Drive a Gas Guzzler? Think about this.

I still don't understand why we are pursuing the use of fossil fuels.

The pipeline being layed in Azerbjhan (spl) which goes from the Caspian Sea to the Mediteranean Sea, goes through Azerbjhan, Georgia and Turkey. The estimated output of this field is 200 Billion Barrels, at $40 a barrel thats, 8000 Billion Dollars (maybe a trillion comes in there somewhere).
Land is being bought off of locals at very cheap rates local armies are being trained to guard the pipeline, although the head of villages seem to be happy (due to pay offs I guess) the villagers themselves reap no reward and are very worried about contamination from a pipeline breakage or sabotage.

Q: Why pursue such a dirty fuel, when there are technologies that can provide the same uses with a far lesser detremental effect to the environment?
A:Money and more importantly Control, the environment is way down the list.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by Koka]

Frankly, I think crude oil serves no purpose except as we find uses for it. There is a finite supply, so it would only make sense that we should use it wisely. I'm not an 'envioronmentalist," but, like most folks, I don't think pollution benefits the greater good.

As far as the kind of vehicles people choose to drive, it just makes me wonder why people feel the need to drive a massive truck when a van or sedan will do. SUVs are the vehicualar equivalent to the platform shoes and shoulder pads, if anyone here is old enough to remember those.

[edit on 04/9/22 by GradyPhilpott]

No worries. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is no fuel shortage. Vegetable oil with a backyard chemical process is suitable for any diesel engine. Gasoline engines will need modification, but they'll run better on alcohol than they ever have on gasoline. There will be no food shortage if that happens, because vegetable oil exists in every weed and algae. We eat about 3% of our corn, the rest is for animal feed. Animals also eat grass. Problem solved.

Hydrogen could work, but is the process worth it? The only clean way to make hydrogen is through electrolysis of water, and even then you are wasting half of the energy that goes into it. Even then, the power is likely to come from coal. It's not the easy problem people make it out to be. Hydrogen leaking into the atmosphere in mass levels could be as bad for the ozone layer as CFC's.

Question:

How much corn to make a gallon of ethanol?

Answer: about 40 lbs., of feedstock quality grain..

And it doesn't take millions of years.


really pisses off the "revenuers" though

[edit on 22-9-2004 by spacedoubt]

I would have never thought of figuring out the actual fossil fuels required to produce gasoline - makes you think about things from a different perspective....

Good point.. although in my view, what else would all that oil be used for if we didn't have a need? Were we supposed to put the tail-end of the industrial revolution on hold so that the world's oil stores could sit dormant in the depths of the earth?

In my opinion there has been not yet been an efficient alternative to "fossil fuels". Every single "alternative" would require a massive paradigm shift in technology, world-wide. Hydrogen, solar, electric, etc- the implications of all of this goes far beyond the family car.

We're talking about construction vehicles, military vehicles, commercial airplanes, you name it. We'd have to have new "refueling stations/power sources" installed WORLDWIDE. The shift would require so much money, time (for R&D as well as manufacturing), and resources, that it would be inefficient to begin the process.

While I wish things could be different, they aren't. And as long as the "fat cats" are making money off of fossil fuels, and as long as the oil economy remains reliable things won't be different for a long time.

How much corn to make a gallon of ethanol?

Answer: about 40 lbs., of feedstock quality grain..

And it doesn't take millions of years.

How much money does it take to make a gallon of ethanol? How many barrels of ethanol can you reliably generate PER DAY, and how much would it cost to take this process and apply it to the world market? How much would the industrial machinery cost to do so? Furthermore, how would you go about making the transition from oil to ethanol on the world market?

MK

[edit on 22-9-2004 by MKULTRA]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Frankly, I think crude oil serves no purpose except as we find uses for it. There is a finite supply, so it would only make sense that we should use it wisely. I'm not an 'envioronmentalist," but, like most folks, I don't think pollution benefits the greater good.

As far as the kind of vehicles people choose to drive, it just makes me wonder why people feel the need to drive a massive truck when a van or sedan will do. SUVs are the vehicualar equivalent to the platform shoes and shoulder pads, if anyone here is old enough to remember those.

Grady, we had our share of disagreements, but now I feel like bying a 24-pack of beer for you

Yes I'm old enough to remember the platforms and shoulder. Yesterday was my BD party. I'm 40 now

Originally posted by Aelita
Grady, we had our share of disagreements, but now I feel like bying a 24-pack of beer for you

Yes I'm old enough to remember the platforms and shoulder. Yesterday was my BD party. I'm 40 now

Happy Birthday, Aelita. Lighten up. There are posters here who weren't born when I turned forty. You are likely to learn more about the world in the next ten years than in the last forty. Keep truckin'.

Is it anyway possible to creat an engine that relies solely on magnets? You know, like a block connected to a rod inside a magentic field that makes it spin infinitely. It would use no energy at all. I've heard of these... but heard they were all either frauds, or just wouldn't be efficient enough. I don't know... I'm too inexperienced about mechanics and physics to say anything about that.

Also, Solar Cells would be an ingenious way to power the electrolysis of water, don't you think? The earthly average of Solar Radiation is about 1 Kw/H of energy per meter squared. Of course this is different in different places and situations. Also, the production of solar cells is quite expensive, but maintanence is little to none, and solar cells can last a good 40-50 years without problems. Too bad the highest efficiency is still only at around 21%. The highest is made with crystalline silicone. Pretty simple process actually. Superheat sand, add Oxygen, end up with CO2 and Silicone. (Can't forget impurities are added. Boron in the upper layers... and I forgot the lower).

I just finished taking a yearly course dedicated to alternative fuels and the conservation of energy. The only appealing ones in terms of reliability, efficiency, and pollution output are Hydrogen Fuel Cells, Solar, and Nuclear (Fission or Fusion, either one is good). Could nuclear plants not be run by machinery/robotics?

[edit on 9-22-2004 by WaStEdDeAtH777]

[edit on 9-22-2004 by WaStEdDeAtH777]

You should look into the Newman Motor. It's quite controversial. Newman claims there is a conspiracy against him and that the US Patent office is wrong to deny him a patent. The Patent Office doesn't give patents for "perpetual motion machines. Newman claims his device is not a "perpetual motion machine."

Links:

www.josephnewman.com...

www.josephnewman.com...

www.phact.org...

www.google.com...


[edit on 04/9/22 by GradyPhilpott]

I could make a motor that runs purely on permanent magnets, however many tiny electromagnets as there are permanent magnets, and a watch battery. It could be as large or small as you like and regenerate its own power as well as plenty more than that. The problem is that permanent magnets aren't really that permanent, they demagnetize when you do that. Second law of thermodynamics.

If you think the world market can't be transferred to ethanol, you're wrong. Brazil has done it and there's no reason the rest of the world can't. It will probably take thousands of small ethanol producers in third world countries and otherwise, it's done mostly by small producers in Brazil. It is most easily produced from crops high in sugar, like sugar cane, which grows remarkably well in third world countries near the equator. A still is not a complicated device.. it's a boiling pot with an exhaust pipe filled with tiny tubes or beads, and at the top purified alcohol condences. Go to journeytoforever.org and read about it if you care to. It's not impossible, or even hard. It's just a matter of doing it. How many people here know that in America we make cars, trucks, and tractors specifically designed to run on ethanol and then export them?

Originally posted by shbaz
How many people here know that in America we make cars, trucks, and tractors specifically designed to run on ethanol and then export them?

The gasoline sold here in New Mexico contains approximately 10% ethanol during the winter months. I don't know about other places.

I wish this country had more bicycle paths. People think I'm crazy when I say this but the ability to ride my bicycle to work and shower and change there makes life so much better. No being stuck in gridlock, takes about the same time as driving, no stress, gives you exercise and fresh air...

Less stress
Exercise
Less gas

fits with national agenda.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by shbaz
How many people here know that in America we make cars, trucks, and tractors specifically designed to run on ethanol and then export them?

The gasoline sold here in New Mexico contains approximately 10% ethanol during the winter months. I don't know about other places.

I'm talking about 85% ethanol, 15% water, not 10% alcohol. Most engines will run on a percentage, but full on alcohol is different.

It is curious if they are using ethanol, because usually methanol is the additive to gasoline.

The only thing holding back electric cars is energy storage density and peak power and thats all.

If capacitors with an energy density and peak power of a Li-ion battery and took up the same area and was the same weight as the same spec of Li-ion battery then that would solve ALOT of problems. If that kind of capacitor was made then you could "fill up" in about 1 minute to 1hour or more depending on the efficiency of energy transfer you want. You could charge it up with what ever electricity source you could find and not run out of "gas" and be stuck.

The main capacitor, controll circuits and motor would be 500-800volts so heat becomes less of a problem. The capacitor can be compleaty drained and not be harmed.

This tread will now get stale or another one just like it will fill its place and continue LOL.

How much money does it take to make a gallon of ethanol? How many barrels of ethanol can you reliably generate PER DAY, and how much would it cost to take this process and apply it to the world market? How much would the industrial machinery cost to do so? Furthermore, how would you go about making the transition from oil to ethanol on the world market?

MK

[edit on 22-9-2004 by MKULTRA]

Good questions, there are models for ethanol production in place.
Distilleries that produce Whiskeys, and Vodkas, and other spirits.
This is lower level than what we need, but they would serve as good models.
The cost of vehicle conversion is less than other alternatives.
Especially if you are using it as "gasoline helper" to extend the supply.

There is a good article regarding prodcution here:

Using biomass