

truthers getting nowhere?
well that appears to be slightly inaccurate...

Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story
Only 16% now believe official fable according to New York Times/CBS News poll
Truth Movement has the huge majority of opinion
How will the Bush Cabal react?

www.prisonplanet.com...
and the numbers of OS believers has shrunk mightily with time since then....

The average reader has no real way to determine which photo is "photoshopped"
Regardless Zargon illustrated quite well the ease with which one of those drones could be camoed up to fool witnesses...into thinking it was what the photo Zargon posted shows it gussied up to be.

reply to post by Danbones

truthers getting nowhere?
well that appears to be slightly inaccurate...

Why is it that when I turn my computer off the truther movement disappears?

Wouldnt the plane approach from the sea and therefore be hidden by the tower from that angle? How about we focus on who else was involved, then they can give you further details on the event.

reply to post by burntheships


Original story came from BBC (another screwup by these Brit clowns)

Was later corrected yet the lunatic fringe contnues with the original incorrect version - same as the story that
United 93 landed in Cleveland, was incorrect report and soon corrected , but there are those who persist

Confusion was over translating Arabic names to English and confusion over those with simlar name

You probably won't hear about the key differences between the alleged hijackers and the individuals who came forward after 9/11, either. The pilot Waleed al-Shehri who came forward after 9/11 has a different name to the hijacker, for instance. The Salem al-Hazmi who appeared in the press post the attacks is 26, the hijacker was 21.

We’ve carried the full report, executive summary and main findings and, as part of the recent fifth anniversary coverage, a detailed guide to what’s known about what happened on the day. But conspiracy theories have persisted. The confusion over names and identities we reported back in 2001 may have arisen because these were common Arabic and Islamic names.

In an effort to make this clearer, we have made one small change to the original story. Under the FBI picture of Waleed al Shehri we have added the words "A man called Waleed Al Shehri..." to make it as clear as possible that there was confusion over the identity. The rest of the story remains as it was in the archive as a record of the situation at the time.

We recently asked the FBI for a statement, and this is, as things stand, the closest thing we have to a definitive view: The FBI is confident that it has positively identified the nineteen hijackers responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Also, the 9/11 investigation was thoroughly reviewed by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the House and Senate Joint Inquiry. Neither of these reviews ever raised the issue of doubt about the identity of the nineteen hijackers.
www.bbc.co.uk...
.

..Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens...
Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.

"The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."
.

reply to post by Gestas


Have it wrong - Empire State Building was overbuilt as was practice at the time


Exterior facade of ESB was 8 inches of cut limestone over 8 inches of brick work - in fact Pentagon exterior
was built of same materials

ESB had steel columns about every 30 ft, the steel work was encased in several inches of terracotta masonry

WTC had all support colunns grouped around central core with no columns between exterior wall and center

Fireproofing at WTC was substandard - only 1 1/2 inch of spray on fireproofing, which easily peeled off

Also forget difference in planes

ESB - B25 bomber converted into transport, weight 20,000 lbs, speed 180 mph

WTC - Boeing 767, weight 300,000 lbs, speed (WTC 1 470 mph, WTC 2 530 mph estimated)

Energy level at WTC was 100 times that at ESB

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The same stories...it is as if someone new finds the internet and thinks they found the smoking gun. There is only one thing that is needed to set a new investigation in play...physical evidence.

Where is the piece of the global hawk or the residue from explosives or a wire from a trigger? Something...anything...they are still finding human remains to this day but nothing new comes up.

As far as the truth movements, 1000's of dollars raised and all it did was allow them to stay in nice hotels and live off your dreams and donations. Lemmings...

The Pentagon....slam dunk. Witnesses and wreckage. WTC..slam dunk...witnesses and wreckage...these are the stories that are always discussed and argued...

Shanksville- NO witnesses and wreckage...this is the one that we do not know what happened yet is talked about the least. Made a movie, got a tag line and fade to the background......

This video shows nothing new..the plane would have been behind the building...