Alternate View on NASA

After some thought and consideration of other viewpoints on "NEVER A STRAIGHT ANSWER", could it be that NASA is FORCED to lie, against their true desires to inform us, about things they discover in space by the likes of those ultra covert 3-letter agencies?

How did I come to this idea?
Consider the videos and transmissions released by NASA, the hella shoddy photo editing, astronauts coming forward and other subtle things that make you think, "if they're trying to hide it, why don't they do a better job??"

Imagine being in a key role at NASA and you have on your desk evidence of ET life... a group of large stern faced men enter your offices, lays pictures of your family on the desk and tells you that if you release the evidence to the public and establish, as proven fact, the existence of ET life in our solar system, they will do unimaginable harm to you and your family.... what do you do?

Of course some of the "web heroes" will boldly proclaim "I would still release the info because its my duty as a human and patriot to expose the truth and take down the evil government blah blah blah..." or some other crap along those lines ..........Shut up. No the *SNIP* you wouldn't. Its faaar too easy to type tough, anonymously in a random forum.

Back to what I was saying... most of us have seen those shoddy photo editing jobs... you know, the ones that look like they were done in MS Paint by a middle-schooler. If NASA was truly down for the conspiracy, why wouldn't they just hire a professional? Why leave such blatant evidence of tampering?

On that same note, why release videos featuring objects that CANNOT IN ANY WAY be explained away as "ice" etc?

It just seems like for all of their efforts to hide whatever is going on, that effort is almost totally rendered pointless by the crappiness of their discretion and hide-jobs....almost like they're dry-snitching (indirectly telling something)

What are your thoughts ATS? Is NASA as bad as we think or they just caught up in a bind where they have no choice but to comply (but do the best they can to let truth leak out)?


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

NASA is a government-founded organization. Which comes down to this: They do what the feds say, or they get shut down and put in the unemployment line. At worst, they will all end up in unfortunate but purely coincidental accidents that result in the deaths of every single person involved, including their families.

NASA, since it isn't a private organization, has absolutely no choice in what it can or cannot do, and what it can or cannot reveal to the public. Government pension equals government rules. If you can't play the game, you get booted. Or 'iced'. CIA controls some of NASA's strings, rendering half of its operations and discoveries "sensitive material".

So any conspiracy or any coverup linked to NASA is because NASA had no choice. Given the option of either keeping my mouth shut and seeing more of these "secrets", or getting fired and/or killed, I would stay silent and wait for the right time to spill everything.

There's cowardice, and then there's tactful silence. I would rather NASA be quiet than have it be shut down completely, or have its valuable employees "eliminated".

My 2 cents on the subject.

reply to post by Starchild23


I used to be totally anti-NASA but this new perspective has changed my opinion. In the situation presented combined with the facts you gave, what else could they honestly do? Actually, if things are the way I'm starting to think they are, aren't they sort of brave for doing the best they can to inform us without getting on the bad side of the gubment?

I am surprised anyone with a family would work for any federal government agency that deals with anything covert or puts you at risk of leaking anything even on accident.

i think it's possible they are trying to leak us some hints, but since everything they leak gets debunked as space debrie or ice particles and sun light reflections i don't know man.
if there wasn't such thing than why release footage of unexplainable things and transmissions were they clearly say that there's something up there with them. words like ufo, bogey, space craft. cmon. not to mention the astronauts telling us we are not alone.
so it's very likely that some key scientists know whats out there but tptb got them on the leash.
i believe we are gonna get our proof of et life from science, and nasa is trying to find it ot there for sure. but its gonna be most likley microbial life.

Originally posted by randomthoughts12
I am surprised anyone with a family would work for any federal government agency that deals with anything covert or puts you at risk of leaking anything even on accident.

Wow you're really surprised? Lol CIA, NSA, FBI, DHS, etc... you think all of those government agencies are bachelor's clubs? Northern Virginia would like a word with you.

reply to post by Watts


hahah i just imagined what the first questions asked in an job interview with one of those 3 letter agencys would be!

Are you a family man? lol

Are you single?

Just don't eliminate the long-shot hypothesis that the 'astronaut UFO' lore is totally mythological and misrepresentational, and you're completely off base in your fundamental assumptions. You don't have to believe it -- just admit to yourself that it's remotely possible. Then work with evidence, not just fantasy.

Unfortunately, we see this type of black-and-white scenario argued all of the time on the UFO situation. There always will be disgruntled people within any system that make end-runs about the company rules, do sloppy work, or interpret the rules by their own standards. Such are to be expected in any dynamic system.

In the case with NASA, view it as two things, a completely controlled industry for the business of space activities of all kinds, and as a school, a controlled teaching institution, to bring the public up to speed about the cosmos.

In reality, the whole setup is similar to what Sagan preached: The math virtually proves that ETs are out there somewhere, but they can't get here...but, we'll send plaques out on our deep space probes and send experiments to Mars to search for microbial live in the dirt. But never, never should either area concern itself with public discussions or examinations of evidence for UFOs. --Doesn't that strike you as strange, counter-intuitive to the stated goals?

I have mentioned that avoidance is so strictly controlled that NASA's huge gift shop at Cape Canaveral displays not a single ball cap, key chain postcard or T-shirt that mentions or pictures a UFO or alien. Nada! Does that simply display a lack of a sense of humor by NASA or a agency-wide policy?

Some people cry for DISCLOSURE! But the plan is merely one of PREPARATION via a slow and steady route controlled by what NASA throws out there and hauls back in its electronic nets. All very much controlled, filtered, verified plotted on the master chart of the psychological profile of how humans can be lead to accept the inevitable once that day comes.

It all seems so natural that most folks will never give it a second thought. The thing of it is, is that itisa natural process, designed to be just that, but that doesn't mean iy isn't carefully monitored and controlled.

NASA show´s us what they can show us, not what they want to show us.Now look at photos from the Cydonia region on Mars.It´s possible that NASA has already landed a rover in that region, and they know that there really is an ancient city there. Perhaps what they know and what they have seen, are far from what people of Earth can handle at this present time.Look at the chaos that many of the world religions are causing.What would the reaction be if NASA comes clean with all of their findings?

Lol NASA are a bunch of geeks who are fascinated by space and the universe... however the fact that NASA is a federal agency =D that's the overpaid suits that go around threatening people to stay quiet, to keep to them selves and to forget what happened if anything.

so i guess you could in a way say NASA isn't really bad... the country that started it however...is.

and while we have such people in command, we as a race will still be poking our planet like the apes we are said to be.

reply to post by Watts


After reading the replies, so far, I knew that such a topic is going to attract the forum loonies with the exception of Jim Oberg who will try, as he always does, to bring some sanity to the minds of the naysayers but it's delusional to think that he will reach sane minds. Look at the comments offered. Threats to families. Threats from the 3-letter federal agencies. Etc.

At best, NASA is an agency that, mostly, wastes tax dollars with little returns for the efforts and the loss of human lives and aborted missions alredy launched, and miscalculating figures as in the Hubble telescope. Actually, with all of the hoopla that accompanies success, NASA is really a bunch of F____s!

If they really were controlled to silence we wouldn't even see the videos that we do in all of their naked glory. We know that the videos contain unknowns that do not support the popular explanations of ice this, shuttle debris, that, etc. The NASA PTB cannot come out and state their inner beliefs because they cannot prove that what is seen in the videos is really alien. So they play a game and come up with different, faux explanations.

In my opinion, what I find worst about NASA is the dumb spokepeople that are seen in documentaries giving downright stupid reasons for what one sees. These spokepeople actually insult intelligence and you wonder what the hell they're seeing to come up with the stupid explanations.

Jim Oberg, none of my negative comments are about you so don't take umbrage.

reply to post by The Shrike


So you, and another person are the only two sane people afloat in these here waters? How refreshing that must be. I had heard that inflated egos can be a personal survival technique.

sorry if this comes across as a bit mean. Just returning inkind.

Given that NASA has to sleep in the same bed with the DoD by law, it does not surprise me that at times they must "tow the line" for their bedfellow and to lie.....still . I understand that, but where the practice fails is when one or the other keeps a secret from the public which should not be kept from the public. I do not have any knowledge about who points the moral compass for either organization, but obviously that particular job has landed in the wrong lap(s)...if it exists at all.

Things that all of us should know (as discovered by NASA) remain out of the public eye. We, as a country and as a civilization suffer for this. Taken to the ultimate extreme let me point out how technology has been greedily kept from benefiting all of us. We drive cars that run on oil we drain out of the ground just like we did 75 years ago.. We are led to think that getting thirty something miles to the gallon is something to be excited about. When the Ford Model A (?) came out, it got 25 miles to the gallon. Hmmmm. In 75 years, the best we've been able to do is to keep burning oil and the best improvement all of our great engineers have been able to get is roughly 10 mpg? Really? No, not really...just 'really' for you an I.

NASA has given us much technology, that is undeniable. But they have , at the same time, held much from us in terms of technology and discovery. You really have to think about people who will lie to their fellow countrymen when ordered to do so by their fellow countrymen. At what point do the needs of the citizenry become important enough for NASA employees to be honest with their own consciences as well as us, Jane & Joe Public? Secrecy, among other things, destroyed the Roman Empire and it sure didn't do any thing great shakes for the Soviet Union. Must we all go through what they went through in order to learn that valuable lesson? Really?

(Gosh, if the secret-keepers want amnesty, then for God's sake let's just give it to them and get on with the business of evolving already, OK? I can forgive alot as long as I can have the knowledge I need to have for my species to carry on.)

NASA has three levels of information...

1) The Public Info... prrtty pictures, dreams of future astronauts, imaginary missions

2) The Scientific access... the real papers, the real photos, the actual documents. These can be accessed by the public IF you know where to ask, who to ask and what to ask for...

For example I wanted a free copy of the Mars Methane report so I asked for it. Got my password to collect it from here (below) but could NOT browse available files



I also recently wrote to NASA NTRS (Nasa Technical Reports Server) to request a document that was not available online and was sent the code number to find it.

3) The secret government controlled access...

Simply look at the fine print on any NASA website at the bottom of the page... You will see one option:
Freedom of Information Act

On that page look for;
"A link is also included to the NASA FOIA Regulations, "Availability of Agency Records to Members of the Public" which will provide you with more detailed information concerning the processing of your FOIA request. "

AVAILABILITY OF AGENCY RECORDS TO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
Now that page will tell you what types of Info you can get as a member of the public... Look for;

Subpart 3--Exemptions

(b) The requirements of this part to make Agency records available do not apply to matters that are--
(1)
- (i) Specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive Order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and
- (ii) Are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive Order;
(2) Related solely to the internal personnel rules and practices of NASA;
(3) Specifically exempted from disclosure by statute (other than 5 U.S.C. 552), provided that such statute:
- (i) Requires that the matters be withheld from the public in such a manner as to leave no discretion on the issue, or
- (ii) Establishes particular criteria for withholding or refers to particular types of matters to be withheld;
(4) Trade secrets and commercial or financial information obtained from a person which is privileged or confidential;

So as #1 clearly shows, if the Government says its Secret, NASA is not obligated to tell Joe and Jane Public SQUAT

Hope that clears up the confuddlement

Now my question for all you 'truth seekers' out there in ATS land...

How many of you EVER go the extra mile and actual email or phone someone at NASA or a military site to ask real questions?

I am willing to bet I can count them on the 9 fingers I have left

Originally posted by zorgon
Now my question for all you 'truth seekers' out there in ATS land...

How many of you EVER go the extra mile and actual email or phone someone at NASA or a military site to ask real questions?

I am willing to bet I can count them on the 9 fingers I have left

edit on 29-2-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

I claim one of those fingers, then. For years, my some and I went to NASA using interfaces NASA provided the public in order to ask a couple of questions regarding the ISS. This started out innocently enough as a classroom project for grammar school students. What my son learned, for better or for worse, is that sometimes, when the government says they are looking to interact with the public they do not really mean it. In other words, they are insincere to the extreme which, in some quarters is called "lying."

The "ball" got passed off so many times over subsequent years that no one who was there at the beginning (at NASA) was there at the end when my son finally moved on, having given up. I felt ashamed of my country at that point. The situation embarrassed me. I had told him to expect good things for his efforts in this case. He got nothing. His questions were blatantly disregarded. No one at NASA had any intention of helping him in any way.

Secrecy at the top of an organization can have unintended effects farther down the line. Employees who get hired having a healthy and balanced notion of what official secrecy is and how it probably works gets replaced by paranoia and elitism ( I am on the inside, you are not. What I say -right or wrong- goes. What you say does not. If you push me to do the right thing I will push back and do the wrong thing because my mighty employer enjoys special legal privileges and , therefore, I can be rude and I can disregard your request completely. IF you still push, you will get even more of what you have gotten do far, just with a bit more flare and pomp.)

The secrecy at the top might be valid and in place for all the right reasons, but in all likelihood, those "up there" have long since become totally comfortable in their elitist skin and should an underling come along with a valid question from a valid source.. the entire effort will die on the office doorstep of the superior before so much as an ounce of effort has been put in to validate the original request. I have seen this sort of behavior first hand and I am sure many of you have, too.

IT's just so cool to be "in the know". How could anyone even think of compromising that envied place?

Originally posted by Malkuth
IT's just so cool to be "in the know". How could anyone even think of compromising that envied place?

That seems to be how most UFO believers feel -- their 'knowledge', pseudo- or otherwise, makes them feel morally and intellectually superior to people with real jobs that are hard, that need knowledge and discipline and real-time problem-solving skills. People in professions that punish carelessness and sloppiness in the ultimate extreme, in full view of the world? Like people at NASA, in other words.

Just out of curioisity, what sort of questions were given the run-around? Like, where's the bodies? Where's the secret transcripts and videos? Show me the secret blood oath of sworn deception you've all been subjected to? Those kinds of questions?

@Mr. Oberg

Yes, it is how many "UFO believers" happen to think. I agree with you. It is undoubtedly how many people think who could not care any less about UFOs either so I am not quite sure why you single out this particular subset.

Now, I can't help but notice the sorts of questions you imagine that my young son posed, but I will leave that alone for the time being. In particular, my son had wanted to know if the International Space Station had any sort of defense measures. If I recall properly he had heard one of my friends talking with me about something called "killer satellites". This , combined with the classroom project set things in motion. The other thing he had wondered was IF NASA happened to come across alien craft, whose job would it be to tell everyone.

I, for one, was proud of him for coming up with these. I did not want to spoil the integrity of what I had hoped would be a great experience for him by muddying any waters by interjecting my own UFO-believer-type questions.

Well, for years, he tried. He long forgot about the school project and moved on to higher grades, but it really got under his skin a bit that nobody would even hint at a reasonable or an appropriate response. (In fairness, I have to say my own frustration about it influenced him, I am sure.) I did try to help him, but I met with all the same brick wall sort of fun he had.

Let me be clear. I am pro NASA. The amount of technology we all enjoy because of the intellectual genius pool NASA assembled once upon a time is beyond measure in my view. But as I said, there are folks, otherwise great people I am sure, who like having the inside scoop. It doesn't matter what the info is, it is the ego that has such a great time of it. When it gets used to keep any other person "down" in any way it is simply the wrong thing to do. That is my opinion.

Originally posted by Malkuth
@Mr. Oberg

Yes, it is how many "UFO believers" happen to think. I agree with you. It is undoubtedly how many people think who could not care any less about UFOs either so I am not quite sure why you single out this particular subset.

Now, I can't help but notice the sorts of questions you imagine that my young son posed, but I will leave that alone for the time being. In particular, my son had wanted to know if the International Space Station had any sort of defense measures. If I recall properly he had heard one of my friends talking with me about something called "killer satellites". This , combined with the classroom project set things in motion. The other thing he had wondered was IF NASA happened to come across alien craft, whose job would it be to tell everyone.

I, for one, was proud of him for coming up with these. I did not want to spoil the integrity of what I had hoped would be a great experience for him by muddying any waters by interjecting my own UFO-believer-type questions.

Well, for years, he tried. He long forgot about the school project and moved on to higher grades, but it really got under his skin a bit that nobody would even hint at a reasonable or an appropriate response. (In fairness, I have to say my own frustration about it influenced him, I am sure.) I did try to help him, but I met with all the same brick wall sort of fun he had.

Let me be clear. I am pro NASA. The amount of technology we all enjoy because of the intellectual genius pool NASA assembled once upon a time is beyond measure in my view. But as I said, there are folks, otherwise great people I am sure, who like having the inside scoop. It doesn't matter what the info is, it is the ego that has such a great time of it. When it gets used to keep any other person "down" in any way it is simply the wrong thing to do. That is my opinion.

We may be closer than you realize in our view of NASA PR flacks. As a matter of pride, i'm the only journalist ever to be attacked by name in a NASA press release for 'wacko' ideas. And I tease them unmercifully about stuff they really ARE embarrassed about, particularly details of the US-Russian space partnership such as the guns the Russians are allowed to pack at the space station [in the Soyuz, not on their hips].

There already are stock pre-written answers for questions such as those you mentioned [in the FAQs file, I think], so it's surprising and a little dismaying your son didn't get them, at least.

When it comes to questions about anomalous visual events, however, in all the cases I'm familiar with, NASA asked some specialists to provide full explanations. They responded in some detail, and as far as I could tell, in full accuracy. Believers don't like the answers, but at least there were answers with supporting data.

I spent 22 years in the heart of Mission Control, on the front line of operational missions -- and I never came across any hint of anomalous phenomena whose existence was being concealed, or later lied about. Since i've been fascinated by the UFO phenomenon, even as 'merely' a cultural and sociological theme of tremendous significance [at the very least], from the mid-1950s, I was particularly interested in seeing how such stories might originate. There were a number of very ardent UFO believers on the team, at all levels of authority, and they had plenty of data to talk about, but all of it non-NASA origin.

One of these days I'm going to FOIA all the letters and responses re UFOs, just to see how thorough [or not] were such responses. Of course, anybody else could do it at any time... Might be interesting!.