Your 9/11 truth?

I am fairly new to ATS, but 9/11 is the reason I joined. I stumbled upon ATS researching 9/11. Someone told me "you are a dumb*** if you believe anything you've heard about 9/11." This got me thinking what do I actually believe. I knew there were holes in the OS, but in my opinion how big were those holes? When first stumbling upon ATS, I will be honest I was much more naive than I thought about 9/11. I'm still doing my own research, diving into different angels of the conspiracy.

I have spent ALOT of time reading threads, watching videos, and investigating websites people have suggested. However, when on ATS I feel as most debunk others ideas (which I understand is one of the main points of the website.) I have an understanding of what many members DON'T think happened. I'm creating this thread in the hopes of learning what you DO think happened. Who was behind the attack? Osama, the US, a combination? Do you believe plans hit the WTCs, the pentagon, the field in Pennsylvania? Who in the MSM knew originally, who knew later? etc.

Also, I was young when the attack happened. I was always a patriotic child, but after 9/11 I had nothing but the highest level of respect for America, something I wish I still had. For those of you who were older with more experience, did you originally think this was a false flag? If not, when did you start to believe something wasn't right? Lastly, if an attack like 9/11 happened tomorrow, what would be your first reaction.

I don't want this to be a thread bashing others opinions or trying to disprove anything. I'm sure I will not agree with what some of you say, but I thought though this thread could help me and others gain insight when reading others threads and posts. Also, hopefully steer me in a direction to learn more about the topic.

*I did not go back through 12 years of history, but I searched for a topic like this and did not find anything. A thread like this could go by many names though, so if I missed something I apologize and please remove this thread.

I'll come back and edit my opinion in soon

Israelis used set explosives and mind-controlled Saudi/Yemeni nationals to take down 3 buildings. The Pentagon being unprotected is the smoking gun that DoD allowed the attacks to happen in order to wage war against a phantom army.

I think I'm a lot like yourself. I was nine when the attacks occured, very shortly after my birthday. I remember being in school and all the teachers were freaking out. Next thing I remember was that idiot Bush getting on declaring war on terrorism and whatnot.

At the time I didn't think much of it, until I was about 14 or so. That's when I first started hearing about that Loose Change doco. I never took a side, because of that heated debate between the Loose Change folks, the MSM and those Popular Mechanics "experts". Hell I never really cared about the world as a whole until I was 16, then politics early last year.

Now, my position on this is:

The towers were hit by planes, remotely controlled of course, as well as being rigged with thermite. WTC 7 was a total controlled demo. The Pentagon was either hit by a missile or drone, but I'm really on the fence about it until they release the footage that is being withheld. As for the "plane" in Pennsylvania, it probably didn't even exist, and the "crater" was probably dug up or blasted to make it look like so.

My 9/11 truth? I made this thread about that very question...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Quite a roller coaster ride for a rookie, and the more you learn, the less you thought you knew.

My 911 is it happened pretty much the OS way.
To believe any other methods add greatly to the levels of complexity.
Complexity is not something the government is good at. And to keep it a secret is unheard of.
People talk, twitter, blog. People just want to tell the world everything they know, even the most trivial things.
Remember gun walking?
Remember 911 ashes this week?
Remember servicemen ashes last week?
Remember Clinton’s BJ and there were only two people involved?
Remember Deepthroats deathbed memoirs?
What about teachers and their students? It seems to be a yearly event in out area.
The American government can’t shut people up while they are alive let alone beyond the grave.
What about Wikileaks? They can’t shut that guy up. If you wanted to get the word out about 911 just give the info to that guy.
The US has enemies. Lots of them. If they had any scoop on 911 they would certainly release it in an effort to damage the reputation of the US government or even destabilize it.

And yet out of all these possible people and methods not one peep. Not one confession. Not one document. Not one video. Not one deathbed confession. The American government is just not capable of that level of silence.

The only place this conspiracy exists is in cyberspace. When you turn your computer off this conspiracy and truthers completely disappear.

Governments can't keep secrets?
Look up The Manhattan Project.
Regarding 9/11 -
Don't worry about finding the truth or discovering all the "facts", it won't happen.
We'll likely never know them due to the amount of destruction of evidence.
That should tell you something important.

Originally posted by Canned2na
The towers were hit by planes, remotely controlled of course, as well as being rigged with thermite. WTC 7 was a total controlled demo. The Pentagon was either hit by a missile or drone, but I'm really on the fence about it until they release the footage that is being withheld. As for the "plane" in Pennsylvania, it probably didn't even exist, and the "crater" was probably dug up or blasted to make it look like so.

I just felt like pointing out that it has been proven that igniting thermite on the surface of material does very little. It must be made into a pre-placed shape charge to have any effect, and then it functions like any other controlled demolition shape charge. I'm not as fresh on my info for the rest, so I won't comment on it. I just know quite a bit about thermite.

I can't help but feel that you are in your position based majorly on faith though. Almost all of those points are from speculation by people. It came from someone else's imagination as what they felt was an explanation that made sense. I would make sure to try to find data or any form of evidence to back up your position. It would really help everyone.

Originally posted by headorheart
I have spent ALOT of time reading threads, watching videos, and investigating websites people have suggested. However, when on ATS I feel as most debunk others ideas (which I understand is one of the main points of the website.) I have an understanding of what many members DON'T think happened. I'm creating this thread in the hopes of learning what you DO think happened. Who was behind the attack? Osama, the US, a combination? Do you believe plans hit the WTCs, the pentagon, the field in Pennsylvania? Who in the MSM knew originally, who knew later? etc.

Personally, my thoughts are...

-The attack was an actual attack by Islamic fundamentalists. Islamic fundamentalists have their fingerprints all over this whole affair, from airplane hijackings, murdering innocent civilians in terrorist attacks, suicide attacks, large scale orchestrated assaults, and blind devotion to religious ideology. It was only a matter of time that someone would come along and figure out a way to put all these together.

-Mohammed Atta was more sociopathic than religious, and was using Al Qaida to fulfill his desire to kill off lots of people more than Al Qaida was using him. I wouldn't even dismiss the idea he might have lied to most of the other hijackers and he led them to believe it was going to be a standard terrorist hijacking rather than a suicide attack.

-The gov't was caught napping on 9/11 out of a combination of being distracted by the war on drugs, touchy-feely political correctness, and outright incompetence. There is currently a coverup in the gov't of the fact because the gov't doesn't want to make itself look weak in front of an enemy, and because noone wants to come forward and admit they accidentally used a warning of an imminent attack as a placemat to eat their lunch at their desk and caused 3000 people to get killed.

-Because of these gov't coverups and many areas that we simply can't ever know about, hordes of lunatics and con artists are taking advantage of the vaccuum of information and are setting up shop to peddle all sorts of inane "sinister secret plots to take over the world" claims in order to get gullible people to buy their knicknaks. The reason why there are so many conflicting "sinister secret plots" of controlled demolitions, nukes in the basement, lasers from outer space, etc, is simply because different people are being suckered by different lunatics and/or con artists. Nobody, but nobody, would have watched the 9/11 attack unfold on TV and spontaneously wonder whether the plane was really a hologram. It had to have been one of those damned fool conspiracy web sites that suckered them into the idea.

I regret to say that despite your sincere wish to keep partisan bickering out of this thread, the truthers are going to turn this into yet another argument forum anyway. If it won't be from the truthers trying to get me to stop showing why their conspiracy theories are rubbish, it'll be from the "controlled demolitions" truthers trying to stop the "lasers from outer space" truthers and "hologram planes" truthers from stealing their show. It's blind devotion to a conspiracy ideology, and not a sincere effort to learn the facts of the 9/11 attack, which is the fuel that runs the conspiracy theorist engine.

It's 43 years after the Moon landing and the Laws of Physics do not give a damn about anybody or anything.

They don't care about the United States. They don't care about Israelis. They don't care about Islam and conspiracies.

The planes were less than 200 tons and had 10,000 gallons of jet fuel which would be 34 tons.

Skyscrapers must hold themselves up and withstand the wind. The WTC towers were supposed to sway 3 feet at the top in a 150 mph wind. Now after TEN YEARS you can't even get trustworthy data on the quantity of concrete in the towers. Some sources say as little as 100,000 tons. Sources from before 9/11 say 425,000 cubic yards which would be more than 300,000 tons per building.

But skyscrapers must be bottom heavy and the designers had to figure out how to distribute that steel and concrete. So the physics profession and structural engineers have made fools of themselves by not resolving this long ago. EVERYONE should have been demanding accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete. The Potential Energy of the building can't be computed without that. Yeah, there are various people who will make pronouncements about what it was, but 50 tons of steel on the 100th level has more potential energy than 50 tons on the 5th level. So if they can't say how much steel and how much concrete was where then how can they reasonably claim their Potential Energy calculation is correct?

I say there is no way those airliners starting fires could destroy those buildings that fast. So at the very least we have the problem of why the physics profession has not been demanding certain information about those buildings. So this brings up the whole social psychology of our engineering schools and their relationship to the government. 9/11 says many interesting things about our society.

psikeyhackr.livejournal.com...

psikeyhackr.livejournal.com...

That includes the issue of all of the people who need AUTHORITY to tell them what to think and regard anyone as stupid or crazy if they don't go along with the program. It is just so pathetic that this is all about a grade school physics problem.

This is the best movie I know of on the subject.

www.youtube.com...

psik

reply to post by psikeyhackr

Skyscrapers must hold themselves up and withstand the wind

They must first hold themselves together before they can "hold themselves up". Challenge the connections that hold them together than they can't do anything. Take the nails out of a house and you have a stack of lumber. Take the mortar out of brick wall and you have a pile of bricks.

You keep forgetting that and the fact that all the data you seek is in the report that you admittedly refuse to read.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Skyscrapers must hold themselves up and withstand the wind

They must first hold themselves together before they can "hold themselves up". Challenge the connections that hold them together than they can't do anything. Take the nails out of a house and you have a stack of lumber. Take the mortar out of brick wall and you have a pile of bricks.

You keep forgetting that and the fact that all the data you seek is in the report that you admittedly refuse to read.

So let's see you take the nails out of a house in less than two hours.

psik

reply to post by Canned2na
Thanks, Canned. You get it. Nearly all the 'boys' have chimed in already, so this thread will serve as a sufficiently good primer for those new to the discussion. You'll notice that there's not one thing new to be added to the debunkers case, which is their weakest link. My only solace in this whole bitter experience is the fact that I know for a fact, that these creeps that show up here day after day, attempting to derail the truth, don't sleep too well. Living and preaching a lie, is not very healthy.

a bunch of angry dudes who hate our freedom hijacked planes and slammed them into buildings it was flawed due to the patriotism of certain Americans who gave their own lives in lieu of being a human bomb.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Regarding 9/11 -
Don't worry about finding the truth or discovering all the "facts", it won't happen.
We'll likely never know them due to the amount of destruction of evidence.
That should tell you something important.

That seems to be the most common thread in nearly every potential conspiracy; destruction of the trail of evidence.

Along with 9.11, there's other excellent examples out there, most notably the JFK assassination. The result is that here almost a half century later, there is still no reconciliation of events never satisfactorily detailed and explained.

I agree. 9.11 will be the exact same thing and in 2051, they'll know no more than we do today.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by Canned2na

 

Thanks, Canned. You get it. Nearly all the 'boys' have chimed in already, so this thread will serve as a sufficiently good primer for those new to the discussion. You'll notice that there's not one thing new to be added to the debunkers case, which is their weakest link. My only solace in this whole bitter experience is the fact that I know for a fact, that these creeps that show up here day after day, attempting to derail the truth, don't sleep too well. Living and preaching a lie, is not very healthy.

Would you stop being so paranoid? Most of the people here are just trying to get to the truth of the matter. You just keep rambling on about how everyone is trying to mess up facts by purposefully being against you. That's really not how it's going. The "debunkers" are trying to filter out the crap theories based on ridiculous assumptions so that you guys can move onto theories that are based in fact.

reply to post by psikeyhackr

So let's see you take the nails out of a house in less than two hours.

Lets see you make a skyscraper "hold itself up" without connections.

I know you don't understand engineering or construction, but this is very basic stuff.

reply to post by Varemia
Not sleeping too well? I know what I read, and I have yet to see one debunker, give me one reason to believe what they regurgitate here, day in and day out. The OP asked for our opinions on this matter, and I've offered mine, so climb back up on your imagined 'fence', and don't call me paranoid because I don't like liars.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by Varemia

 

Not sleeping too well? I know what I read, and I have yet to see one debunker, give me one reason to believe what they regurgitate here, day in and day out. The OP asked for our opinions on this matter, and I've offered mine, so climb back up on your imagined 'fence', and don't call me paranoid because I don't like liars.

Just read your own post. It's like the definition of paranoia. I know you don't believe anything but your own view of things, but it just doesn't make sense that you think everyone is just against you for no good reason. It reminds me of all those crazy conspiracy people in the movies.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

So let's see you take the nails out of a house in less than two hours.

Lets see you make a skyscraper "hold itself up" without connections.

I know you don't understand engineering or construction, but this is very basic stuff.

Why should I? I never said a skyscraper did not have connections.

Let's see you make connections in a skyscraper fail due to fire in an area of the building where there is no fire.

psik

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Governments can't keep secrets?
Look up The Manhattan Project.
Regarding 9/11 -
Don't worry about finding the truth or discovering all the "facts", it won't happen.
We'll likely never know them due to the amount of destruction of evidence.
That should tell you something important.

That's rather an unrealistic attitude. By Richard Gage's own admission, he has the formula of the explosives that were supposed to have been used, he has the blueprints of the towers, he has miles of video footage of the collapse taken from every conceivable angle, he has 1,500 supposed experts in the fields of physics, demilitions, engineering, and others, AND he has enough disposable cash to be making movie after movie that pushes his controlled demolitions claims. It would take him and his bunch about a month to hold his OWN investigation and reverse engineer exactly how controlled demeolitions were used to bring down the towers in the way we all saw- their exact placement, the area in the buildings that needed to be compromised, how much explosives were needed, how their detonations were coordinated with each other, all of that. He wouldn't even need to explain how the demolitions got into the building. Once he mapped out where the demolitions were placed in the building he would irrefutably prove conspiracy...BUT, he isn't doing this. How do you explain this?

The explanation *I* see is that Gage knows what he's peddling is just conspiracy snake oil and trying to calculate out how controlled demolitions brought down the towers is akin to trying to prove two plus two equals five, so he simply spins his "witnesses heard explosions" innuendo while collecting his speaking fees. You're right when you say we won't see any new information. It isn't in the best interest of the truthers.