US soldier kills Afghan civilians in Kandahar

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Killing is not the problem... Religion is the problem, specifically killing in its name.

Killing in the name of religion is despicable but killing in the name of corporate/nationalistic interests is equally as despicable.

Get of your soap box.

So we both see the same picture, and yet for some reason your still going to act like an ass towards me. Or are you arguing that killing in the name of religion is acceptable?

Typical...

edit on 12-3-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I was afraid that you would try this trickery...

My post clearly stated that they were both equally as despicable for the killings, no matter what their reasoning was in the same sentence, so I'm not favoring one over the other.

Heck man, you even quoted it.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I was just replying to setting up 100s of camps around the world/occupying other countries/conflicts with the countries citizens instead of having the army where it should(back in US). Majority of the people are supporting it because of the false threat the governments is giving its people.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Yup - which goes back to my response to your post.

What was the point in your post and final comment towards me about getting of my soap box? If we are saying the same thing there was no reason to respond to my post in the manner you did.

.....moving forward so we dont derail...

Originally posted by Xcathdra

All topics that are conveniently left to the wayside because it doesn't support the US is behind all the evil in the world argument you guys like to put out.

No,,,,, THe US is behind all the worlds Evil, and you and others conveniently brought topics into this thread, into this debate to distract us from the FACT that a US solider murdered innocent children and civilians.
So i dont care if you conveniently try to change the arguement in this thread with your 9/11 crap, the FACT remains that a US solider murdered innocent people, and no matter what you say there is no excuse for that.

Originally posted by WozaMeathed

Originally posted by Xcathdra

All topics that are conveniently left to the wayside because it doesn't support the US is behind all the evil in the world argument you guys like to put out.

No,,,,, all topics are conveniently brought into this thread by you and others into this debate to distract us from the FACT that a US solider murdered innocent children and civilians.
So i dont care if you conveniently try to change the arguement in this thread with your 9/11 crap, the FACT remains that a US solider murdered innocent people, and no matter what you say there is no excuse for that.

I see you dont care for any topic that doesn't result in the blame being directed solely at the US. When you decide all life is of equal value, then feel free to give us your moral lecture. Until then, simply ignoring all acts by any country / group other than the US does not mean they don't occur.

As far as there being no excuse.. I agree 100%. Conviently though your rant above is, again, only directed at the US. Absolutely no mention of Afghan / Taliban murdering people not involved, which includes their won countrymen as well as Us soldiers not involved.

Why no moral disdain towards them for that action?

There is no excuse for a person to indiscriminately kill, whether the person is a US Soldier, an Afghan Soldier, or an Islamic Imam.

So until you apply the same standard evenly, dont lecture me on morals.

reply to post by torsion


"In a statement released by the White House, Obama said the attack was "tragic and shocking"

Well Mr President why dont you pull our tropps out of there like you said you would on becoming our leader.

"This is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven," Mr Karzai said in a statement. He said he has repeatedly demanded the US stop killing Afghan civilians.

Well Mr puppet put in place, why do you demand we leave your fd up country and we will not kill any more of your civillians.


Ron Paul could stop all of this BS. But lets get back to talking about killing fetuses. Dont worry about these already living and breathing humans outside of the womb!!

reply to post by WozaMeathed


Makes a change from the UK being blamed for being behind all the evils in the World.

You cannot just blame the US anyways for all the evils in this world.

There are countries far more worse than the US.

And I know you are not going to agree. But you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

reply to post by Laserjock


Greetings ATS Readers and Laserjock,

WOW, long thread, no doubt very viral by now.. no surprise this thread is 15 pages and growing as I write this.

Laserjet, I didnt particularly reply to your post... just chose one that struck home and decided to throw in here.

Yeah, I also grew up in a military family, and also believe in a strong DEFENSE, not offense...

And I along with you; believe we need to get our folks out of this region. I think we are about as bogged down as the Russians were when they tried to rule the place.

I am also very concerned that those numerous Libyan surface to air missiles that went missing will soon be showing up on the battlefield and used on the troops in choppers. Or against planes of tourists flying by somewhere.. God forbid.. but it is a fact these darn missile platforms went missing from Libya..

The folks are pissed we are there, as WE would be if there were a bunch of Afghanistan troops occupying my town or region... and tragedies like this.. are political bonfires.

Throughout the middle east the "west" has meddled in, and helped governments to fall, in the name of democracy supposedly.

Several of these places, once they finally get around to a vote, they ELECT HARDLINE ISLAMISTS for the government.. or more hardline.. I am thinking Egypt here for the primest example. Orrrr, they wind up with something much worse than they had before the overthrow... Thinking Libya for best example on this thought line..

The results of the unrest, tell me, that when GIVEN A CHOICE, and hopefully a proper and fair vote, these folks in many places CHOOSE to be run by a more religeous, or hardline system...

So WHY in the holy heck are WE trying to change their way of life, and perhaps preferred way of life?? For them anyhow? Sigh.. just seem so self defeating... for a type of idealism..

Karzhai is showing to be one very corrupt type person...DUH...like this was a surprise..lol

The Afghan Air Force is being investigated for transporting and dealing drugs...

The Taliban are back all over in the region they were chased out of in the early years of this forever war stuff.

We are now seriously trying to have talks with the Taliban now... peace talks and deals of some sort.

Yep, it is one serious cesspool of a mess.. corruption on many levels and on all sides of the fence.

Apparently, as of the posting the soldier, prime suspect has evidently turned himself in, and is being held in custody, they are investigasting if it was a single soldier or more were involved.

The Taliban are claiming many many more were killed and/or wounded... most contend this is propaganda talk... but...??

Troops in the region spend a vast majority of their time on the frontline, or high stress conditions.. in WW2, the troops spent about 10% or less of front line duty than they do nowdays..

Suicides have skyrocketed in the troops.. and there is a problem with sexual assaults becoming too common as well. Things are kinda breaking down I think..

Its obviously a money making deal, and keeping it going is the game I think..for the elite few.

In WW2 we fought against 3 nations, 2 of which had a serious army and airforces, and at least the Japanese had a serious Navy.. and it was over in less than 4 yrs for the USA... and 6 or little less than 7 years for most other nations...hmmm

Sigh... it all just gets more messed up each day... I am NOT surprised it has turned into such a cesspool of horror and crimes and wrongs.. sigh... I told everyone this was how it would turn out.. a TOTAL MESS... As I am sure many many folks here at ATS also saw coming.

Votes dont seem to make much difference anymore... the Constitution is getting tossed out for "international mandates"... to go to war... write your Congressman, never get a reply... it is all coming apart at the seams like a rotten garment, a coat of MANY FADED COLORS... and troops are getting killed by supposed PARTNERS in defense over a religeous issue... yep time to get them out of there and let these people in those regions LIVE THE LIFE THEY choose.

Not one that is imposed upon them..is that not what we want in the west? Hmmm..

Anyhow, I agree with your post, and also sympathize the feelings..

Pravdaseeker

I want to put this out there as I get the impression people are not familiar. The President has to be cautious on what exactly he states on these types of incidents.

The term is called - Unlawul Command Influence

UCMJ Article 37 - Unlawfully influencing action of court
JAG Corp - In Depth review of Unlawful Command Influence

Obama can actually undermine justice by speaking out aggressively on punishment for actions. He is in the Chain of Command as Commander in Chief and does not have to clear his comments with Pentagon Public Affairs before addressing the press.

just info for background.

Click here for more information.

Ok a few FACTS just to help a few of you

Security

Dec 2009 ana= 105000 (afghan army)
Aug 2011 ana= 171000
Same dates but police
86000 and then 130000
(plan to total 305000 by end 2011)
Ana has grown by 50% since nov 09
19 women graduated afghan mil college in may 2011
Police - 133 women patrolmen 4 nco's 8 officers 

First 6 months of 2011 civil deaths up to 1462 ( in that period ) 
80% to age's ( anti gov agencies )

Civil casualties by age up 28%
By isaf down 9%

Economy 

GDP of afghan 2011 up 8% 
2012 8.5 predicted

Elections 

Sept 10 elections 
2,500 candidates
249 seats 
400 women candidates( up from 328)
5.6 million votes cast (1.3 mil discounted )
Voter turn out was 35% ( 2006 US congressional was  37% ! )
39% were female

92% of 5987 stations were open
30% of seats held by women (69 seats out of 249 in lower house and 23 out of 102 in upper house )

3000 voters in nad Ali compared to 300 in 2009

Counter narcotics 
2009- 2010 48% drop in opium production
However due to prices 
438 mil usd in 2009
604 mil usd in 2010
Global rankings in opium production down from 66% to 63%
( 92% 2007 88% 2009 )

3787 hectares destroyed  by mid may 2011

April 10- march 11 
358% increase in heroine seizures
Arrested 157
77 were insurgents 

Education

Less than 1 mil in school in 2001 
Now 7.3 mil 38% female
9000 new schools totalling 12,500
Over 200000 new teachers
A seven fold demand for education
2001 - 4 teacher colleges
Now 38 and 78 district centres

 Health 
80% now live past age 5
2200 midwives
85% live near Baisicly health care 
Afghan has climbed up the human development index 
2009 ranked 181 out of 182 
2010 - 155 out of 169
Since fall of Taliban GDP tripled 

Other

Ontop of schools and work 

10000 attended a rock concert
75 tv channels 
175 radio stations 
( none under the Taliban )
Generally 59% say country is moving in right direction ( how many Americans can say that !)

Isaf enjoys 83% approval rating 
Taliban under 10%

54% feel they can influence their gov

64% say they are happy with their mp

74% believe elections have improved the country

62% say they are more prosperous than 5 years ago 

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by WozaMeathed

Originally posted by Xcathdra

All topics that are conveniently left to the wayside because it doesn't support the US is behind all the evil in the world argument you guys like to put out.

No,,,,, all topics are conveniently brought into this thread by you and others into this debate to distract us from the FACT that a US solider murdered innocent children and civilians.
So i dont care if you conveniently try to change the arguement in this thread with your 9/11 crap, the FACT remains that a US solider murdered innocent people, and no matter what you say there is no excuse for that.

I see you dont care for any topic that doesn't result in the blame being directed solely at the US. When you decide all life is of equal value, then feel free to give us your moral lecture. Until then, simply ignoring all acts by any country / group other than the US does not mean they don't occur.

Re-read my post, as i do value all life as equal.
Your the one lecturing how two wrongs make a right. And we all know how that aint right.
So no matter what you say about other countries being evil, that Fact remains that the US has killed more people in it fight against terrorism than any other country has killed or terrorist will kill.
And the fact is this isnt the first murderous act committed by a US solider in these so called war of terror,,,,oops i meant war on terror.
And no matter what any other country has done, the FACT remains that the US soliders have and will continue to murder innocent children and civilians as long as people like you defend their actions.

As far as there being no excuse.. I agree 100%. Conviently though your rant above is, again, only directed at the US.

This should be directed at the US and its soliders as its the US and its soliders murdering children and civilians.
And No,,,, your the one ranting and trying to deflect the fact that it was a US solider that killed innocent Children.

Absolutely no mention of Afghan / Taliban murdering people not involved, which includes their won countrymen as well as Us soldiers not involved.

When were talking about the taliban then i will talk about them, But this thread is about a US solider killing children, so can you try to stay on topic.

Why no moral disdain towards them for that action?

Once again, i will discuss there actions when i post on a thread about them. ( And yes they disgust me too)

There is no excuse for a person to indiscriminately kill, whether the person is a US Soldier, an Afghan Soldier, or an Islamic Imam.

I agree with you 100%, but we are talking about a US solider this time.

So until you apply the same standard evenly, dont lecture me on morals.

Im not lecturing you on your morals , im just lecturing you on your biased point of view.
And there is the difference

Just some REAL FACTS AND FIGURES

reply to post by torsion


Just a theory here, apologies if it's been brought up before but I'm at work and can't spend the time it takes to read 19 pages worth of replies just now!! (sorry!)

The first thing I thought when reading the report on this was that it was staged, just seems a little random, along with conflicting reports of whether it was one man or a group and also comeing in quick succession after the whole Koran burning incident.

No name has been released of the person(s) responsible, and it seems (to me at least) that it might be one of a series of staged events to give the US an easy excuse to pull out and concentrate on either Iran or Syria (or both).

If they pull out and leave the country to implode in it's own civil/tribal/religious fight, it kind of looks bad, but if you rile up the Afghans enough you can say... "hey look, they hate us, they don't want us here, we'd best just leave"
public opinion on your side because they're tired of retaliation attacks/killings/more young soldiers being shot or blown up because of these incidents

It's just a theory, again, I don't have time to do to much testing of it since I'm at work at the moment but I just wanted to get others thoughts.

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by WozaMeathed

 

For starters its pathetic that all those that condone this murderous act by this US solider have starred you for your post.

You cannot just blame the US anyways for all the evils in this world.

Why not? They are the ones starting these war of terror.
Name any other country that has invaded so many countries in the last decade or two and keeps bombing innocent people and calling there deaths collateral damage?
I'll answer that for you,,,,,, America thats who.

There are countries far more worse than the US.

Name them then.
Other than Israel i cant think of any other country that sends bombs into countries killing innocent people.
But i bet you condone their acts of terror too.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I wonder how many of these psychos will be going berserk once they head back home.
What goes around comes around.

Not everyone copes well with numerous tours of combat, who is to blame for that, the soldier or the ones sending them there? Maybe a bit of both, i don't know.

I would like to think that this will make TPTB reassess how much they subject a soldier too, but i think we know they aren't fussed in the slightest.

I have spoken to a combat stress councillor first hand who said that the UK have councilled troops with PTSD in the battlefied. Not away from the triggers, bang in the middle of them! Not the best way of doing things.

I've seen the nicest person flip when they've seen enough, not a psycho at all. This can, and has happened to civillians and soldiers alike, so whilst i agree that this is a tragic incident and loss of innocent life, some people need to just hope and that it never happens to them.
,
So easy to judge from an armchair. Thats not a direct remark at you skOrpiOn, just a reminder to everyone of other elements of the picture.

CX.

The heart of a human being has been replaced with the heart of the beast. - SMNH

reply to post by WozaMeathed


Have I stated in my comments that I thought the killings were right?

If I have then show proof. If you cannot show proof then do not go around making accusations which you cannot back up.

As for other countries as bad as the US. You just have to look back on history to see that there were countries worse than the USA. If you cannot even see that then you are the whom is pathetic.

There are other countries who cause wars in the this world, it is not just the US.

This was staged for an excuse to withdraw troops! C'mon They've done far worse and it has never been reported and now all of a sudden from MSM? Prepare for the next deployment , IRAN , coming soon.

reply to post by AnonymousFem


Guinness world record for the biggest aggressor on the planet:

The US army flag has 183 campaign ribbons on it. Those 183 ribbons each represent wars. When you compare that to the 236 years the US has actually been around as a country, you're talking about a war on average of once every year and three months.

This particular nation has used some of the most deadliest weapons on human population ever created for example: Nukes, Napalm, cluster bombs and uranium ammunition.Plus a mad bunch of bastardized mentally unstable troops.