OBL was not buried at sea: Stratfor analysts

Originally posted by binkbonk
At this point I would like to preface everything I say with a blanket IMO... Isn't that implicitly implied anyway? Everything that is said is an opinion of the person saying it, unless direct irrefutable evidence is also presented. You are creating an issue out of the obvious.

i would say, in a world where common sense reigns, but in todays world where lies rule the kingdom. i would definitely say that an automatic assumption that everyone accepts peoples opinion's with respect is not "implicitly implied".
unfortunately everyone knows everything and no one is ever wrong.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good thread about Bin Laden's death hoax.

Sounds like this was set up. Basically 'oh see I knew they lied about OBL, but we still killed him go america!' I wonder so much about wikileaks and all the previous OBL death articles that were out long before this need answering still.

Great find either way, I found this as well and was going to post about it myself

EDIT:
also considering OBL's body was worth 27 million, imagine them dumping that into the sea 'out of respect'

Originally posted by DuecesxGeneral
OBL needed medics on standby he was that sick.
I was at my best friend's house and coincidentally, his sister came home on a break from the Army.
I asked her, tell me something that most people do not know. And let me remind you, i heard this months before the OBL death propaganda( btw its sick seeing thousands of people celebrating a man's death) . She told me hes been caught. He was in California getting a medical transplant done.

This kind of thing would be on a strictly "NEED TO KNOW" basis .. pardon me but I have very strong doubts she would be privy to this information unless she was a seriously high ranking individual, or was directly involved in the operation.. This information isn't given out freely to members of the armed services.. do you know why? because of things like this ... ( her telling you, you posting here ) ..

Originally posted by binkbonk

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
OBL was never killed, he died of natural causes.

It's a theory among many, with no evidence..

I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but there's still nothing to back that up.. as long as he's dead, I don't really care though.

And where is the evidence to back up the government's 'official' story???

edit on 5-3-2012 by binkbonk because: (no reason given)

There's probably more evidence for the government story than made up conspiracy theories on an ATS forum and the speculation of a stratfor analyst I'm afraid .. I'm sure more will come out over time.. I could also claim OBL was abducted by zombie hitler to plan world war 3 and be just as accurate as many of the theories floating around. =)

I've noticed a tendency for people to shrug off official reports as unbelievable but they'll also jump all over speculation that has zero supporting evidence.. I can't say I've ever really understood why a rational person would do that.

reply to post by miniatus

I've noticed a tendency for people to shrug off official reports as unbelievable but they'll also jump all over speculation that has zero supporting evidence.. I can't say I've ever really understood why a rational person would do that.

A person does that because the government has absolutely no credibility. They don't have any credibility because they have been caught lying many times and they never ever ever keep their promises, on top of that they do a crappy job of governing, and have illustrated an agenda of putting their own needs and desires before upholding their commitments to serving the people they are entrusted to serve.

I now do not think that there is not a chance in a million years that Bin Laden is dead!

Either A> He is working with the CIA somewhere (like he did originally)
or B> He is in a secret prison somewhere.

Either way this is outrageous.

Originally posted by binkbonk
reply to post by miniatus

 

I've noticed a tendency for people to shrug off official reports as unbelievable but they'll also jump all over speculation that has zero supporting evidence.. I can't say I've ever really understood why a rational person would do that.

A person does that because the government has absolutely no credibility. They don't have any credibility because they have been caught lying many times and they never ever ever keep their promises, on top of that they do a crappy job of governing, and have illustrated an agenda of putting their own needs and desires before upholding their commitments to serving the people they are entrusted to serve.

That's true to an extent, but as much as I'm displeased with the government I still find that to be a heavy exaggeration .. Not all members of this government are evil.. there's still alot of good members working in that big machine.. And it's harder to keep secrets than you might think.. The problem with these conspiracy theories is that they give the government FAR more credit than it deserves.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by binkbonk
reply to post by Varemia

 

You come on conspiracy site to defend the official story? That's what I love, coming to a forum where people are trying to piece together the truth, for truths sake, and then you try to defend the government and it's official story. You come here to put people down who are just trying to find the truth. Good job dude

Is there something about my posts that makes them blurry and incomprehensible? I'm saying that I will not take the word of the government nor conspiracy theorists without proof! And even the government has been known to fabricate it. You people are some of the worst readers I've ever seen.

hacked emails are the closest to proof we'll ever get and in my eyes they are irrefutable.
I hope anonymous keep hacking and get out more government truths that we are aware of yet haven't been able to concretely prove.

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
I now do not think that there is not a chance in a million years that Bin Laden is dead!

Either A> He is working with the CIA somewhere (like he did originally)
or B> He is in a secret prison somewhere.

Either way this is outrageous.

I'm pretty sure he's dead.. I do believe his medical condition was grave.. I also believe we either took him out as reported, or if anything.. I believe an alternate version that is more likely could be that bin laden died from his condition AT the compound.. the US Govt. was notified and allowed to go in, stage an attack.. and remove the already dead body.

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
hacked emails are the closest to proof we'll ever get and in my eyes they are irrefutable.

Hacked e-mails are ok but they come with a few glaring issues..

a) it's horribly easy to forge an e-mail and the logs that go with it..
b) these e-mails are originating from a company that is a contractor for the govt, they aren't THE government.. As pointed out, the email in question was pure speculation by a stratfor analyst ... and in my mind I can't figure out how that person would have any need to know this information - there's no reason anyone would report it to him.. Something like OBL would be a very tightly kept secret.. pure need to know.. NOT something you'd pass on to a sub-contractor outside of the government.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
hacked emails are the closest to proof we'll ever get and in my eyes they are irrefutable.

Hacked e-mails are ok but they come with a few glaring issues..

a) it's horribly easy to forge an e-mail and the logs that go with it..
b) these e-mails are originating from a company that is a contractor for the govt, they aren't THE government.. As pointed out, the email in question was pure speculation by a stratfor analyst ... and in my mind I can't figure out how that person would have any need to know this information - there's no reason anyone would report it to him.. Something like OBL would be a very tightly kept secret.. pure need to know.. NOT something you'd pass on to a sub-contractor outside of the government.

I would rule out A> because if that was the case then this organisation would not have bit and released a statement.

You do have a point with B> which is a big question, however the US gov is big for contracting out services to the private sector which should be run by the public sector.

The other big question mark I have is where the seals are that raided this house.
Granted we had evidence of them using a X tech helicopter which showed that this was a high profile incident, however we have never heard anything from the team members. Baring in mind that the people that 'killed' bin laden, or even the people on the 'boat' which transported the alleged body are sitting on a gold mine if they sold their story to the media. An absolute fortune!!! Then not too long after wasn't there a 'helicopter crash' that killed people from the team which apparently killed Bin Laden that night.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
OBL was never killed, he died of natural causes.

Right.

He died in 2002 or 2001.

We may have killed on of his known CIA ops doubles.

Originally posted by Holodomor

Its been rumored quite a bit even before his death that he was in Pakistan and that the Pakis were providing him refuge. While I say that is a possibility, I have to expect that, due to our extremely close relations with the Pakistani government, the U.S. was involved to some extent. It is true that OBL spent most of his time escaping Afghanistan in very luxurious areas (by their standards)...probably very little was spent in caves. We very likely knew where he was but either:

A.) held off killing him until the opportunity for a morale-boosting opportunity, and dumped the body at sea
or
B.) kept him protected until we could be sure we no longer needed him for another false flag attack, assassinated him, and buried him in an unmarked grave, likely in Arlington Cemetery or the like.

It depends on whether or not you believe 9/11 was perpetrated by our government (I personally don't share that belief, but it is an option on the table). I would not be surprised if option B was somewhat correct.

You know I'd tend to believe what people suggest about Usama Bin Laden being under the protection of the Pakistani Government if this were England or Germany or some other Western allied nation he'd been found hiding in. As it is though, it's Pakistan. Their Intelligence service (The ISI) has been running it's own agenda since the Soviets were next door in the 80's. The Agendas just so happen to coincide often enough to call them an ally, not an enemy.....but we sure stretch the term to the breaking point on this example.

I have NO question Bin Laden's position was known...but NO WAY it was known by U.S. Forces or CIA. No way. It isn't that I imagine them with sudden virtue or human decency, it's that Bin Laden personally caused the deaths of enough high level people in U.S. Intelligence and Military since he started in the early 90's that a lone case Officer or Special Forces guy would likely have gotten themselves killed going after Bin Laden themselves if our side knew...or more than a literal HANDFUL of people knew.

So.... i'd say it's what it appeared to be..or it was to 99.999% of the Americans involved, anyway. He just didn't die that night and he sure didn't become fish food, Was he killed later? Is he wishing he WAS dead as we sit here typing? Hard to say..but I think we can be sure that he'll never be seen or heard from in public again, either way.

I can honestly say that I do not care anymore.

This person's word is supposed to be more believable than the last ten thousand leaked reports or comments by others

I really do not know what happened and neither does anyone else.

If we should learn something from history is that if our government really does'nt want us to know, we wont.

But everybody is so sure of what happened

Were you there? (to anybody in general) Because I was not.

Originally posted by Loopdaloop

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by Loopdaloop
hacked emails are the closest to proof we'll ever get and in my eyes they are irrefutable.

Hacked e-mails are ok but they come with a few glaring issues..

a) it's horribly easy to forge an e-mail and the logs that go with it..
b) these e-mails are originating from a company that is a contractor for the govt, they aren't THE government.. As pointed out, the email in question was pure speculation by a stratfor analyst ... and in my mind I can't figure out how that person would have any need to know this information - there's no reason anyone would report it to him.. Something like OBL would be a very tightly kept secret.. pure need to know.. NOT something you'd pass on to a sub-contractor outside of the government.

I would rule out A> because if that was the case then this organisation would not have bit and released a statement.

You do have a point with B> which is a big question, however the US gov is big for contracting out services to the private sector which should be run by the public sector.

The other big question mark I have is where the seals are that raided this house.
Granted we had evidence of them using a X tech helicopter which showed that this was a high profile incident, however we have never heard anything from the team members. Baring in mind that the people that 'killed' bin laden, or even the people on the 'boat' which transported the alleged body are sitting on a gold mine if they sold their story to the media. An absolute fortune!!! Then not too long after wasn't there a 'helicopter crash' that killed people from the team which apparently killed Bin Laden that night.

I do believe the organization said ( in relation to a ) that some of the e-mails appeared to be tampered with, I don't have a source link .. but I agree they are acknowledging information has been leaked and it's a black eye for them as a security/intelligence agency.. but that really is absolutely NOT to say that everything contained therein is untouched/unaltered or even factually accurate to begin with..

As for the seal members, I do believe this was addressed the same day they announced his death... they said the identity of those members would be kept secret.. Indeed this is not unusual, many special op soldiers who did big operations have never been identified until after their death, and some not even then.. For members of this seal team, killing Osama would be something they would not want to be known the world over for.. they would all, and their families. become targets by many extremists .. logically.. I'm not at all surprised by that.. it's pretty standard.

I saw a special on the history channel about special ops soldiers over the years.. many of which don't receive special honors or recognition until they die.. they aren't all gold diggers looking to sell their story.. those members are hand picked for their character, performance and overall integrity .. they aren't in it for the glory.

Originally posted by Loopdaloop Baring in mind that the people that 'killed' bin laden, or even the people on the 'boat' which transported the alleged body are sitting on a gold mine if they sold their story to the media. An absolute fortune!!! Then not too long after wasn't there a 'helicopter crash' that killed people from the team which apparently killed Bin Laden that night.

As I understand the SEAL teams by reading about it, these are the guys who would give Captain America an inferiority complex and make him look wimpy for patriotism. We'll see some serious books come out years from now when the major people aren't in a position to be hurt or even killed by the details some surely have to share. Just like things in the past.

As for the Chinook crash that killed another element of Seal Team Six, it wasn't the same guys. Seal Six has many elements and only one part of the overall team was involved with Bin Laden. I think it's entirely possible the Afghani's didn't understand all those distinctions though and an inside job could have happened from our "allies". I've certainly wondered how closely this really HAS come to resemble Vietnam with sand. Right down to the loyalties of those were supposed to be there helping. Something smelled rotten about that crash,

Originally posted by miniatus
That's true to an extent, but as much as I'm displeased with the government I still find that to be a heavy exaggeration .. Not all members of this government are evil.. there's still alot of good members working in that big machine.. And it's harder to keep secrets than you might think.. The problem with these conspiracy theories is that they give the government FAR more credit than it deserves.

That's kinda the problem i've been running into. most conspiracies require entirely too much cooperation from TPTB and deem them geniuses for carrying out such a plot. at the same time there are some plausible conspiracies, but maybe not with as much entanglement as some theorize, rather just a vague goal and manipulation of the lesser people involved by twisting the motive.

I have a lot of trouble believing OBL was buried at sea. It's not like they were on there way back and said, hey this dude is stinking up the joint so let's just dump him out in the middle of no where.

Just not buying it. Not when OBL was the #1 TOP Most Wanted person on the planet by the US goverment with a $25 Million bounty on his head.

Originally posted by binkbonk

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
OBL was never killed, he died of natural causes.

It's a theory among many, with no evidence..

I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but there's still nothing to back that up.. as long as he's dead, I don't really care though.

And where is the evidence to back up the government's 'official' story???

edit on 5-3-2012 by binkbonk because: (no reason given)

I see he just skipped the evidence that has been posted