Pictures requested by popular demand of planes in Groom and the NTS

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Including the RQ-170 which I guess is still technically somewhat classified but known, I know of four aircraft classified in the black world, two UAV's and two manned aircraft (one was possibly just a demonstrator, not full size...). I've seen three of them and another boom told me a wild story when he got back from a TDY at Edwards about the forth.

Also, you know that MiG's are refuelable right???


by the way if you want to know the true story of this patch below and what squadron it belongs to, ask me sometime

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


I don't think you should be asking stuff like that so stop asking specifics. He wont answer and you should respect that.

But here is some nice info on classified programs by just the Lockheed family.

On the subject of UAVs, Romig allowed that Skunk Works has much more than the RQ-170 in its classified product stable. "There's a whole large collection of classified programmes (within Lockheed) in the area of small UAVs," Romig said.

Link

boomer135: How long do we have to wait before we ask? HA HA Could you tell us about the patch?

BTW This thread has more content per post than I've seen on ATS in a while.

I know a bit about the patch. I know what it stands for at least. That really chaps some ass sometimes too.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Haha yeah it does. Try telling that to the strike eagle drivers. lol (yes in my opinion they are the cockiest pilots). NKAWTG...N!

Well most people know its the tanker motto. "Nobody Kicks Ass Without Tanker Gas....Nobody!"

I'll start with the phrase. The rumor is that the Grissom boys started using NKAWTG back in 1984 for special ops missions down south. This is backed up by David English's book "The Air Up There" where he says the same thing.

As for the patch, it started way back in the day for the 384th ARS out of McConnell AFB, KS. This used to be the only squadron on the KC-135 side (ask gariac for the KC-10s in the range, probably Sierra 99) that was certified for special ops. And they still are in some ways, except during times of war and stuff. We can't normally refuel below 10,000 feet AGL, but the 384th could for spec op missions involving say an AC-130 or other variant. And that has to do with the flight characteristics of the boom at low speed and low altitude. It takes quite a bit of muscles to hold the boom up to 30 on the elevation at that speed. Nowadays, most Instructor level booms are certified to do this.

Back to topic, the 384th ARS still uses "spooky" (from the spy vs spy character) on their nametags. Edwards AFB has two refueling squadrons (although I only know of one KC-135 they actually own): the 445th FLTS (active duty) and the 370th FLTS (guard). The 445th owns all experimental testing while the 370th own all developmental testing, but they both can share, depending on mission needs. As most people already know, Edwards calls for Active and Guard squadrons from all over the US to go there for two week TDY's. Usually it's two jets/crews every two weeks, except during busy times like the F-22 or F-35 (just saw google earth's new imagery of Edwards with five total KC-135's on the ramp, probably F-35 testing).

Anyway, when I was in, my first TDY to Edwards was in 2002 and last was in 2006. We belong to the 445 FLTS during our time there and you have to have a TS clearance, not an interim clearance (all booms have TS clearances or interim clearances (investigation ongoing for clearance) for SIOP purposes). Now when we leave our base, we were expecting to be there for F-22 support, at least that's what our paperwork says. But when you get there it's hit or miss what you get to do. If your flight plan is going into the "box" area tracks, most likely your going to have security with you (but not always), and most likely your going to see something maybe a dozen people have seen before, depending on the compartmentalization of the project.

I know it's a little off topic but it explains the patch in due time. Well these two week missions consisting of flying every morning or night for around 3-4 hours and culminated with leaving on the second friday, heading back home. If you were one of the lucky ones to see a black project, then the 445th Squadron Commander and Chief Boom gave you the infamous tanker black world patch shown above. It's also known as a Friday or morale patch, and they discouraged it's use off base and outside of Edwards. I got mine in 2002, as a fresh instructor boom much to the jealousy of fellow booms back home, on my second trip to Edwards. We also got a certificate that was actually classified Secret and had to be carried in our "secrets" bag. When returning to our home base, the certificates were displayed in the Top Secret SIOP/8044 briefing room in the vault for everyone to see. That certificate was the first time I've seen the six stars used in conjunction with Area 51 (if you don't know what I'm talking about don't ask) . I can't say what else was on it, unfortunately.

So that's the story of the tanker black world patch. Not too glamorous I know, but at least it has an interesting story behind it, probably like most of the patches from the black world. Anybody have any questions I'll answer as much as I can, but you know the rules of classified material.

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Haha yeah it does. Try telling that to the strike eagle drivers. lol (yes in my opinion they are the cockiest pilots). NKAWTG...N!

Well most people know its the tanker motto. "Nobody Kicks Ass Without Tanker Gas....Nobody!"

I'll start with the phrase. The rumor is that the Grissom boys started using NKAWTG back in 1984 for special ops missions down south. This is backed up by David English's book "The Air Up There" where he says the same thing.

As for the patch, it started way back in the day for the 384th ARS out of McConnell AFB, KS. This used to be the only squadron on the KC-135 side (ask gariac for the KC-10s in the range, probably Sierra 99) that was certified for special ops. And they still are in some ways, except during times of war and stuff. We can't normally refuel below 10,000 feet AGL, but the 384th could for spec op missions involving say an AC-130 or other variant. And that has to do with the flight characteristics of the boom at low speed and low altitude. It takes quite a bit of muscles to hold the boom up to 30 on the elevation at that speed. Nowadays, most Instructor level booms are certified to do this.

Back to topic, the 384th ARS still uses "spooky" (from the spy vs spy character) on their nametags. Edwards AFB has two refueling squadrons (although I only know of one KC-135 they actually own): the 445th FLTS (active duty) and the 370th FLTS (guard). The 445th owns all experimental testing while the 370th own all developmental testing, but they both can share, depending on mission needs. As most people already know, Edwards calls for Active and Guard squadrons from all over the US to go there for two week TDY's. Usually it's two jets/crews every two weeks, except during busy times like the F-22 or F-35 (just saw google earth's new imagery of Edwards with five total KC-135's on the ramp, probably F-35 testing).

Anyway, when I was in, my first TDY to Edwards was in 2002 and last was in 2006. We belong to the 445 FLTS

during our time there and you have to have a TS clearance, not an interim clearance (all booms have TS clearances or interim clearances (investigation ongoing for clearance) for SIOP purposes). Now when we leave our base, we were expecting to be there for F-22 support, at least that's what our paperwork says. But when you get there it's hit or miss what you get to do. If your flight plan is going into the "box" area tracks, most likely your going to have security with you (but not always), and most likely your going to see something maybe a dozen people have seen before, depending on the compartmentalization of the project.

I know it's a little off topic but it explains the patch in due time. Well these two week missions consisting of flying every morning or night for around 3-4 hours and culminated with leaving on the second friday, heading back home. If you were one of the lucky ones to see a black project, then the 445th Squadron Commander and Chief Boom gave you the infamous tanker black world patch shown above. It's also known as a Friday or morale patch, and they discouraged it's use off base and outside of Edwards. I got mine in 2002, as a fresh instructor boom much to the jealousy of fellow booms back home, on my second trip to Edwards. We also got a certificate that was actually classified Secret and had to be carried in our "secrets" bag. When returning to our home base, the certificates were displayed in the Top Secret SIOP/8044 briefing room in the vault for everyone to see. That certificate was the first time I've seen the six stars used in conjunction with Area 51 (if you don't know what I'm talking about don't ask)

. I can't say what else was on it, unfortunately.

So that's the story of the tanker black world patch. Not too glamorous I know, but at least it has an interesting story behind it, probably like most of the patches from the black world. Anybody have any questions I'll answer as much as I can, but you know the rules of classified material.

Great read man. Enjoyed that little history lesson.

reply to post by boomer135


I had heard some of that, but wasn't aware of the Edwards connection. I knew a few booms that loved to shove the fighter jocks noses in that motto. The fighter jocks always tried to get back at them. One day two of them decided to give the tanker guys an impromptu airshow, to show what they could do, and rub in the fact that a -135 pretty much goes straight and level. It lost a lot when they had to tank right after.

reply to post by Zaphod58


nice. People would be surprised at what a KC-135 could do in the air. Maybe not barrel rolls and crap, but we got a bag of tricks we can use with Tactics. At the Deid during OIF, they brought the strike eagles in and ruined the heavy aircraft mentality we had going. They would talk all the crap in the world to us. So we used to get up there with them, hook up in contact, then not pump any gas They would be like "Hey were not getting anything". Then we would be like "Um, showing 1500 pounds a minute, check your gauges."

reply to post by boomer135


Yeah, you don't screw with your only supply of fuel. They tend to get mean in return.

reply to post by boomer135

reply to post by defcon5


Wow that is awesome! By far the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Don't suppose you could pm me a link to others could ya?

Anyone interested in working with the RQ-170 system?

RQ-170 Operations Support Analyst

I've run across several of these in the last couple months from various flavors of contractors, including CACI.

Originally posted by Laxpla
reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN

 

I don't think you should be asking stuff like that so stop asking specifics. He wont answer and you should respect that.

But here is some nice info on classified programs by just the Lockheed family.

OK, sorry. This is only my curiosity.

reply to post by boomer135


Any chance we could hear your buddy's wild story?

reply to post by Tajlakz


To us it was just another day at the office but to people who havent seen these aircraft before it can be quite entertaining. The story itself I wont say but he refueled something that nobody has done before at the time. After a couple more years of doing this, I never got to refuel it but other booms had and the word was out about it. I've hinted about it in other posts around ATS but you'll have to put your own conclusions together. I will neither confirm or deny any information that may incriminate myself or others.....yet.

Originally posted by boomer135
reply to post by Tajlakz

 

I've hinted about it in other posts around ATS but you'll have to put your own conclusions together. I will neither confirm or deny any information that may incriminate myself or others.....yet.

Heh, worth a try There are some good nuggets of information to be found by combing through the posts of certain 'interesting' ATS members...

reply to post by Tajlakz


haha that aint no lie. I've learned the identity of several ATS members by piecing together info.

boomer135

I have only one question again, if at Groom in 1999 were tested some stealth planes? I mean about, if at Groom in 1999 was tested one stealth or a several?

Regards!

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


Like I already said, I wasn't there in 1999 so I can't tell you for sure what was going on there. I didn't go til 3 years later. But do you want to know what I think? sure. I think we had more than one stealth at groom in 1999. But I don't know for sure if there was cause I wasn't there.

Hey Boomer, I would like to ask you a question. I have been talking about it a little her on ATS and I would like your honest opinion if you would please. I figured that since you were in a position to maybe be a little more proficient than others around here.

Why do you think that we are still using turbine engines for propulsion?

Let me elaborate if I can to try to convey my question a little better.

From the time flight was invented to the time of turbine engines were invented, that was only about 50 years give or take. Within that time we saw internal combustion engines, rockets(solid and liquid), and turbine engines.

Why after 50 to 60 years later have we not started using anything more efficient, or completely different in design?

Do you think that the military had anything different in design and tested it?

I know that the answer is purely speculation but I would like your honest opinion. I hope you do not think this is a silly question, I am truly stumped as yo why after 5 plus decades we are still using petroleum products for propulsion.