Debunked: Sign of the Prophet Jonas

KJV
Matthew 12:38-40

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

But he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

According to the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus said he would be in the heart of the earth for 3 Days and 3 Nights.
However,
• Day:0 - Night:1 Jesus' crucifixion on 'Good Friday'. Placed in tomb at night.
• Day:1 - Night:1 Sabbath / Saturday
• Day:0 - Night:0 Sunday. Tomb was found empty.

This makes a grand total of 1 Day and 2 Nights.

The Catholic church purports that Jesus died on good friday, not scripture. Passover and sabbath were about to begin so He had to be laid to rest before that. so, technically thurs- sun

reply to post by micmerci


According to the Gospel of John, Jesus died on the eve of the Sabbabth. So this means Jesus died and was buried on Friday night.

KJV
John 19:30-42

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.

 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.

 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.

reply to post by Sahabi

Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday. The eve of the sabbath is Thursday evening

reply to post by micmerci


Also, the Jewish day was from 6pm until 6pm the next day. So our thursday 6pm, was the start of friday to them.

So part of monday was still sunday to the ancient Jews.

Genesis 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Edit: This was supposed to be to the OP. Not you mic. Got a little click-happy there.

reply to post by Sahabi

This makes a grand total of 1 Day and 2 Nights.

No, it says "Sabbaths" (plural). Christ was executed on a Thursday, Friday was passover, Saturday was Sabbath. Passover was an appointed sabbath, and Saturday the regular sabbath./ It was the equivalent of a two-day holiday weekend for them.

reply to post by Sahabi

According to the Gospel of John, Jesus died on the eve of the Sabbabth. So this means Jesus died and was buried on Friday night.

Not necessarily, Friday was also a "Sabbath", Passover, an "appointed Sabbath". One of the 3 appointed feast/Sabbaths all males over 20 were required to present themselves at the temples for.

You're missing out on the alternate explanation of what he said.

2nd Peter 3-8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which is based on Psalms 90-4.

Also look at Matthew 27
40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

If you read Revelation 20 to 22 what he is promising here is that he will provide a new temple in 3000 years. With the new Jerusalem.

So to answer your original question what Jesus Christ is saying here is once he is gone he is going away for 3000 years.

And one other thing. Why the convoluted answer? You need to read Matthew 13.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 12-38 to 40 had happened earlier in the same day. He was already talking to them in parables at that point. Why the parables? If you look it up the prophecy of Isiah/Esaias what he is referring to has to do with curses. Leviticus 26 curses. He already knew about the death of John the Baptist at that point. Even though the actual news may have taken several more days to reach him.

reply to post by micmerci

so, technically thurs- sun

reply to post by micmerci

The eve of the sabbath is Thursday evening

reply to post by Klassified

So our thursday 6pm, was the start of friday to them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Christ was executed on a Thursday

Thank you for replying. Let us try to figure this out then.

Based on what you guys say, if Jesus was entombed on Thursday night, this totals 2 Days and 3 Nights. Jesus specifically said 3 Days and 3 Nights.

So far I still see that the 'Sign of the Prophet Jonas' did not occur as explained. Am I missing something?

reply to post by Sahabi


I explain this thoroughly in an article titled "Peter, the rock to be rolled away.". Check the link in my signature. The sign of Jonah was three days, or 3000 years. The article explains in detail. You are thinking literally. Jesus was speaking of his return during the day of the Lord.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thursday (Day He was crucified, in tomb) before sundown: 1 Day
Friday (Passover) before sundown: 1 Day
Saturday (Sabbath) before sundown: 1 Day
-----------
Days = 3 days


Friday AM/Early Friday (Passover) morning: 1 Night
Saturday AM/Early Saturday (Sabbath) morning: 1 Night
Sunday AM/Early Sunday morning: 1 Night
---------------
Nights = 3 Nights




I think where the confusion is coming from are two places:

1. Not realizing Jews counted it "a day" even if it was only for a couple of hours of that day. (Thursday b4 sundown = 1 day)

2. And two, not realizing that Passion week had two Sabbaths. The calendar Sabbath, and the feast Sabbath of Passover. It's the equivelant of a three day holiday weekend for us. Friday was Passover, Saturday was the regular Sabbath, and Sunday morning they found the tomb empty.

That's 3 days and 3 nights to a Jew. We in the west count days just a tad differently, we start at midnight, not at sundown. Our calendar is solar and not lunar.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Sahabi

 

I explain this thoroughly in an article titled "Peter, the rock to be rolled away.". Check the link in my signature. The sign of Jonah was three days, or 3000 years. The article explains in detail. You are thinking literally. Jesus was speaking of his return during the day of the Lord.

No, see my post. Christ sign, as well as the basis of our faith, was that He rose again after 3 days. Read 1 Corinthians 15.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thanks for helping to explain how you understand it.

Gregorian Calendar, Lunar Calendar, Jewish Calendar, Mayan Calandar.....

I use the Gregorian calendar only for date keeping, but I personally count a day from sunrise to sunset. I count one night from dusk till dawn. Nothing to do with the strike of midnight or hours on a clock. Light is day, dark is night.


The confusion comes from the fact that the majority of Christian churches proclaim 'Good Friday' as the day of Jesus' crucifixion. This would be 1 day and 2 Nights entombed.


I don't know NOTurTypical... the way you explain it is still 2 Days and 3 Nights. They took his body off the cross and prepared the body as the sun was quickly setting. They sealed Jesus' tomb upon sunset. These few minutes or even couple hours does not count as an entire day.

reply to post by ntech


reply to post by EnochWasRight

For as Jonas was....

This wording of "for as" seems to indicate that the sign will be the same as Jonas. Jonas didn't spend thousands of years in a whale.

But I'll entertain your conclusions.

REGARDING: 1 Day = 1 Thousand Years

So.... this means 6 thousand years.... right? 3 days = 3 thousand years and 3 nights = 3 thousand years???


This kind of thing causes uncountable divisions, sects, and branches of Christianity.

For example, let's look at this theoretical passage: "Book of Sahabi 1:23"

Church #1 comes along and says, "This verse is literal."

Church #3 comes along and say, "This verse is metaphorical."

Church #4 comes along and says, "The only way you can understand Sahabi 1:23 is if you combined it and read it with Ibahas 3:12."


Who is the ultimate authority of which verse is literal, which verse is metaphorical, and which verses must be chopped up and combined with a different verse?

reply to post by Sahabi

The confusion comes from the fact that the majority of Christian churches proclaim 'Good Friday' as the day of Jesus' crucifixion. This would be 1 day and 2 Nights entombed.

Dude, that comes from the Roman Catholic church. They gave us Easter and refused to acknowledge Passover. In fact, even set the date to celebrate Easter in such a manner to guarantee it never fell on Passover.

the way you explain it is still 2 Days and 3 Nights. They took his body off the cross and prepared the body as the sun was quickly setting.

No, the way I explained it it is 3 days and 3 nights, I even typed it out in long form.

Yeah, I know it's odd for us. But in their Eastern Semitic culture, and lunar calendar cycle to be in the tomb while there was still sunlight meant one "day", even if it was late in that day. We in Western culture tend to count a "day" as 24 hours. Which is fine too, but Jesus made the statement, we go by His culture. None of the apostles had an isue understanding he was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights... they were Jews from that culture too.

Think of it kinda more like how resorts advertise vacations than how we count days till our next paycheck. They may say "5 days/4 nights" even though you arrive on that first day it's very late in the day, they still count it as a "day".

These few minutes or even couple hours does not count as an entire day.

Hey, I agree to us it doesn't, but not to a Jew. To them it counts as 1 day even if it's an hour at the very end of the day. But what can we do about that? Nothing.

Right here at step #1 above bro:

1. Not realizing Jews counted it "a day" even if it was only for a couple of hours of that day. (Thursday b4 sundown = 1 day)

reply to post by Sahabi


I mean what else should we say? Thank goodness Jesus wasn't on the metric system or He would have had only 10 disciples? It's essentially the same thing. They use a lunar calendar, we use solar.




You are taking the square peg of Lunar Calender/2 Sabbath"s" and trying to pound it into the circle hole of Gregorian Calendar/1 Sabbath.

NOTurTypical,
If we follow this logic all the way through, then your explanation is valid. More valid than mainstream Christianity's version of Jesus' entombment.

Thank you for sticking with the topic to get your point across.

So... should Christendom abolish the concept of "Good Friday"?

Originally posted by Sahabi
NOTurTypical,
If we follow this logic all the way through, then your explanation is valid. More valid than mainstream Christianity's version of Jesus' entombment.

Thank you for sticking with the topic to get your point across.

So... should Christendom abolish the concept of "Good Friday"?

Hey, no problem, just trying to be informative. And yeah, and Christianity should get rid of Easter too. The apostles and first church celebrated Passover, not Easter.

Basically what this all boils down to, His "sign" to the world is the resurrection.

reply to post by Sahabi

If we follow this logic all the way through, then your explanation is valid.

So is that a double-debunking? haha

*discountdoublecheck*

But, other folks here said Thursday also, I just agreed with them.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Sahabi

 

I explain this thoroughly in an article titled "Peter, the rock to be rolled away.". Check the link in my signature. The sign of Jonah was three days, or 3000 years. The article explains in detail. You are thinking literally. Jesus was speaking of his return during the day of the Lord.

No, see my post. Christ sign, as well as the basis of our faith, was that He rose again after 3 days. Read 1 Corinthians 15.

None of the prophecies in the Bible are one thing only. They are always allusions to the next age and point to the final day of the Lord. You are thinking liberally. The Bible is dimensionally expressed by symbol and meaning. All is interrelated to the whole. Rarely does an event or parable have a single narrow meaning.