In the future, I’m right: Letter from Aldous Huxley to George Orwell over 1984

Wow, what an amazing discourse between two visionaries. Personally, I believe the future we live in now is a combination of both. There information age has brought about Huxley's future, the military-industrial complex has brought about Orwell's. Thanks OP! S and F

reply to post by RUSSO


Double Plus Good Thread!

S&F

Originally posted by Matteroni
its a great article, and the huxley vs orwell picture is entertaining, but the internet has the ball now it seems.

also it appears to me that the internet generation is ready to take a stand and topple all of this BS we have going on now with power structures and what not. just look at anonymous for example. its the internet generation making changes and ready to fight against tyranny (or what is perceived as tyranny) in a way that most older people aren't ready to do, maybe because they get most of their info from TV and thus get the idea that everything is okay.

when these TV-watcher generations eventually die off, all we'll be left with is internet generation people and well-informed people who won't take any more of the crap we seem to take nowadays. and when that happens, i think it will be a whole new world.

The internet generation" has proven to be the most naive and open to suggestion.
History always repeats itself, and when it does this time, it will be because the internet generation threw away the checks and balances of the past generations struggles and tribulations.
They already embrace appeasement with open arms, unwilling to recognize morallity much less propogate and defend it.

As for 1984, in the context of history, the world was at the brink of its reallity with Nazi Germany, boots to the face were fresh in peoples minds. It was not so visionary when you see it was published in 1949 and worked on immediatly following WWII. It would not have even been made in 1939, when the horrors of Nazi Germany were still hidden from the masses.

Just a salesman who was wise enough to play on the public sentiment of the times to sell his wares. This is alluded to by his rival in this letter when he mentions there may be future biological or atomic wars where new horrors could emerge. This is a sideways slap to Orwell saying that a new book will come out after the next war, his is nothing special.

Originally posted by Atzil321
I am sure huxley would change his mind if he was around nowadays, and saw the power the internet has on all our lives. I think the ultimate revolution will turn out to be a kind of anarchic state where people reject the long established power structure and herald in a true form of democracy accessible to all. We can already see the seeds of such a thing happening in the world around us right now. Why else do you think TP TB fear the web so much?

I think the internet, TV, movies, magazines etc. are all part of what Huxley meant by hypnosis. If he were around today he would see just how spot on he was,

I agree most people fail to understand the dystopian present. With great truth comes great anxiety, unless great hope is utilized.

I can imagine that this experiment in the governance and management of societies is really being played out globally. When I say 'work' I mean that it is the current system in operation, a government ceases to work when it ceases control. Tyranny can work and does work in certain countries. Theocracies work in other countries. Communism still works in certain other countries. Democratic Republics, Constitutional Monarchies, the list goes on and they all keep evolving. Communism failed in Russia (USSR). Democracies appear to be spreading, but one may question the vehicle that it is riding in.
But wait, here's an interesting one, a communist/socialist system with a quasi-capitalistic bent and a lot of people to feed...I wonder how that one will play out. It might just be the next best thing in human governance, winner take all right?

reply to post by RUSSO


In 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain - The Ministry of Peace
In A Brave New World people were controlled by inflicting pleasure - Soma - Dreamworld...

Orwell thought that what we hated would ruin us...
Huxley thought what we love would ruin us...

and there is so much more...

I think its a great discussion, thanks for bringing it to the table.
Its about time we had a good round of talks on this!

Its a good call to balance in our lives, while we still have time!

The most important essay on the internet

A link to my in-depth summary of Aldous Huxley's essay, A Brave New World Revisited.

Instead of allegories, Huxley explains exactly how our world was turning into A Brave New World. This was written 50 years ago. After reading the essay, you'll see that we followed the path he warned about to the T. And you'll learn some unbelievable things that you did not know about the system.

Huxley was right, our world followed the path of "A Brave New World."
That really is the most important essay on the internet.

Huxley was a terrible novelist(yes, the plot is great in the original novel, A Brave New World, but the writing style is atrocious) but a great essay writer.

I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency. Meanwhile, of course, there may be a large scale biological and atomic war — in which case we shall have nightmares of other and scarcely imaginable kinds.

and my thread clarifying this topic: link

Originally posted by Atzil321
I am sure huxley would change his mind if he was around nowadays, and saw the power the internet has on all our lives. I think the ultimate revolution will turn out to be a kind of anarchic state where people reject the long established power structure and herald in a true form of democracy accessible to all. We can already see the seeds of such a thing happening in the world around us right now. Why else do you think TP TB fear the web so much?

the link i provided in the previous post will make your question and statements become obsolete.
TPTB don't fear the web....they love it; TPTB gave us the internet...it wouldn't be here if they didn't want it to.. It's a source of unlimited distractions for the masses. Even you here on this site, are distracted, and loving your servitude. The most important essay on the internet explains how it doesn't matter if the truth is widespread, and news is easily accessible, because there's so many distractions put out, that the truth is easily buried....it's funny, it's like Huxley knew the internet would be available before it was available...He described a situation that didn't really apply to his current time....
yeah, Huxley was an insider if you do some research.
And T-minus 5 minutes until this thread is no longer on front page....

reply to post by RUSSO


I've never been a big reader in paperback books but reading on a computer is something i take part in everyday, thank you for this post, its given me something more to read over the coming weeks!

Star!

huxley appears to be right with the statement regarding the drowning out of our sense with media , and pleasure, how to combat this ?

Well if you have read any of Huxleys other books , the doors of perception in particular , dont let others entertain you , let your own brain do the entertaining .

Tune in drop out !

Originally posted by Monsatan
reply to post by excelents

 

That isn't how you spell "literary genius"

Personally op, awesome find. I think we are living in a combination as well. All three. Brave new world, 1984, and fahrenheit 451

Fahrenheit 451 got the drone aspect perfectly. The drones are the future to enforce like 1984 while brainwashing like Fahrenheit and brave new world.

1984 changed the books
Fahrenheit burned the books
And brave new world brainwashed people into not caring about books

I had to read all three in school a decade ago and I have always believed we are living in all three at the same time

Hypnotism is the future.
And there's that new patent Sony has on a device to beam info straight to our brains. Probably just going to be for video games,or tv, maybe movies.
Or they miight weaponize it. A hallucination gun, or Hypnosis towers to tell you how to be a good citizen while you sleep. We are headed for all three books

Even today, we burn the books
We change the books
We brainwash people into not caring about the books

edit on 8-3-2012 by Monsatan because: (no reason given)

So couldnt the paranoid combat narco hypnosis by building a faraday cage around your bed ?

Originally posted by CaptChaos
They were both absolutely right. We are now living in a combination of the two. If the people don't fall for the Brave New World paradigm (sex, drugs, entertainment inducing apathy and acceptance) like the US, where they have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker; they get the 1984 treatment, like Libya, if they don't fall for the BS.

Exactly my sentiments. If you look at a place like the UK, they literally have cameras on every corner and there is someone or something watching you at all times in the name of "safety"

If you take a place like Israel, they have snipers and young men with automatic weapons on every corner who're taught from the day they're born to hate the Islamic groups.

Then you have the USA, where we literally have cameras everywhere, and people who sit on their butts all day watching other people go about their normal lives on camera in the name of entertainment.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by RUSSO

 

In 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain - The Ministry of Peace
In A Brave New World people were controlled by inflicting pleasure - Soma - Dreamworld...

Orwell thought that what we hated would ruin us...
Huxley thought what we love would ruin us...

and there is so much more...

I think its a great discussion, thanks for bringing it to the table.

Thanks BTS. Always good read words from you.

when reading in highschool
I think it was brave new world, LOL its been so long ( it may have been 1984 )
they mentioned the cost of a building I think it was $14 million

so I looked up the cost of some comparable buildings and at what date they cost that much
late 40s was the date

good mention of F 451
they made us read that one too
remember the rooms full of screens where they played a part of the script?
Im typing on a big screen and I am part of the play on this thread...and sometimes Im a GAMER

what we have now though isnt outright control , its lurking ready to get us , but we all still have a choice bnot to conform to their wishes.

it's so in front of our faces we cant help it , and it's so easy for them to take advantage of the human condition

I searched the entire first page, and I can't believe no one has mention A Brave New Dystopia. yet! [Chris Hedges] (?)

Many sources - here is one: www.truthdig.com...

Excerpt...

The two greatest visions of a future dystopia were George Orwell’s “1984” and Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World.” The debate, between those who watched our descent towards corporate totalitarianism, was who was right. Would we be, as Orwell wrote, dominated by a repressive surveillance and security state that used crude and violent forms of control? Or would we be, as Huxley envisioned, entranced by entertainment and spectacle, captivated by technology and seduced by profligate consumption to embrace our own oppression? It turns out Orwell and Huxley were both right. Huxley saw the first stage of our enslavement. Orwell saw the second.

We have been gradually disempowered by a corporate state that, as Huxley foresaw, seduced and manipulated us through sensual gratification, cheap mass-produced goods, boundless credit, political theater and amusement. While we were entertained, the regulations that once kept predatory corporate power in check were dismantled, the laws that once protected us were rewritten and we were impoverished. Now that credit is drying up, good jobs for the working class are gone forever and mass-produced goods are unaffordable, we find ourselves transported from “Brave New World” to “1984.” The state, crippled by massive deficits, endless war and corporate malfeasance, is sliding toward bankruptcy. It is time for Big Brother to take over from Huxley’s feelies, the orgy-porgy and the centrifugal bumble-puppy. We are moving from a society where we are skillfully manipulated by lies and illusions to one where we are overtly controlled.

wrong they were both right.

Orwells world is for the people that fight Huxleys world

they are both here waiting for you to pick a side.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
Wow, what an amazing discourse between two visionaries. Personally, I believe the future we live in now is a combination of both. There information age has brought about Huxley's future, the military-industrial complex has brought about Orwell's. Thanks OP! S and F

This is what I believe as well, that they BOTH were right.

What an excellent thread, and it was a pleasure to read that letter.

Originally posted by havok
reply to post by RUSSO

 

This right here, in bold emphasis, is the true meaning of life as we know it.
People love their servitude more than anything in this world.

We don't want servitude.

We want survival. We want to eat. We want an absence of pain. We want all of the things that are required to maintain biological life in general; and preferably also, to do so within a positive context.

It is the psychopaths who insist that we give them our freedom, in exchange for the above things...and all too often, we do it. The reason why is because on the surface, at least, freedom is an intangible thing, but food is tangible. We have not learned yet that we can't have the tangible without having the intangible first. We are in the process of learning that, however; and when we do, the psychopaths' game will be over forever.