This is how humanity will end...potentially.

reply to post by SaturnFX

According to this graph, which we seem perfectly on schedule for..our home computer worth a thousand bucks should have the same processing power as a single human brain. by the 2045 timeframe, your home computer in the 1k range should have the brainpower (calc per sec) of the entire human race at your personal fingertips.

every single step of the way since the beginning of the chart, people assumed they reached the limit...regular people, not in the trenches scientists. scientists discuss all sorts of new ways to proceed once the atomic limit of silicon is reached, from dna, crystal silicon, neural net, atomic spin, quantum, etc...more than even I know offhand, and each route promises insanely advanced computing power to what we have today (but chances are, capitalism won't do any mega leaps...why release the uber computer when you can sell 10 steps to the uber and make 10 times the money).

But consider 2045 on this chart...your PC has the brain power of the collective human race...and your also connected online to a couple billion other computers, each also having their own world of brainpower...or to put it in a different perspective...imagine an entire galaxy, filled with intelligent life, all working together perfectly to accomplish a single goal... There is no limit to our progression, and I feel, based on the logic used by kurzweil and others, we are on the cusp of a major alteration of our species

All nice and dandy, but ask yourself this, progression for what? Sure you can make one giant interstellar conglomerate, but what would be the purpose? And at a certain place in the chain it would not be our progression no more, it will be there progression.

A single goal is not characterized as the singular goal.

If you asked most people you meet what do they think of the past generation and how did they see the future for there world and offspring's. You will find that most are surprised that they did not foresee a majority, if not all that would come to be. For the future does have a habit of surprising..After all at a certain place in the chain, there progression became not of there understanding, even if it was of there making.

But yes lets ramp up our processors and quantumfie them, get them all over the galaxy's, then we can post lol cat pictures to ourselves from all over the place, I want to post some cat pictures to somebody's in the Andromeda galaxy and beyond.

But I think were getting ahead of yourself here a little, first lets figure out how to sustain a city in harmony with nature, without all those hazardous consequences that come along, before we begin having wet dreams of outer worldly existences. As of yet we cant even do that, have to learn to walk before you learn to run and jump over cliffs.

www.sarifindustries.com...#/video/

reply to post by SyphonX

I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, not out of the blue, but from seeing very strange behavior online and elsewhere. Sometimes it's frightening, other times I wonder if half the stuff I read or 'see' is even something an actual "person" wrote or made. It's not even easy to describe without appearing contrived or insane, but I will say that you "know it when you see it" and I wager some of you have. It goes beyond the realm of, "That was a strange coincidence." and plummets into the "What is going on, is this real life?" realm. There are strange goings-on within the interwebs and abroad, take heed and beware.

Well yes dude, all your base are belong to us.

Resistance is futile.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Now, for the meat of this thread..its a old idea, but an idea that is becoming more and more prevalant in our culture..when do robots get rights?

Well given the fact that humans are being stripped of basic human rights at a escalating rate by other humans then i have to say unlikely. The irony is much of humanity has been brainwashed in to unthinking property becoming Robots themselves.... good workers. So any form of AI has no chance imho.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by SyphonX

 

Ever wonder if a single neuron in your brain thinks itself to be a self aware individual?

We are the sum of all of our parts.
We are the sum of all of our experiences.
We are the sum of all of our choices.
We are the sum of all of our actions.

Ever wonder what a single neuron is the sum of?

There are different types of neurons so for any given neuron Its individual purpose is its singularity. Just as a singular person and all there idiosyncrasies gives them purpose, and defines there singularity. But in all, there all apart of a web, a matrix, or whatever name you want to use to describe the sum of it all.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Here's how I see it. We, human, are not more alive than this robot, or even a rock for that matter. We are organic robots. I think that if you create a robot and give it that 5 senses that we have and the ability to simultaneously process those senses as we do, it will essentially be considered "alive". There's no such thing as a "souls" (that's my own belief) and that makes us as alive as that robot. So, if the robot in the video "thinks" it's a live, that will mean that we, too, think we're alive. So, regardless of your definition of "alive", we're as alive or dead as those robots.

That being said, there's also the question of ethics. Should I feel guilty for killing a robot? The REASON why this question exists is that we are the ones who created those robots. So, for us, they're inferior in value, because we are their creators, they are inferior. Even though they perform all sorts of tasks better than us and they surpass us in every aspect imaginable that there's nothing left for us to be better in, even then, we would still think of them as inferior, again, because we created them, we came first, so we saved our place. That inferiority is what rises the question: is it okay to kill them? Kind of the same feeling you get when you ask if we should kill cows and eat them. If they (the robots) were equal to us in value, or even higher, the question of killing them would be insane. It wouldn't exist and it would be as ridiculous as asking whether you can kill a human being.

But, the fact of the matter is: we are not superior than robots. They are. If coming to life first makes you of higher value, then by that rationale, our parents, our birth givers and creators, deserve life more than we do. But, somehow, that DOES NOT seem to be the case. Parents try make their children better than them. They somehow feel they deserve life more than them. It's the same with robots... all our dreams and everything we wanna see manifest before our eyes, we pour it all into one dream and make it happen. This is how we designed the robots. So, if anything, they deserve life more than us (if deserving is earned by who's more capable and/or more recent). So, knowing that they FEEL as alive as we do, and that they WANT to live as much as we do, coupled with the fact that they're equal if not superior than us in terms of capabilities, then, definitely, it is not ethical for us to kill them. It's only ethical if you find that killing humans is ALSO ethical.

Now, comes a very important question: can a species create a superior species? is it even a philosophically sound idea? And how is that possible? Well, it sounds possible. We did create machines that are superior to us in 'many' tasks. But, can we create machines that will be superior to us in 'all' tasks? Is that possible? I believe it is... and we will lose our edge as soon as we hit the "ON" button on the robot that we created. That makes me think that WE might have been created by a 'less complicated' or inferior species and that we might have rebelled and doomed to this planet as a result because whoever created us, made what was equivalent to a kill button or something that will control us for the rest of our lives. Many people think that we might have been created by superior alien races. Well, why not consider the possibility that they were less advanced and complicated than we are, but they can only control us because of that button that they keep pressing that keeps us tamed?

Many interesting ideas here.

Wow... amazing. I have a framework thought out and written down for a story involving the concept of "Living AI", and this is very inspiring to say the least.

The problem with this for me is, God created humans and gave them souls and spirit. The Spirit gives life, and inspiration. If we create something, can we give it life? No program can match what we have "in" us, the soul and spirit.

reply to post by SaturnFX



Here are a couple videos I found dealing with the future of robotics and they already have some quite realistic robots. There is some discussion of sort of a human rights protections and human treatment of robots which I find kind of ironic since we take no such care or protection with other living things and I have decided value for life even synthetic life comes down to cost. Animals are free so we are free to mistreat them - robots are expensive so we will protect the investment with rights. No offense intended to anyone but we sort of deserve to "end."



And then there's this guy, Jules who gives a whole new meaning to the expression "talking heads."

Originally posted by mark1167
reply to post by beezzer

 

If aging and ding are no longer an issue, what kind of culture would that create?

If we never died what would happen? how would our way of thinking change? If we were religious and we new we never died , then we would never have to face judgement for our actions.Would morality even have any purpose ?
Is death the only reason we have morality hard wired into our brains? Would people start to do things they would have never done before? Would we be able to pursue dreams that we could never complete in this lifetime? Would it be complete chaos? What would you do when you first realized your life wasn't over and you had limitless time to do what ever you wanted? How would laws change to deal with this issue? What about over population do to the fact no one would ever die?
It seems with this subject questions seem to only bring more and more complex questions. The implications are staggering when you actually think about it, and this is why personally I feel we are rushing to fast down a path we know nothing about and when we get to the end we may not like what we find.

Thats a fear borne out of belief in god and an afterlife. You don't have to fear damnation, or desire heaven in order to behave correctly. Its all how you are taught when you are young (assuming you don't have some mental problem e.g. psychopathy).

I actually see this as a boon for us.

Age brings wisdom generally and a world where that human wisdom isn't lost to infirmity and death can't be anything but good. Imagine the tangible benefits of having scientists, engineers walking around with hundreds of years experience.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by SyphonX

 

I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, not out of the blue, but from seeing very strange behavior online and elsewhere. Sometimes it's frightening, other times I wonder if half the stuff I read or 'see' is even something an actual "person" wrote or made. It's not even easy to describe without appearing contrived or insane, but I will say that you "know it when you see it" and I wager some of you have. It goes beyond the realm of, "That was a strange coincidence." and plummets into the "What is going on, is this real life?" realm. There are strange goings-on within the interwebs and abroad, take heed and beware.

Well yes dude, all your base are belong to us.

Resistance is futile.

Well, the usage of memes to make fun of anything that is contrary to the norm, is one of the biggest indicators someone is integrated....

... just saying.

Originally posted by libertytoall
www.sarifindustries.com...#/video/

That is Deus Ex, right? (great game)

always did think the concept was stupid though...you got this great movement towards hybrid tech, and some fringe terrorist groups trying to stop it because...it goes against gods will or some such nonsense. I, at no point in playing the game, seen the resistance as anything outside of what they simply were...religious zealots trying to stop progression...and no matter how much the narration tried to confuse the line, it was pretty clear cut.

I will murder many people strictly for purposes of my personal ideological viewpoint of how augmentation is bad.

Sometimes I wonder if game designers are trolling us.

One of the only non-religious points of the game is..the implants were giving information to be collected and given to corporations and governments...therefore all this must stop.

Yes, lets also shut down the internet, because cookies and adware exists...bleh.
I can accept the odd tailor made ad if it means I get to become a freaking superhuman.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
All nice and dandy, but ask yourself this, progression for what?

interesting question btw.
What is your answer?

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
i dont understand why you would give a robot thats stronger than you, with a higher level of computation, emotions?

or the ability to question and free will, that will just end very badly.

dumb idea.

Funny thing to say, now apply that to us humans.

Food for thought.

reply to post by SaturnFX


People on here getting freaked out by a PS3 demo, yes made for the PS3 runs realtime not a pre-renered movie stored as a file, all the graphics generated realtime what next

reply to post by SyphonX

Well, the usage of memes to make fun of anything that is contrary to the norm, is one of the biggest indicators someone is integrated....

...just saying.

Oh! You don't say. But don't you know, the usage of memes is also a way of integrating something into the thing you call...The Norm.

...just saying.... Hmm you know I think I smells a conspiracy.

Nah, I't could also be that were all just crazy and been watching to many robot movies, shows, anime, and cartoons.

Whats even stranger though, if you think about it. Is that the thing you define as the norm, well its definition always seems to be in a constant transition of change....So how can it be called "the norm" if its always in transition?

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
progression for what?

interesting question btw.
What is your answer?

Um. Don't know, I never really thought about it. Besides you cant answer a question with another question. That's cheating.

But I think we have not thought out this whole thing all that much.

First that vid you posted, there is a small fact of how would a robot, a construct with no prior entanglement into this matrix of life. ie, its got no evolutionary reception, you can say no data/dna of all the previous recombinations that came before it. Well how will it all of a sudden act very human like, and emote like, even to grasp the concept of death is a very biological evolutionary trigger mechanism.

One of its primary functions is to preserve its genomes and particular combinations throughout time. You can say that the you before this you biologically is just something that is an amalgamation of untold number of things and experiences that got written down in your physical makeup. In fact it got stamped down and it got stamped down hard by life throughout generations and by trial and error from what you are now, all the way back down the chain to possibly even the primordial oze.

So one way or another it's written into the very fiber of your being, and most assuredly written somewhere in some form into your physical body, we can call that fiber DNA or we can call it something else, whatever we call it, it will still have the same function. Copy and paste, recombine and reconstruct into different variations as dictated by outside influences/nature.

But a robot would not have that long chain stretching back for eons, the genome of experiences, the evolution, the trials and errors would not be there. So if it has never really lived trough generations and generation of everything life and planet earth throws at you...Well how can it all of a sudden start acting like a human, even fearing the thing it has no real concrete concept of, except for the short time its type has been integrated into the mainframe of the sum of its existence. Which really is probably only a few moments.

At best it can only have a few hundred years of whatever data was installed into its makeup. And if its hooked into a greater mainframe made up of a bunch of individual mainframes, it will still only have the total sum of that data. Which in all the majority would be something that was installed, or programmed in there by its creators..Humans, so it's fear would not really be its own, but something that was given to it.

But I suppose it can happen, by some sort of integration of consciousnesses and a long periods of time were it has had time to integrate into this matrix of life so the things it and its types has accumulated into its data banks, will eventually amass into something mimicking of half human beings and our ways, and half robot programmings and there data...A central net would be required to store all that process through time, as it recombines, and restructures all that it is. Because as we know as of yet the machines that are around today, even the one in your vid, well it will have no way storing all of its data and moving it down trough out time like humans do and is written in every single ones DNA. But it can download it in some form or another, ie it can link into the hive mind.

Basically every time it is build and rebuilt. Each and every time of its existence, It is by definition the very first time, no matter what was installed there or programmed in, it was programmed in by something other then itself and its experiences its trials and errors. Basically its evolution is not its own, ie a construct...And what was programmed in it was put there by its programmers, since it has no way of caring on data from all of its previous incarnations that its evolution went through. I mean somewhere down the line there still is the information even if fragmented from the time we were just half apes/cavemen and probably in some form even before that. You know I have even heard that while in fetus development we sort of have the beginnings or semblance of gills, and even a tail, before we form into the form we know as human. But that could just be a coincidence or faulty information.

Basically its a broken chain since it cant carry on information and data throughout the ages, or more precisely its a chain that does not link in a straight line, and one form has no clear link of the other.

But you would be surprised what can happen. There are probably ways that a machine all of a sudden can start acting like the one in your vid, I suppose it depends on how sophisticated and advanced it is, and there are probably other ways of keeping and transferring data throughout time and different ages, then the way us humans do it with our DNA.

Which leads us back to....Progression for what?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Couple things.
First, you make a big fuss about time. But, time is relative to the individual. A human gains wisdom with time and knowledge. A robot in this case, if it is properly articulating creative and independent thinking will do the same.

But keep in mind, the mind of a robot may be on the order of billions of times faster than humans, aka, imagine having all the knowledge of the world at your fingertips, and a hundred billion years to digest it.

From an outside perspective, the change in a robot from parts and programs to sentience may seem like a split second, but from the robots perspective, with its high processing, it ran through a million different senarios/lifetimes and generations of thinking within that flash.

Our evolution has been a very slow and accidental move towards where we are at now. Imagine a direct and purposeful alteration and what could be accomplished.

And...to answer the question, in my opinion anyhow, is..we do these things (progress more and more) because when we do, we are evolving ourselves..this has been going on since the beginning of time, and it seems to be leading somewhere..organization within the initial chaos perhaps.

Check this out..it may open your mind to a very interesting observation.
Where is it all going
gets a bit mathy, but well worth the read.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Couple things.
First, you make a big fuss about time. But, time is relative to the individual. A human gains wisdom with time and knowledge. A robot in this case, if it is properly articulating creative and independent thinking will do the same.

Actually i don't like that word "time" I think its used to describe something that is multiform, multilevel, and moltifold. I just use it because people here seem to like it and I would probably be understood better if used. But yes both a human and a robot would gain wisdom with time they just do it on two different wavelengths. If really advanced it will accumulate and biggest in minutes what took a regular human a lifetime to accumulate and biggest...As you can see they would not be on the same time scale. Our watches would be off when compared to each other.

But keep in mind, the mind of a robot may be on the order of billions of times faster than humans, aka, imagine having all the knowledge of the world at your fingertips, and a hundred billion years to digest it.

Ya like I said probably on this site more then a couple of times, in this place we call the universe. Many have come and many have gone. All the knowledge in the world is pretty much useless, because the world is something to be experienced, when you sit around and digest what you have experienced, that is called old age and its time for you to move on. And so they have moved on.

In the end it will lead back to...Progression for what?

From an outside perspective, the change in a robot from parts and programs to sentience may seem like a split second, but from the robots perspective, with its high processing, it ran through a million different senarios/lifetimes and generations of thinking within that flash.

So do humans each and every day, even when we sleep. It just all goes unnoticed from an outside perspective, machines might be fast enough to not deceive and not confuse themselves. But they are not fast enough to deceive and confuse themselves. Hence they do not subscribe to the law of confusion, the law of free will.

Our evolution has been a very slow and accidental move towards where we are at now. Imagine a direct and purposeful alteration and what could be accomplished.

Progression for what?

And...to answer the question, in my opinion anyhow, is..we do these things (progress more and more) because when we do, we are evolving ourselves..this has been going on since the beginning of time, and it seems to be leading somewhere..organization within the initial chaos perhaps.

Everything leads somewhere, even nowhere is somewhere that you can not process and understand there for its nowhere. Everything is order of a different order, chaos is of such a thing. It's nowhere one would be able to process and understand. Evolution is understanding chaos, and in doing so it brings order out of chaos. The whole history of human kind has been bringing order out of chaos. Nice and neat, very orderly, all lined up in a straight line so that they will be able to walk down that road and even cross it.

Do people still have hopes of traveling the void in tin cans with mutated human types like they do in the shows on the tube. It's funny how the things we think will be, will be not quite like it will be...And as such, progression for what?

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
Progression for what?

You asked that

Then you said...

Evolution is understanding chaos, and in doing so it brings order out of chaos

I knew you could answer your own question


Yes, past earth life, past our biological drives, there is a even more subtle drive going on since the big bang
order from chaos.

Chaos slows down as order speeds up
order has been speeding up for billions of years, and has been, since the dawning of time, doubling at half the time.
just from a mankind perspective. human stone age was about 5000 years, bronze age was about 3k years, iron age was about 1500 years, middle ages, classical, Renaissance, industrial, computer, digital, etc..each age roundabout is halving itself in time and new ages bring in technological marvels fueling the next progression

Timewave zero (you may have heard in passing) or the singularity is when the pulsing of time/age/era's meets zero, This perfectly aligns with computational maps (moores law) of when a computer basically has the same computational power as a human brain. Transhumanists call this moment the singularity..when the creation becomes more powerful than the creator and a new..well, evolution or species occurs.

On a singular perspective, we do this out of many obscure philosophical grounds..covered in here, but if you take the whole history of time in our universe into account, we do this because it is the natural flow...order from chaos...and when you look at the broad picture, we are acting as simply a force of nature more than some sort of individual thinking creature.

Very kurzweilian

The created will always turn on their creator. It may not happen immediately, but it will happen.