'2012 is not 1944': Netanyahu invokes Auschwitz in warning to Obama over Iran

reply to post by DaTroof
That kinda goes against what obama said after his meeting with netanyahu yesterday "the United States will always have Israel's back."He has succumbed to pressure from Israel because it's an election year and the jewish vote is make or break.... How do you americans feel about having your government bent over a barrel in this way?

Originally posted by Atzil321
reply to post by DaTroof

 

That kinda goes against what obama said after his meeting with netanyahu yesterday "the United States will always have Israel's back."He has succumbed to pressure from Israel because it's an election year and the jewish vote is make or break.... How do you americans feel about having your government bent over a barrel in this way?

it is absolutely nuts!

no statement should ever be made by a leader about another country with a supposedly different government and potentially changing policies. anything could happen over time causing the need to eat those words.

...but from the way it sounds, it's practically the same government.

I think we might be under pressure from our own military, which also apparently in a manner of speaking is the same military of Israel.

Are we just looking for a way to keep employed now and get more oil?

Now THIS is what i call disgusting!

I am in no way a supporter of the current Iranian administration and am far from being an Islamic apologist etc, but Netanyahu is trying some sort of emotional blackmail and should be told in no uncertain terms to wind his neck in.

I don't see how anyone can make any comparison with Hitler, his Final Solution and The Aliies reluctance to bomb Auschwitz and the current situation in Iran and the Middle East.
Iran is not conducting or even planning the wholescale genocide of Jews.

Unfortunately their is a massive Jewish voting block in the US and they have massive financial influence.

Israel should be told they can not dictate US or anyone else's foreign policy and that any military intervention will only occur when all diplomatic avenues have been exhausted and as a very last resort and in accordance with any subsequent UN Resolution..
In addittion they should also be told that if they attempt any unilateral military action then they themselves will suffer at least an equal backlash from the UN and the world community.

I don't think any sane or reasonable person really wants Iran to gain nuclear weapon capability but armed conflict really has to be a last resort and Israel can not be allowed to dictate policy and needs to be put squarely in it's place.

I wonder if anyone has the balls to do it?

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Obama should take Iran's side for a number of reasons.

1. Iranian oil production should resume full swing, driving market prices downward globally.
2. Without Israel angering and provoking Arab states, the region becomes more stable and prime for development.
3. Iran has been cooperative with Western powers for quite some time, where Israel has not.


i could continue the list, but those 3 reasons are enough for me.

No matter what the reason, he cant and he won't... because of PR.

The same political capital is gained (or lost) by "not standing alongside" and arm in arm with Israel. And, standing with Israel against Iran" the President loses capital of his lefty liberal (self inc.) base here in the USA so he has taken up a neutral position, in the middle, urging diplomacy. Strategically, we cannot say whether this will turn out to be right or wrong. No one can. Only time and history will tell. My bets are on right... and only possible option.

Madness! Attacking operational nuclear facilities would unleash how many Fukushimas?! Such aggressive, illegal (Geneva convention) war action would be a cataclysmic crime against the whole world! This rogue nations' threat should be considered an all out menace to humanity, ecology and the future of all species!

Zionists, will you still be cheering when your child develops leukemia, for example, by the dispersed radiation?

No kids? How about a backfull of menalomas for yourself?

Chosen people? Sure, chosen to bring us all DEATH!

Netanyahu is right, it is'nt 1944 it's 2012
It's time for people to move on from the holocost thing 70 years ago

Hmm, well now, there are very simple reasons why no one should be going to actual war over Irans nuclear policies. First of all, if there were actual evidence, solid and absolute proof, that the Iranians were building weapons using thier research, then there would ALREADY be war, or at least a supremely terrifying assault on Iran, decapitating its leadership and destroying its nuclear assets in one action.

Second, there is no need to go to war over a weapon that Israel has the technology to completely negate, with the use of lazer defence batteries, which I assure you , have the capacity to utterly neuter a nuclear missile before it even reaches thier airspace. Further they have the intelligence infrastructure to prevent a package bomb being sent across thier borders, with a degree of success that would put most nations to shame.

Third and finally, Israel will not be going to war, or launching its own strikes against Iran, because the very nanosecond that the order becomes action, it knows that many other states will launch tactical counterstrikes, and plunge the entire earth into nuclear oblivion, which benifits no one. If Israel really thought it could get away with pre-emptively striking at Iran, it would already have done so.

Now, lets suppose for a moment that Iran DOES have a nuclear weapon. Let us also suppose that they launch the thing at Israel. The moment that thing gets cooked out of the air, or set upon by MPV drones (thats Multiple-Kill-Vehicles) that will shred it in mid air without it being able to detonate, by Israeli anti nuclear tech, Israel will counterstrike, and so will all the naval forces of the west in the Hormuz area. That counterstrike would be heavier than any damage output the Iranians could hope to produce. They would get butchered from high orbit.

In short, despite the obvious power of nuclear weapons, they are moot. They are moot because of the sheer level of technology that can now be fielded to remove them from the air, and the intelligence that neuters them as a threat on the ground. They are moot also because thier use instantly brings far worse, and far greater devastation to your own land, than you can expect to inflict with thier use. Therefore, even if Iran had a nuclear weapon, it could not hope to use it without itself being utterly wiped off the face of the planet, turned to nothing more than smouldering radiologically contaminated glass, the shadows of its people smashed and burned into the few standing structures still left upright after the most horrific thermonuclear revenge. There are no two ways about it.

The same fate awaits any nation stupid, bullheaded, vengeful, and sick enough, to use a nuclear weapon on another. During the second World War, no one could have imagined the incredible devastation that was vested upon Japan, and even after the first bomb landed, no one would have believed it. It was only when the pictures and documentaries, and facts and figures became available, that the apocalyptic level of damage that these things cause, and continue to cause long after the firestorm abates, became clear. Now that humanity knows what they can do, it is on humanity to prevent thier use in all but the most dire of circumstances. Any nation attempting to ignore its humanity by actually intending to USE these things, must have a sick government. I doubt that the average man in the street in Israel is thinking "You know what? I would really love it, if my government sanctioned the outright death of Iran, and of course, our own nation in retaliation. The very idea is tonic for the soul."

Both Israel and Iran are politicaly backward fascisms with no legitimate freedom anyway. The Iranian government bitterly complain of Western powers dictating thier existance with sanctions, but kill and beat and torture thier own people when they request freedom from thier governments strong and brutal arm. The Israelis complain that they are bracketed by enemies of great power, and use this as an excuse to butcher tens of thousands of unarmed civilians in Palestine, and take land they have no right to for themselves, despite international condemnation. If EITHER nation ever launches nuclear attacks on its enemies, they will be flattened, and they MUST be, to remove such psychopathic, megalomaniacal idiocy immediately and forever.

I was looking for comments from india.. who I guess are neutral but i imagine certainly don't want this crap going on around them..and THEY sure as hell have nukes, but that's ok with us.

i came across this article..

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

part of what he is saying, i like... He mentions that he might not be coming out and saying everything about this... but is pointing that out so people can think about that, instead of veiwing it so cut and dry.

i like the fact that he mentions doing hasty things allows the other side to play the victim card, yet some of it makes it sound like some things have slipped his mind... and that, to me, suggests loads of bad intel... which we get a lot of from israel. for example, if WE are not coming out and saying everything we feel on the matter, then isn't it obvious that other countries are likely doing the same. How sure can he really be that syria is irans only true ally? only as far as the intel he gets.

also, this fear of them making a bomb is totally MOOT... did anybody read what Putin and Russians think about US bullying and propaganda? why in the world does he think Iran needs to MAKE a nuke when there is a Russian warship over there in the waters near Iran. Is that misinformation? is there a russian warship really over there...PRIOR to him making this claim that syria is it's only true ally.

TOTALLY confusing. doesn't add up.

there are other countries who are sick of us as well and just waiting for us to make the wrong move... they are just not coming out and saying it.

also.... He goes on to talk about how well he gets along with netanyaho.... I'm sure he doesn't know this man that well despite their frank talks. people should ALWAYS ALWAYS be weary of the one who makes a lot of efforts to warm up to someone that way. hy does this crap even get mentioned? Who really cares if they seem like they could be buddies. NO PRESIDENT can base such decisions on personal relationships... not even a relationship.. mere FRIENDLY ASSOCIATIONS. something reaks... BAD... and it smells like Israeli intel and psychology games.

i just don't know... i DO think though, that we have bigger stuff to worry about than Iran MAKING nukes.

they probably already HAVE ONE. has anyone NOT noticed how certain they seem of themselves?

the US military and intelligence needs to just get off that issue, but because poking at it is going to cause it to happen. big talks are not helping. Rough talks in the media like this are going nowhere. this doggish behavior just causes bad blood. all this acting big just makes the fighting start... don't men like this get this yet. We'd be better of if our leaders went on TV in tears asking for a meaningful change... and only flexing when it's then right time... and when you DO flex, you use all the energy you kept in peace and you lash out full force in good sound conscience... KNOWING DAMN WELL that you did nothing to ag it on with big talks and political bullying!

why don't people get this?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Originally posted by DaTroof
I hope Obama in his national address tomorrow states that the US will not support Israel's desire for war, and will aid Iran should Israel begin military action.

Instant re-election.

I think that is what Obama is planning.

Can anyone point to ANYTHING at all that supports this conclusion?

I do not mind people speculating, but at the very least speculate in reality. The US will not aid Iran should Israel decide to attack. That idea is, hands down, one of the top 5 most idiotic things I have read on this site.

Did you miss the second half of the article?

He also sought to minimize the differences between himself and Mr Obama. "(Mr Obama) stated clearly that all options are on the table and that American policy is not containment," Mr Netanyahu said. "Israel has exactly the same policy. We're determined to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, we leave all options on the table and containment is definitely not an option."

The only real debate here is WHEN to attack. Not IF attacking is an option or not.

More on topic:

It is absolutely LAUGHABLE that Netanyahu would invoke the bombing debate of Auschwitz for several reason. Let me start off by saying, it is my belief that Netanyahu is only saying this to stir up an emotional response. He wants to paint Israel as the victim and Iran is the new Nazi's who want to destroy the Jewish people. I guess we can add this to the debate of "Does the Zionist regime = all Jews"

In any event, this idea of bombing Auschuwitz is laughable because the idea of bombing the camp, or the railways that lead to the camp was an idea that was shot down by a majority of Jewish Organizations at the time. The Jewish Organizations made the argument that Allies should not bomb places where Jews live. By bombing the railways or the camps, you would just make more victims of the Jews who were at these camps. So is Netanyahu suggesting that the Allies should have went ahead and killed everyone at these camps, including the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were prisoners inside these camps?

Here is a pretty good overview of the debate from Wiki. Read it. Educate yourself.

Auschuwitz Bombing Debate

reply to post by daaskapital


Reminds me of a Metallica song...


"Obey Your Master....Master....."

reply to post by daaskapital



The sad thing about this. If they do go to war, Israel will nuke Iran, and this will start what has been prophesized for ages, the end of the world.

there are some great posts in this thread...

If you read this short one and have no time to read the longer ones... I suggest you find the time.

reply to post by daaskapital


Netanyahu is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East. He's constantly aggressively expanding Israel's settlements, which is like spitting in the face of those who lived there before being evicted. He's a religious fundamentalist and lunatic!!

The old "if you're against Israel's policies, you are automatically an anti-Semite" is getting really old...and is of course complete and utter nonsense. Just because the Jews suffered in WW2 doesn't mean this situation is exactly the same. He's using emotions to justify his IRRATIONAL actions!!

What a clown...you'd have to be a complete an utter moron to fall for this. At least the US military doesn't seem to fall for it yet. The sad part is, if Israel is crazy enough to pre-emptively strike a nation that is NOT an existential threat to Israel (as military leaders correctly state!), it will inevitably pull the US into another expensive war it can't really afford.

Someone needs to take out Netanyahu and his nutcase Israeli leadership.

What really pisses me off is that some idiots really believe this is some "prophecy". They believe their savior will return if some giant war breaks out there. Lunatics, all of them...they're MENTALLY ILL, crazy people, cuckoo for coco puffs, utterly insane!!

PS: I wanna make it clear, I am NOT an anti-Semite...but Israel's foreign and domestic policies are bull#!

If Israel attacks, would other countries such as Lebanon
or maybe even Syria side with Iran?
Remember Egypt is also under military rule and unstable at the moment,
the whole region is a melting pot...well, more than usual

reply to post by MrWendal


I am glad you brought that up. My first thought was why on earth would a Jew be upset over someone not killing other Jews! I think something is wrong with this man, seriously. His first response to 9/11 attacks was this;

In the immediate wake of 9-11, the New York Times’ James Bennett asked Netanyahu what the attacks would mean for Israel’s relations with the United States. “It’s very good”

maxblumenthal.com...

I have to say this was not my first thought

President Ahmadinejad on the other hand says things such as this:

The president said such human values as peace, justice, and freedom were not to be achieved through military intervention.

“These values will be achieved under the auspices of independence and acceptance of mutual rights and empathy and cooperation not through dependence on the current unrighteous world management or arrogant powers' intervention or through the barrels of the [US-led military alliance of] NATO's guns,” he asserted.

www.presstv.ir...

but then we have to realize who it was to commit the worlds first terrorist attack, which oddly resembles 9/11

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Jameela


Thanks for the video link. I had never heard of this before and you have given me something new to sink my teeth into!

If anyone did not click the video link, this is it. Very interesting.

Talk about pouring it on? Since when did a foreign leader dictate foreign policy to another nation, and on another nation's soil no less? This goes beyond the pale of responsible rhetoric on such a controversial topic. I do not want the Iranian regime acquiring nuclear weapons and if diplomacy and sanctions fail? Then I am open for other measures.

However, for a foreign leader to insult and badger an ally on its own soil is obnoxious and rude! Lets face it, if a military operation is take place? If Israel goes alone? They will be in the position of taking pot shots at Iran's nuclear program. At least in a conventional bombing campaign. I don't even see them getting all of it in one strike?

It seems Iran has spread out much of their nuclear program to multiple locations, and then there is the fortified installation inside that mountain to contend with as well. If any of the mission is successful? That is a big "IF?' Israel is going to have to face the wrath of Iran and its allies in the region after such a campaign. With those obstacles present? I would of thought Prime Minister Netanyahu would have been a little more diplomatic and cordial on this latest visit? His first speaking engagement, and he comes out of the gate swinging? I fail to see the logic in that approach?

The President should at the very least correct Mr. Netanyahu on his abrasive tone, and reiterate the importance of good relations between Israel and the US when it comes to military conflict against Iran. Furthermore, the support and military assistance provided by the US is not a given, and open ended. The prime minister must realize that US service members are going to be put in harm's way, a military operation will make an already vulnerable economy even more vulnerable, and an attack will open up the US to terrorist attacks when Iran responds.

This latest speech is flat out disrespectful, and the Prime Minister of Israel needs to be reminded of that. He can say what ever wants in his own country, but while in the US a certain tact and etiquette should be observed. What happened in 1944 happened then, but this is 2012! Could of, should of, would of, and hind sight is 20/20.

reply to post by DaTroof


OH, but that never happen because the agenda behind the oil wars is about control of oil production no making it plentiful as will happen if the middle east was stable and prosperous.

What is happening in the middle east with oil producing nations is nothing but an agenda of greed.

Regardless of the barking of Israel that happen not to have a drop of oil in their advantage, even prophecies have been foretold of the black gold and those that have it.

Israel government is plague by greed, deception and anger that while they have been tagged by religion to be the chosen ones in Gods eyes, they actually are Dependant of US tax payer dollars and oil to survive, God have not been very nice to them at all.

Now they want the blood of American soldiers to be spill once again in their behave.

Greed is what is running the world when it comes to whom is in power to control oil supplies.

At the end the sheep's will walk willingly in the name of God's will to fight for the greedy ones.

BTw i am neither religious or follow any organized religion.

reply to post by daaskapital


Reporters don't sit in on private meetings between Netanyahu and Obama so how the hell do they know what was said between the two men?

reply to post by MrWendal


Your welcome, although you can not much thank me as I did nothing. I had been on youtube searching for a completely different video and this came up as one of the selections. The title was intriguing so I clicked it and watched. I was shocked by something in the video, more than the fact that the Jews were the first ever terrorists, but one comment that was made by the leader of it. Because of the comment I had to watch the video three times just to make sure he actually said it- it shocked me so.

Let me go into some bit of detail first.The first ever sin was committed, according to Christianity and Islam, by someone Muslims call Iblees (la) which translates to Satan in english. His (la) sin was that of pride, God commanded him to do a thing and he said no, because he knew better than God. Therefore God cursed him, because he was prideful and set himself to be higher than God.

Islam teaches us is to have patience in all things, patience is a large part of Islam, and we spend our lives trying to perfect our patience. We are taught God knows better than we and all things will happen in God's timing. There is nothing we can do to affect God, we can speed nothing up nor stop anything, all we can do is to do our best everyday in trying to be the best person we can be.

All that to say this, I know that was long! But the man in the video said they could not wait on the Messiah (as) any longer, they (the zionists) tired of the wait. Therefore took matters into their own hands. That shocked me because that is the worst sin of all. There is no greater sin than this, to think you know better than God. Basically, these are a people who believe they have a God given right to something, yet believe they know better than God and wait on God no more.

That is the most terrifying part of the whole video to me. And to me, it explains absolutely everything.