Priest Warns Obama: Better Knock the Catholic Church Out NOW

Originally posted by Annee

I have a problem with religion mixed with a business/corporation.

Why? What is wrong with a business with a religious foundation? The Catholic Church is a religious institution that just happens to have branched into businesses. It is first and foremost a religious entity.

FYI a corporation has the same rights as an natural individual. Doesn't matter what problems you have with them, they are still entitled the right to religion.

It is illegal for them to hire only Catholics. Why is it legal for them to force their belief on employees that are not Catholic.

The 2 laws don't compute.

As I said - - - someone with a weakness for religion allowed something that shouldn't be.

It isn't against Catholicism to hire non-Catholics, but it is against Catholicism to practice and condone birth control.

And for the last time they aren't forcing anyone to do anything. They are merely refusing to take part in distributing OCPs. The laws do not compute ONLY IF the Church successfully banned OCP use in the US, which is truly forcing people into their beliefs.

Originally posted by DrChuck

Why? What is wrong with a business with a religious foundation? The Catholic Church is a religious institution that just happens to have branched into businesses. It is first and foremost a religious entity.

Obviously you are a God believer and I am not.

And the Mafia became legitimate business too. Pretty lame argument.

God is a choice. God needs to stay where he is chosen.

Originally posted by Annee


Obviously you are a God believer and I am not.

This has nothing to do with my belief in a God, I consider the Catholic Church a bane to mankind since its inception. It has probably brought more deaths and misery to more men than any other entity in history. But to preserve my rights as a human in this country, the Churches rights must be equally preserved.

And the Mafia became legitimate business too. Pretty lame argument.

And the Mafia is a legitimate business too????? The only lame argument (if you can call it that), is yours.
What are you rambling about? Is the Mafia a religious institution that is trying to fight for its right to practice its religion? To make a intelligent retort you must first make sense, at least in the context of the argument.

God is a choice. God needs to stay where he is chosen.

Yes, God is a choice and it He is where He was chosen...the Church. Whether or not the Church has branches that conduct businesses doesn't make any difference, its still a religious entity. You can't force a religious institution to all of a sudden be anti-theist just because you think a business is obligated to be secular.

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by Annee


Obviously you are a God believer and I am not.

This has nothing to do with my belief in a God, I consider the Catholic Church a bane to mankind since its inception. It has probably brought more deaths and misery to more men than any other entity in history. But to preserve my rights as a human in this country, the Churches rights must be equally preserved.

Yeah Right!

Not buying it.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by Annee


Obviously you are a God believer and I am not.

This has nothing to do with my belief in a God, I consider the Catholic Church a bane to mankind since its inception. It has probably brought more deaths and misery to more men than any other entity in history. But to preserve my rights as a human in this country, the Churches rights must be equally preserved.

Yeah Right!

Not buying it.

Wow your level of obtuseness is unfathomable.

Not everyone is like you, there are unbiased people who would argue for the rights of everyone including the ones they don't like. Do you know why? Its because unlike you, I understand that other points of view no matter how opposite of mine is equally valid. I respect thoughts, opinions, and rights of other people no matter how much I hate the other person.

The only thing I don't respect and want eliminated is tyranny, such as forcing a group of people against their will to provide something they consider murder. Or prevent two consenting adults from being lawfully recognized as a married couple.

You always rant about Equal Rights, but unless its a pro-gay or anti-religion agenda you don't think it should apply.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by something wicked
Annee, why do you assume that 'Religion' = Catholic only? Do you not think other faiths whether Christian based or not have no right of opinion on contemporay issues?

I don't. Most of my posts refer to Religion/Religious - - or God believers.

This subject specifies Catholic - - which is why in some sentences I specify Catholic.

I was raised Christian - - I have the right to have an opinion on Christianity.

I do not comment about Islam (other then grouped in religion/religious) because I have no knowledge of it. Many Christians slam Islam - - do you think that is OK?

I think you are entitled to an opinion on whatever you want as long as you don't proclaim it is nothing other than an opinion based on limited knowledge/experience.

Originally posted by Monger
The Catholic church is a sick joke. I was christened Catholic, and around age 6 our parish priest came to the door to have a one-on-one chat what my father.

A little background information - my father was molested by a priest as a child. A lot of Catholic apologists will tell you that these things happen very rarely. That's simply not the case, it happens more often than anybody cares to remember. Thats why the bishops and the various popes over the years have gone to such lengths to cover the issue up.

Anyhow, this priest asked my father if he could have some (as my father put it) 'special alone time' with my brother and I to discuss Catholisicm. My father gave the priest an empathic 'No,' but the priest insisted. So my father did what anybody else who has suffered abuse at the hands of the Catholic church would have done - he gave the priest a black eye for his effort and kicked him out of the house.

We never went to a Catholic church again.

Just a couple of years ago this priest was arrested at an airport, off a return flight from Rome with a laptop full of images of naked children.

Turns out, he had been caught out molesting children in the past, the Vatican payed hush money to the families involved and simply moved the priest. I think he's currently standing trial for the child porn.

The Vatican did everything in its power to PROTECT and HIDE this child molestor.

Do you have a link to information about his arrest and proof that the Vatican paid anyone anything? Talk is very cheap when you don't back up your facts.

reply to post by something wicked


Got a problem with your fingers? Or just Lazy?

Allied Irish Bank behind pay-outs for four U.S. dioceses in 2007

If you need more than the first search result you'll have to pray for a helper monkey.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm
. . . moral standards.

I refuse to use or acknowledge the word moral. Ever since Bush took office its become the most over used and abused word in the English language.

Plus - - Christians seem to think they own it - - - and no one can have morals unless you are a Jesus believer.

Some animal societies behave ethically better then some Christians.

You do not need some invisible being outside yourself to live/believe/behave Ethically. And who's business is it to dictate "moral" to me? I'm very capable of choosing what I consider Ethical.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm quite sure that Christians aren't the only people who use the word "moral".

And nowhere did I say that acting morally dictates a need for Christianity. I know a handfull of people who lead amazingly upright lives without the desire for God. Morality is a verb, not an deistic/theistic ideology.

As for the comments about animal societies...thats quite insulting. It may be true, as I stated prior, people are people despite having a God. Insulting none-the-less. Your capability in choosing what is Ethical isn't personal. Ethics are defined as socialy acceptable actions for the benifit of the civilization right?

dictionary.reference.com...

(I still have no idea how to hot-link)

Originally posted by IronArm

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm
. . . moral standards.

I refuse to use or acknowledge the word moral. Ever since Bush took office its become the most over used and abused word in the English language.

Plus - - Christians seem to think they own it - - - and no one can have morals unless you are a Jesus believer.

Some animal societies behave ethically better then some Christians.

You do not need some invisible being outside yourself to live/believe/behave Ethically. And who's business is it to dictate "moral" to me? I'm very capable of choosing what I consider Ethical.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm quite sure that Christians aren't the only people who use the word "moral".

And nowhere did I say that acting morally dictates a need for Christianity. I know a handfull of people who lead amazingly upright lives without the desire for God. Morality is a verb, not an deistic/theistic ideology.

As for the comments about animal societies...thats quite insulting. It may be true, as I stated prior, people are people despite having a God. Insulting none-the-less. Your capability in choosing what is Ethical isn't personal. Ethics are defined as socialy acceptable actions for the benifit of the civilization right?

dictionary.reference.com...

(I still have no idea how to hot-link)

IronArm,

We're not animals, we have a soul, part of God in us.

There's a heresy that says man is completely depraved, it's not true. Man is capable of some good and has a fallen nature, a propensity to sin because of the sin of Adam.

This is why we need the help of God's "grace" to be good. Initially, a person needs God's grace given in Baptism and after, the means we receive "grace" are through prayer, reading Scripture and the most powerful means, through the grace of the Sacraments.

God sends another type of grace to help people far away, dead in mortal sin, it's called an "actual grace."

IronMan, my little advise is to pray, pray every day. Take the time, ask
God to send you the "grace" to believe. Talk to Him. He knows your heart, He will certainly help you, it is His greatest desire. The Great Tribulation is very close to beginning.

reply to post by colbe


I'm sorry...I think you have misinterpreted someone on your side here. I am not disagreeing with you at all, however, I am in contestation with Annee and her slander against the Christian Body.

The animal thing was about behavior mannerisms being barbaric, not literally like that of a souless animal.

Originally posted by IronArm
Annee and her slander against the Christian Body.

I was raised Christian - - I have the right to have any opinion I want - - since I am full knowledge of what being Christian is.

I don't slam Islam. Why? Because I don't have knowledge of it or every experienced. However - - lots of Christians on this site slam Islam all the time.

Why don't you go have a talk with them?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm
Annee and her slander against the Christian Body.

I was raised Christian - - I have the right to have any opinion I want - - since I am full knowledge of what being Christian is.

I don't slam Islam. Why? Because I don't have knowledge of it or every experienced. However - - lots of Christians on this site slam Islam all the time.

Why don't you go have a talk with them?

You seem to meandering from the point of this post. If you were born into a Taoist family they would probably not appreciate being backhanded either. There is no "right" to insult someone because you "know it". By those standards I am fully allowed to insult Asians because I am friends with a few. And by what standard do you have full knowledge? Did you study theism? It doesn't matter. You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Quebec becasue something about how you were raised or the people you knew hurt you. Assuming of course.

Originally posted by IronArm
You seem to meandering from the point of this post. If you were born into a Taoist family they would probably not appreciate being backhanded either. There is no "right" to insult someone because you "know it".

Please post exactly which backhanded comment you are referring to that I made.

In my experience Christians have a severe persecution complex - - - and get riled if you simply don't agree with them.

It took me a 60 year journey actually looking for God - - resulting in not believing in any god.

Oh - and the "poor little Christians" - - maybe they could find it in their heart to be a bit kinder to Atheists. They just have a bit of trouble understanding it goes both ways.

Originally posted by IronArm

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm
. . . moral standards.

I refuse to use or acknowledge the word moral. Ever since Bush took office its become the most over used and abused word in the English language.

Plus - - Christians seem to think they own it - - - and no one can have morals unless you are a Jesus believer.

Some animal societies behave ethically better then some Christians.

You do not need some invisible being outside yourself to live/believe/behave Ethically. And who's business is it to dictate "moral" to me? I'm very capable of choosing what I consider Ethical.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm quite sure that Christians aren't the only people who use the word "moral".

And nowhere did I say that acting morally dictates a need for Christianity.

So you are personalizing comments I made That's not my problem.

And Yes! Christians think the own the word moral. I've been in online discussions for 20 years. And Yes! Again - - Christians think they own the word moral.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IronArm
You seem to meandering from the point of this post. If you were born into a Taoist family they would probably not appreciate being backhanded either. There is no "right" to insult someone because you "know it".

Please post exactly which backhanded comment you are referring to that I made.

In my experience Christians have a severe persecution complex - - - and get riled if you simply don't agree with them.

It took me a 60 year journey actually looking for God - - resulting in not believing in any god.

Oh - and the "poor little Christians" - - maybe they could find it in their heart to be a bit kinder to Atheists. They just have a bit of trouble understanding it goes both ways.

I don't see how you have come to these ideas, but thats all part of your descision to regard Christians in poor light.

As you see us to be foolish, why are we not permited to do so in kind? Venom against our ideologies comes abundant, whether from you or other Athiests. Do unto others mayhaps? I'm sure Athiests have some saying that has to be similar.

As for giving an exact quotable insult, they are many and subtle, however it is obvious in the the tone and mannerisms in which you address others as well as myself that your contempt is static.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by seabag

 

I think that there should be a public option for healthcare (which would include contraception) for all in America and it could be afforded for a fraction of the cost of the wars/over sea presence.
So we end those and we can have it and it wont hurt anyone.

A public option would give people that can't afford insurance healthcare, but it would also allow people that can afford it to see whatever care they want and let them buy the best if they are afraid public healthcare = inferior healthcare.

Everyone would win. We should be taking care of people here at home. I pay taxes, but I can't afford health insurance, there are millions like me and we deserve it.

Also.. I would love to know what contraception and "the pill" have to do with abortion?

edit on 11-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

No you don't deserve a thing. You only know that you want and need something and are willing to take it from some one else. Your a thief plain and simple.

If you want to make healthcare affordable:
1) kick out the illegals and their anchor children.
2) Allow the interstate commerce of health insurance.
3) Get social security out of the federal governments hands via the creation of an interstate compact.
4) Divide Social security in half, a public retirement insurance, and a public disability insurance Agencies.
5)Reform tort limits
6) subsidize the cost of medical and dental equipment.
7) Subsidize the educational cost of Doctors, Surgeons, Dentists, Nurses, and CNA's.


With 7 simple steps health insurance could be affordable for you. But shucks, why work to make the system affordable when you can just steal from someone else.

Originally posted by OhZone
"Worldwide overpopulation is the greatest risk to public health that we have ever encountered. The single obstacle to solving this problem is not money or the lack of acceptable family planning choices, but the opposition by a small group of extreme reactionaries now in control of the Roman Catholic Church. Uncounted numbers of people are denied access to contraception and abortion by the political machinations of a pope who is, by the dogma of his religion, unable to change his mind."

www.population-security.org...

"The National Catholic Reporter, a major national Catholic weekly newspaper, published a most revealing report in its December 29, 1989 issue. Doug Wead, special assistant to President Bush, was interviewed and quoted as saying: "He [President Bush] has been more sensitive and more accessible to the needs of the Catholic Church than any president I know of in American history." Wead indicated he felt that Bush's relationship with the American Catholic leadership was much closer than Reagan's had been: "We want the Church to feel loved and wanted, and we want them to have input." This relationship was maintained through five U.S. cardinals: Bernard Law, Joseph Bernardin, Edmund Szoka, John O'Connor, and James Hickey."

www.population-security.org...

This whole page discusses the Influence of the Vatican on US politics.
As is this one:

Why is the Vatican a threat to Americans?
www.population-security.org...

"Overpopulation" is false, it's an excuse so you can enjoy sex without consequences. The creator of sex made if for marriage and procreation because He said "be fruitful and multiply."

Children are a blessing. This will always be a fact. One soul...a person
is more valuable to God than all created things.

The world is a big place. Everyone on the earth can fit in the state
of Texas.

And your sources, let me laugh. The National Catholic Reporter
is a liberal anti-Catholic rag. Most of those men you quoted, Bernardin
in particular, had no love of the faith. The old objection, the Church
is trying to control, how is that true? You don't believe.